Wine and The White House. Fascinating. The Authority; Fred Ryan.

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Carson Leno,

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Fallon. Now it's

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wine talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are at home in Monroe

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about to have a conversation with Fred. Frederick J. Ryan out.

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Where are you at right now? I'm in Washington, DC. In Washington, DC.

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Introductions in just a moment. Wine talks, of course, available on iHeartRadio, Pandora,

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Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink

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responsibly. Be 21 since we have

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Mister Ryan on the show today, I wanted to alert my

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listeners to a show I have with my father because his, his story is going

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to come up in a minute as we talk about wine in the White House.

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And my dad sat down with me just

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before he passed about two years before, and started to tell the stories of

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being a Trojan, about coming to America from Cairo and how

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he got into the wine business, which is what we're going to talk about today.

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So that show is up. And also have a conversation about

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Angela McCray, who's now the CEO of the association of

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African American Vendors. And we just got back from their show in Napa

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Valley. It was incredible opportunity to meet the African American

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Vendors association and the members and the wines they're making. So have a listen to

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that, but not why we're here. We're here to have a conversation with Frederick J.

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Ryan, the author of the book Wine in the White House

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a History. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Paul. Great to be with

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you. You know, this not I was trying to figure out what you do every

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day today cause you were Trojans together. We'll talk about that.

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But what would you say today is your title today?

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I'm chairman of the Ronald Reagan Presidential foundation and Institute

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based in Washington, DC. But we also have the presidential library out in Los

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Angeles. You know, we were talking about our relationship with our friend Mister

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Yankee, and I brought your name up the other day at breakfast.

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I have a breakfast club on Tuesday mornings to a political

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operative friend of mine and I said, I'm having a conversation with the guy

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that is at the Reagan Foundation. I said, frederick J. Ryan. He goes, oh,

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yeah, for sure. Everybody knows him. I'm like, wow,

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you've gotten around the political world. But you said something very interesting in the first

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page of your book. I found myself in the White

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House. How does one just find themselves in the White House? Like,

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you left college. Yeah. I wasn't just taking the

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tour. Maybe I should clarify that I had

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graduated from USC, as we were talking about earlier, as fellow Trojans, and went out

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of law school. And during the course of that time, I met then

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former governor Ronald Reagan. And this was even before he

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announced he was going to be running for president. I met him at a reception

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in Santa Monica, and here I was, a law student, and

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I introduced myself, started talking to him, and I just found that this guy

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was really paying attention to me. It felt like an hour. It was probably

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20 minutes. So here I am, a student, and I was just very

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impressed with him. And I said, I understand you might run

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for president, and if you do, I'd like to volunteer on your campaign.

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And sure enough, six months or so later, he announced he was running

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for president. And I walked down to the headquarters and said, I'd like to

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volunteer. And one thing led to the next, and next thing, I was

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traveling across the country with him and working as an advanced man

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in different states during the election. When the election was

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over, he offered me a role to come and work in the White House, and

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that led to me just kind of finding myself there, as you said,

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paul. So actually, the way I found you, because I

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saw a video discussing wines of the White House

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cellar and sort of the history of pouring wine on a video.

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And it took me a little while to find the contact information, but I

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think it was under a bar association listing of some

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sort. And were you pursuing

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a lot of gree? I mean, I lost a career. Yeah. You're very

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resourceful, Paul. You found me. I went to law

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school, took the bar, passed the bar, and then went to work shortly after that

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in the White House. And I'm still a member of the bar, but I would

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strongly urge you and your listeners not to seek any legal advice

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from you. Darn that. That cuts out half the podcast

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right there. I thought I was going to get into some of this. Well, it's

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a very funny story that you told and why we're here today, which is

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you must have been taking a sorority girl on a date, because

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any sae, or sleeping, as we call you,

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would, would do. And he went to the derby,

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which is a famed restaurant in Los Angeles known for its chili and

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Groucho Marx visiting quite often. And

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you ordered a bottle of wine against the sommelier's recommendation.

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That's right. I guess we all have a story about what really

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caused us to dive into wine. And

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you're describing the wine for me. I was a

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student at USC, and there was a woman I was trying to impress on a

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first date. You know, if I didn't impress her, she'd probably date Steve Yonke, and

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then I would never be. But. So I

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made all the arrangements. I thought, what would be a great restaurant? The Brown Derby.

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You know, I heard that this role, the movie stars hung out.

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I went in the restaurant, picked her up, we drove there, sat

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down, and they gave me the menu and the wine list,

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and we decided, we're going to have prime rib. That was the special of the

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house. And by the way, the stuff about the movie stars, that had been a

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decade or two before, back in the area, there weren't any movie stars, at least

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any that we could recognize there. But then they brought me the wine

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list. I looked at it, and all I saw were very

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long french names, and not speaking a word of French, I picked the

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shortest one. It was called Chateau d'arche. Garch.

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And I said, I'll have the chateau d

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arch. And Sonoye said, no, I don't think that's the

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wine you want. I said, no, wait. I always have that. And he goes, with

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your prime rib? I said, yes, I always have that wine with my prime rib,

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trying to impress my date. So sure enough, they bring us the prime rib.

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Then they come out with this chilled bottle of dessert,

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sauternes, chateau d'Arche, and they pour it in both of our glasses.

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And even my date, who didn't know much about wine, knew that I had really

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screwed that up.

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Like I said, how do we all get into wine? I was going to

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go try to learn about wine, and I signed up for wine classes at USC.

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You may have been in there, the seat next to me, but learned about wine

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there, and then started making trips up the Napa valley. And that was kind of

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the beginning of my interest. Well, I was a beta, so we didn't really have

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wine. You were drinking milk. That was milk at the beta house, right.

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It was always, whether or not you're gonna have a keg of beer at the

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chapter meeting was my decision as the president. But that's a great story

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because. And I looked it up. I didn't know. The wine certainly understand Saturn, but

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it's a grand cru Southern. So this, you're. You're some. That was some serious stuff.

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And certainly with the sugar content of Saturn, you're

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probably not going to do well with the prime rib. I mean, did you ever

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date the girl again or. No, that was a one and done.

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So that's kind of a fun story to jump off into the wine part

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of this, because you've written the book wine and the White House

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a history, and I've been through most of it,

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fascinated by the stories, the accuracy, and I have a story to

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tell about my dad and Queen Elizabeth, but.

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So you decided not. Maybe it was embarrassment, maybe

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you just thought, wow, this is so interesting that I was so far off that

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I got to figure out what this is. And you just started

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studying it and tasting and purveying it.

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Yeah, I think that maybe the combination of the embarrassment got me started.

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But then I think, like so many people who enjoy wine, as you get into

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it, you learn more. You learn about the regions, the

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varieties. Just, you can find like minded people who

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also like to share a glass of wine and

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talk about new discoveries they have. So I just found myself getting more and more

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interested. And, of course, going to USC, going every year up

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for that northern California game against Tyler Berkeley,

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we would all tie in a visit to the wine country while we were there.

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So that made it very convenient as well. It's a lot different than it was

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then today, that's for sure. So this became, then a

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pursuit, and you've been involved with the politics

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and that part of the world for most of your

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career. Was this an ongoing pursuit where,

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you know, you continue to taste, you continue to read, you continue to study, you

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traveled, and all of a sudden, now you're consumed with

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learning more? Well, it did. It was an interest that

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I continued to enjoy. I came to Washington, which kind of gave

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me new opportunities. Cause it's a very international city.

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Even at that time, California wine was not really the dominant wine

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here. It was still french and other

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imports, because all the embassies are in Washington. There's

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170 embassies. So there are so many different restaurants that reflect

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different types of cuisine and the wines of those countries. And

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so that was a way to learn a little more. A second thing was

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that Ronald Reagan, who I was working for, had been the governor of

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California at the time that the California wine industry

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was really coming of age and had a deep interest in wine.

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Going back to his movie star days, he had

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got pneumonia, and he went to his doctor, and once he

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recovered, and the doctor said, you know, if you drink a glass of wine every

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day, it'll probably be good for you. And at that time,

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Ronald Reagan come from the midwest and didn't really know a lot about

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wine, but he started studying it and learned about french wines. And this is back

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when he was in his late thirties, then he became governor of California,

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when the Mondavis and all the big

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kings of California wine were just emerging.

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And he did a lot to advance the California wine trade, and he got to

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know people in the business, so he brought that knowledge. So here I'm working for

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somebody, albeit at that time at a fairly junior level, who

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had a great interest in wine. And then the third thing was,

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I don't know if I mentioned this book, but I would go into, on

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Saturday mornings, I would go into a place called Addie Basson's

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MacArthur liquors in Washington, DC. And it was kind of the place that wine

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interested people go and you taste a few wines. And there was this guy who

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would, most Saturdays would be there sitting at the counter with his

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brown printed reviews of wine. Robert Parker.

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Wow. And he was based here, and was.

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He was from Moncton, Maryland, just out near Baltimore. And he

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wasn't of the, you know, they've called him the emperor of wine. He wasn't, he

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hadn't quite arrived to that level yet, but he was a very knowledgeable person. So

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we would get to hear his ratings on wine and buy a couple bottles.

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So all those things kind of, to answer your question, all of

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those things kind of led to my increased interest in wine.

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Well, I'm going to talk about this toward the end of the show. We're going

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to talk about the contemporary issues that face the wine industry, because

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there's plenty. Consumerism is a mess.

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Online sales are diving. And I think it's

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going back to. I really believe it's going back to the experience that you're having,

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where you have these face to face handshake tastings,

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where you get to learn the stories and have the thing. But I'm going to

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tell you a quick story, and then we're going to talk about wine in the

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White House. My father invented the idea of wine in the mail

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in 1972, but prior to that, in 1959,

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he was reading the LA Times at his

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pharmacy in Inglewood, where he started his career as a

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pharmacist. And it was announced that Queen Elizabeth was coming,

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and President Eisenhower was pouring a Krug special

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select. And my dad

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calls his Lions club friend, who owns the liquor stores, which is not a

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wine shop, but he gets him a case of, I think it was the 56

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or the 58 or something. And I

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got to researching to validate my dad's story. Now, I'm

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pretty confident, my dad's very confident about the idea that he was staying at this

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pharmacy, and he was reading the LA Times. And I found the article in the

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LA Times through the archives, but it

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turns out it looked like he did pour this Charles Crueg Cabernet for

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the queen. But it wasn't a state dinner, and it wasn't until, I think, Lyndon

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Johnson poured the same wine, actually, at a state dinner for, I don't know,

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Pakistan or something like that. So is there any accuracy to the idea that

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they might have started pouring american wines, you

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know, before the state dinners, like more like at lunchtime or some other

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kind of meeting? Yeah. It's interesting to

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look at the history of California wines. And as you know, there was a whole

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evolution over the years, George Washington's time up to the present, of

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what varieties were served, where they were from, which countries,

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and then, of course, american wines. And in the Eisenhower

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administration, they did start. But the very, very first

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time that I could find any connection of California wine with the

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White House goes all the way back to Abraham Lincoln.

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Wow. In 1864, he

225
00:13:42,330 --> 00:13:45,066
was sent a case of California wine,

226
00:13:45,250 --> 00:13:48,922
1859 vintage from a guy he'd appointed

227
00:13:49,018 --> 00:13:52,634
to a presidential appointment up in San Francisco. I think it was the commissioner of

228
00:13:52,634 --> 00:13:56,402
the San Francisco Bay. And as a gesture of gratitude, he sent him this kind

229
00:13:56,418 --> 00:14:00,226
of unique gift, California wine. Who'd heard of that? Now, I don't know if Lincoln

230
00:14:00,250 --> 00:14:03,138
drank it, and he didn't drink much anyway, so I don't know what happened to

231
00:14:03,146 --> 00:14:05,786
that wine, but I knew it reached the White House. But that's all the way

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00:14:05,810 --> 00:14:08,814
back in 1864, if you fast forward

233
00:14:09,394 --> 00:14:13,234
to the time you were talking about, we had prohibition, and that

234
00:14:13,274 --> 00:14:17,026
eliminated most of the production of american wine. And

235
00:14:17,050 --> 00:14:20,586
then we had world War two, and that eliminated the importation of wine.

236
00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:24,058
So we found ourselves, after the war, kind of in this

237
00:14:24,106 --> 00:14:27,498
Truman Eisenhower era, as a cocktail

238
00:14:27,546 --> 00:14:31,346
nation. Cocktails were more popular drinks at the

239
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:34,994
time, but the White House, following the traditions, would

240
00:14:35,034 --> 00:14:38,450
still serve very fine wines to distinguished

241
00:14:38,482 --> 00:14:42,222
visitors. We were. This tradition early in our history began,

242
00:14:42,278 --> 00:14:45,142
and we wanted to have to show the rest of the world that we'd arrived.

243
00:14:45,198 --> 00:14:48,550
We had a beautiful mansion, the White House. We had

244
00:14:48,622 --> 00:14:52,318
incredible art on the wall. We had this amazing glassware,

245
00:14:52,366 --> 00:14:55,582
the decanters and the glasses. With the presidential seals and all the

246
00:14:55,598 --> 00:14:59,286
engraving. And we wanted to serve great wines, so we continue to

247
00:14:59,310 --> 00:15:02,790
serve wines. But just as you've identified, american

248
00:15:02,862 --> 00:15:06,702
wines had not yet arrived and they didn't have the prestige

249
00:15:06,838 --> 00:15:09,934
that Bordeaux's had and Burgundy's had.

250
00:15:10,054 --> 00:15:13,638
So Eisenhower would serve them, but he wouldn't serve it at the

251
00:15:13,686 --> 00:15:17,366
main event. He would serve a first growth Bordeaux,

252
00:15:17,390 --> 00:15:21,118
maybe at the state dinner, but when a head of state comes, there are other

253
00:15:21,166 --> 00:15:24,318
events. There's often a lunch, there's a reciprocal dinner.

254
00:15:24,446 --> 00:15:28,070
And those were times where the president would have a chance to

255
00:15:28,102 --> 00:15:31,894
serve, maybe as a bit of a novelty, an american wine

256
00:15:31,934 --> 00:15:35,474
to a visiting, distinguished guest. That is

257
00:15:35,594 --> 00:15:39,434
so fascinating, because looking at the list for the listeners, this book is fabulous.

258
00:15:39,474 --> 00:15:42,506
It's heavy, but it's got amazing

259
00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:46,210
dossiers of the menus and the wine served with the

260
00:15:46,242 --> 00:15:49,414
food and who served it, and some handwritten notes next to those

261
00:15:49,794 --> 00:15:53,466
vintages. It was just fascinating to see the burgundies and, I mean, I just

262
00:15:53,490 --> 00:15:57,226
saw somebody was pouring in echoes. I mean, it's amazing to see that and

263
00:15:57,250 --> 00:16:00,454
how important it is for the culture of the White House.

264
00:16:00,914 --> 00:16:03,814
You may not put that together, but it seems rather

265
00:16:05,314 --> 00:16:08,978
indicative of what a president might have thought about estate

266
00:16:09,026 --> 00:16:12,226
dinner, how involved they got with choosing the

267
00:16:12,250 --> 00:16:15,746
wines, how they wanted to impress a

268
00:16:15,770 --> 00:16:19,250
particular guest with a particular wine. And yes,

269
00:16:19,442 --> 00:16:23,146
it is a litany of who's who in the wine business, particularly the french wines.

270
00:16:23,290 --> 00:16:26,882
But what I find fascinating, and this, you can shed some light on this, as

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00:16:26,898 --> 00:16:30,402
I was looking at some of the american wines poured, that became more

272
00:16:30,578 --> 00:16:34,282
regular. Almaden, blanc de Blanc. I mean, we sold out my

273
00:16:34,298 --> 00:16:38,050
dad's liquor store, you know, Ingle, Nick Chardet, which you

274
00:16:38,082 --> 00:16:41,794
probably still have some pedigree, Louis Martini, Cabernet. All these brands

275
00:16:41,914 --> 00:16:45,254
have become these huge mainstream corporate brands now.

276
00:16:46,154 --> 00:16:49,922
Are they pouring more boutique things now? It's kind

277
00:16:49,938 --> 00:16:53,170
of evolved. If you were to look back, as we're talking about

278
00:16:53,202 --> 00:16:56,996
Eisenhower, and then you got to say the Kennedy administration, as you

279
00:16:57,020 --> 00:17:00,740
know, with Jacqueline Kennedy, really focused on so many

280
00:17:00,772 --> 00:17:04,596
things. French, french food, french design. In the

281
00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:08,052
White House, there was a big emphasis on french wine.

282
00:17:08,228 --> 00:17:11,676
And if any of us could go back in time and pick a state dinner

283
00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:15,532
that we wanted to attend, based on the wine served, I would urge going to

284
00:17:15,548 --> 00:17:19,284
the Kennedy dinner, because they were first growth Bordeaux, Chateau Margaux,

285
00:17:19,324 --> 00:17:23,060
Chateaubriand Lafitte, Mouton. It

286
00:17:23,092 --> 00:17:26,882
was Latour. And then, as you mentioned, the

287
00:17:26,898 --> 00:17:30,746
Grand Cru Burgundies. And at that time, they were serving

288
00:17:30,810 --> 00:17:34,626
the best wines in the world. They were serving wines that today are over

289
00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:38,218
$1,000 a bottle. It's evolved now to the point

290
00:17:38,266 --> 00:17:41,946
where the presidents don't try to serve necessarily the most expensive

291
00:17:42,010 --> 00:17:45,794
wine they want at a state dinner. They want to showcase great

292
00:17:45,834 --> 00:17:49,610
things about America. So they might have a great chef come

293
00:17:49,642 --> 00:17:53,034
in and prepare a meal. They'll have great entertainment. They'll invite interesting

294
00:17:53,074 --> 00:17:56,798
people, and then they'll pick a wine that showcases just great

295
00:17:56,846 --> 00:18:00,430
american winemaking. It won't necessarily be occult wine. It'll

296
00:18:00,462 --> 00:18:03,550
certainly be a wine that meets the standards. So no guests would be offended and

297
00:18:03,582 --> 00:18:07,206
they would enjoy it. But it's not the most expensive star

298
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:11,094
wines. It's often new discoveries or wines that

299
00:18:11,134 --> 00:18:14,274
have a connection to the guest. For example,

300
00:18:14,574 --> 00:18:18,326
if italian prime minister is coming, they might serve an

301
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:22,114
american wine, or they would serve an american wine, but it might be made by

302
00:18:22,194 --> 00:18:24,814
an italian winemaker who lives in the United States.

303
00:18:26,034 --> 00:18:29,586
And this goes back. Actually, Ronald Reagan is the one who began

304
00:18:29,650 --> 00:18:33,018
this. He had the prime minister of France,

305
00:18:33,186 --> 00:18:36,906
Jacques Chirac, who had been a longtime friend of his. They

306
00:18:36,930 --> 00:18:40,650
knew each other well, and they both had interest in wine. And Jacques

307
00:18:40,682 --> 00:18:43,738
Chirac. Ronald Reagan had invited him to come to the White House for a state

308
00:18:43,786 --> 00:18:47,090
dinner. So this is like the superpower of wine is

309
00:18:47,122 --> 00:18:50,780
coming. What do you serve? How do you manage that? So

310
00:18:50,892 --> 00:18:54,196
he didn't want to offend his guests, but he wanted to also showcase great american

311
00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:57,748
wine. So he chose opus one joint

312
00:18:57,796 --> 00:19:01,332
venture. That's right. Rothschild and Robert Margaret.

313
00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:03,584
So both sides could claim victory.

314
00:19:04,964 --> 00:19:08,788
That's a very political decision. I love that. You

315
00:19:08,796 --> 00:19:12,580
know, it's interesting you just said this. I'm wondering. Cause I don't think in my

316
00:19:12,612 --> 00:19:15,220
career, and I think we talked about a little bit what I've done in tasting

317
00:19:15,252 --> 00:19:19,102
wines every Tuesday for 35 years, have anybody come to me and

318
00:19:19,118 --> 00:19:22,214
said, oh, we're there, poured this at the White House. I mean, I saw Claude

319
00:19:22,254 --> 00:19:25,798
Vallo been poured. Certainly we talked about some of those other things, but

320
00:19:25,966 --> 00:19:29,798
I wonder, is it forbidden to talk about what's poured, even though

321
00:19:29,806 --> 00:19:33,254
it's public record? If your wine

322
00:19:33,294 --> 00:19:36,794
is poured in the White House, you are.

323
00:19:39,014 --> 00:19:42,574
It won't be poured again if you become aggressive in the marketing,

324
00:19:42,654 --> 00:19:46,450
really. But they allow you to

325
00:19:46,602 --> 00:19:50,170
showcase that it's been done. For example, a great example is

326
00:19:50,282 --> 00:19:53,594
Stromsburg sparkling wine. That wine, by the way,

327
00:19:53,634 --> 00:19:57,266
has been served by more presidents than any other wine,

328
00:19:57,410 --> 00:20:00,954
and it's been served at state dinners. It was originally served by

329
00:20:00,994 --> 00:20:04,730
Richard Nixon, who was very knowledgeable about wine, and

330
00:20:04,802 --> 00:20:08,322
he brought it when he did that first trip that opened China,

331
00:20:08,498 --> 00:20:12,224
he wanted to bring appropriate bottle of wine. So he brought.

332
00:20:12,264 --> 00:20:14,776
It was 1972. The trip took place. He brought a

333
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,728
1969 vintage of

334
00:20:17,816 --> 00:20:21,584
Stromsburg Blanc de Blanc, and every single president

335
00:20:21,664 --> 00:20:25,496
since then has served it. Now, they don't advertise as the wine of the

336
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,724
presidents, and that would probably cause the White House to

337
00:20:29,224 --> 00:20:32,936
retreat a little bit. But if you go into Stromsburg, they've

338
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,736
got a beautiful museum, basically, that shows the history of

339
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,008
their wine being served at all these important occasions. And they have the menus on

340
00:20:40,016 --> 00:20:43,366
the wall. So they strike a balance of letting the

341
00:20:43,390 --> 00:20:47,142
winemaker express their pride in being chosen by the president of the United

342
00:20:47,198 --> 00:20:50,470
States to have their wine served. But they don't want you to be

343
00:20:50,502 --> 00:20:54,326
aggressively marketing off of it. I remember that my

344
00:20:54,350 --> 00:20:57,494
father's store carried it. I was

345
00:20:57,654 --> 00:21:01,318
teenager. But we told that story.

346
00:21:01,446 --> 00:21:04,514
We told the story. This is the wine that Nixon took to China.

347
00:21:05,534 --> 00:21:09,372
And I think that year of the seventies, you're talking about 72, and,

348
00:21:09,508 --> 00:21:12,344
of course, the judgment of Paris. We'll talk about that in 76.

349
00:21:13,364 --> 00:21:16,104
Changed the landscape for american wine.

350
00:21:17,244 --> 00:21:21,036
You go back to 1859, I was trying to figure out. I don't

351
00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:24,748
think Napa was really doing much. They just sort of started then.

352
00:21:24,796 --> 00:21:27,964
Most of the wine was coming from Los Angeles at that point, or just before

353
00:21:28,044 --> 00:21:31,556
that. And fascinated to hear that Abraham Lincoln received a

354
00:21:31,580 --> 00:21:35,310
case. You wonder if it was palatable. That's what I wanted to know.

355
00:21:35,422 --> 00:21:38,954
I don't know. That would be a serious question.

356
00:21:39,454 --> 00:21:43,206
But it's funny. I put the receipt. I found a copy of

357
00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:46,990
the record of that wine being shipped to the White House. I

358
00:21:47,022 --> 00:21:49,446
put that receipt in the book so you could see it all the way back

359
00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:53,286
to Abraham Lincoln's time. That's why the book, Paul, that's why the book is

360
00:21:53,390 --> 00:21:57,022
over 450 pages and weighs six pounds.

361
00:21:57,158 --> 00:22:00,848
Just because no book has ever been done on this subject.

362
00:22:00,976 --> 00:22:04,600
And I started off doing this with a much more modest idea in

363
00:22:04,632 --> 00:22:08,280
mind. And it was, I think, as you know, it was published with

364
00:22:08,352 --> 00:22:12,040
all the proceeds. 100% of every penny in the price goes to the

365
00:22:12,072 --> 00:22:15,368
educational fund of the White House Historical association.

366
00:22:15,536 --> 00:22:19,264
So I decided, as I did this, I kept finding more and more

367
00:22:19,304 --> 00:22:22,832
information, things that I'd never heard of, never seen before. And I thought, if this

368
00:22:22,848 --> 00:22:26,456
is the only book, I better put it in there. And things like. I was

369
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,272
talking to the proprietor of Chateau Vikim,

370
00:22:30,448 --> 00:22:34,112
which, as you know, is one of the great wines of the world. Saturn

371
00:22:34,168 --> 00:22:37,528
Laton. Been around for pure, pure Laton.

372
00:22:37,576 --> 00:22:41,192
Yes. And it's been around for hundreds of

373
00:22:41,248 --> 00:22:44,256
years. I was talking to him about this book because I've gotten to know him

374
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,608
over the years. And he said, and I was talking about the presidents. And he

375
00:22:47,616 --> 00:22:50,880
said, oh, I have a letter from Thomas Jefferson on my

376
00:22:50,912 --> 00:22:54,406
desk. And I said, well, that's kind of interesting. I don't think too many of

377
00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:57,126
us can say we have letters from Thomas Jefferson on our desk and what's it

378
00:22:57,150 --> 00:23:00,830
say? And can I have a copy of it? And he gave a copy and

379
00:23:00,862 --> 00:23:03,754
put the book. And this is when Jefferson

380
00:23:04,334 --> 00:23:08,046
was advising George Washington, who'd just been

381
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:11,766
president of the United States. And Jefferson writes to Shatoh Kim and he

382
00:23:11,790 --> 00:23:15,590
said, our new president, general Washington, has an interest in

383
00:23:15,622 --> 00:23:19,446
wine and I think he would like yours. And he goes on to

384
00:23:19,470 --> 00:23:22,718
say, so please send him 30 dozen

385
00:23:22,766 --> 00:23:26,534
bottles. And while you're at it, send me ten dozen

386
00:23:26,574 --> 00:23:30,358
bottles as well. So first president of the United

387
00:23:30,406 --> 00:23:34,070
States, and here's his emissary to France,

388
00:23:34,182 --> 00:23:37,606
obtaining chateau Ykim for him to enjoy. That's a fascinating

389
00:23:37,670 --> 00:23:41,390
story, and particularly a Saturn,

390
00:23:41,422 --> 00:23:44,986
which is just for the listeners, very sweet wine

391
00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:48,890
and very expensive wine because it made from molded and

392
00:23:48,922 --> 00:23:52,746
dried grapes. So the juice content is pretty low. Let's talk about Thomas Jefferson

393
00:23:52,770 --> 00:23:56,202
a minute, because I had Anne parent

394
00:23:56,378 --> 00:24:00,050
on my show years ago, and it's a biodynamic

395
00:24:00,082 --> 00:24:03,626
farm in Burgundy, Pomar and things like

396
00:24:03,650 --> 00:24:07,218
that. And she said that Thomas Jefferson was there and brought

397
00:24:07,266 --> 00:24:11,066
home her cuttings, her parents or her great grandparents cuttings. Is

398
00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:14,354
that, are you aware of that? And then was that his

399
00:24:15,254 --> 00:24:18,998
soiree into the wine world? Because even at the african

400
00:24:19,046 --> 00:24:22,790
american wine tasting I went to two weeks ago, there were four wineries there

401
00:24:22,822 --> 00:24:26,234
from Virginia. I've tasted many virginian wines and

402
00:24:26,734 --> 00:24:30,526
there's actually decent wines. But was that what

403
00:24:30,550 --> 00:24:32,474
his sort of personal

404
00:24:34,414 --> 00:24:38,198
travels brought him to do and see if he could make it work? And I

405
00:24:38,206 --> 00:24:41,324
know he had trouble doing it the first time around. Well, he went

406
00:24:41,984 --> 00:24:45,704
here. He gets dispatched to Paris as our emissary there,

407
00:24:45,784 --> 00:24:48,976
and he finds Benjamin Franklin there before him

408
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,456
and sees that Benjamin Franklin already has kind

409
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,296
of discovered the world of french wine and french food and has a

410
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,248
cellar with more than 2000 bottles in it. So

411
00:24:59,296 --> 00:25:03,096
Jefferson starts to learn from him. But then, being very curious

412
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,814
on his own, he goes out and tours the wine regions

413
00:25:06,944 --> 00:25:10,454
of France and Italy. He went through Burgundy,

414
00:25:10,874 --> 00:25:14,594
he went through Bordeaux. He even did his own ranking.

415
00:25:14,674 --> 00:25:18,018
As you know, the famous 1855 classification

416
00:25:18,186 --> 00:25:21,894
had the five different levels, premier crew.

417
00:25:22,194 --> 00:25:25,850
He made his own ranking and he had four out of the

418
00:25:25,882 --> 00:25:29,666
five that were technical that was 75 years later. He had

419
00:25:29,690 --> 00:25:33,414
Margot Aubrion, he had Lafitte and Latour,

420
00:25:34,594 --> 00:25:38,346
the top four. And then it wasn't for another 75 years that that official ranking

421
00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:42,170
took place. But he traveled, he tasted them, he got to know the

422
00:25:42,202 --> 00:25:46,026
proprietors, he made copious notes. And then when he

423
00:25:46,050 --> 00:25:49,834
returned, he knew how to try to get wines and have them shipped over.

424
00:25:49,874 --> 00:25:52,654
But I don't know that he brought back

425
00:25:52,994 --> 00:25:56,674
those cuttings from

426
00:25:56,794 --> 00:26:00,494
Burgundy. I do know once he was president

427
00:26:00,574 --> 00:26:03,694
and we left the office of presidency and he went to

428
00:26:03,774 --> 00:26:07,542
Monticello, his country home, where he was going to retire, he

429
00:26:07,598 --> 00:26:11,134
tried to plant grapes and grow wine. And he

430
00:26:11,174 --> 00:26:14,994
had this guy from Italy,

431
00:26:15,694 --> 00:26:19,462
Philippe Mazet, whose family, as you know, they've been in the

432
00:26:19,478 --> 00:26:23,230
wine business now 26 generations. Wow. And he had

433
00:26:23,382 --> 00:26:27,008
cuttings brought over and they tried to grow the grapes, but

434
00:26:27,126 --> 00:26:30,740
they were never successful in his lifetime of being able

435
00:26:30,772 --> 00:26:34,544
to grow the grapes and make the wine at Monticello. But as you said today,

436
00:26:34,844 --> 00:26:38,580
there are some really exceptional wineries in

437
00:26:38,612 --> 00:26:42,332
that area. There's one called early Mountain. I don't know if you've tried that yet.

438
00:26:42,388 --> 00:26:46,084
That's. Jean and Steve Case have launched that

439
00:26:46,124 --> 00:26:49,748
and they've really tried to aim for high quality.

440
00:26:49,876 --> 00:26:53,716
There's one closer to Washington, actually, you ask how wines get

441
00:26:53,740 --> 00:26:56,876
picked for the White House. There's one closer to Washington called

442
00:26:56,980 --> 00:27:00,324
RDV. So the proprietor is Rutger de Vinck,

443
00:27:00,444 --> 00:27:03,796
and he really is focused

444
00:27:03,820 --> 00:27:07,404
on growing in great, great grapes and making a terrific wine.

445
00:27:07,524 --> 00:27:10,932
Well, during the Obama administration, Michelle Obama,

446
00:27:11,108 --> 00:27:14,828
who was kind of the wine enthusiast in the family, President Obama is more

447
00:27:14,876 --> 00:27:18,724
interested in beer, but she knew wine and she would have her girlfriends

448
00:27:18,764 --> 00:27:22,392
come over for a wine tasting every once in a while. They went out to

449
00:27:22,408 --> 00:27:26,136
the Virginia countryside while she was first lady and went to

450
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,640
RGV vineyards and they tasted the wine and she liked it so

451
00:27:29,672 --> 00:27:33,288
much that she served it at the next state dinner at the White House. Wow.

452
00:27:33,336 --> 00:27:37,104
What a great story. Yep. So there. So Virginia is making

453
00:27:37,144 --> 00:27:40,624
great wines now, but unfortunately, Thomas Jefferson,

454
00:27:40,664 --> 00:27:44,392
although he was, I believe, the, by far

455
00:27:44,568 --> 00:27:48,144
foremost president with expertise and knowledge, kind of the founding

456
00:27:48,184 --> 00:27:52,004
father of wine for Americans, he

457
00:27:52,044 --> 00:27:55,876
did not make wine during his lifetime. I'm going to pull

458
00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:59,424
that episode up and listen to her and see if she gives us more information.

459
00:28:00,044 --> 00:28:03,380
It's a labor of love to do that on the east coast, just to veer

460
00:28:03,412 --> 00:28:07,164
off for a second. I was out in Millbrook, New York, years ago

461
00:28:07,244 --> 00:28:10,796
buying a small wine club and it was 3ft of

462
00:28:10,820 --> 00:28:13,864
snow and there's people out in their dry suits.

463
00:28:14,164 --> 00:28:17,920
Pruning. Yeah. And I'm thinking, what are you pruning for? I mean, there

464
00:28:17,952 --> 00:28:21,560
can't be, it can't be very good, and you're going to make

465
00:28:21,592 --> 00:28:25,040
wine here. But I, the wines I tasted the other day were

466
00:28:25,152 --> 00:28:28,872
rather solid and I did feature a Prince Michelle. I think it

467
00:28:28,888 --> 00:28:32,696
was in the club years ago. So it's interesting because there's

468
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,536
a guy, his name is Jerry Eisterhold. He was written up in the Smithsonian

469
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,416
magazine recently, and he's discovered twelve

470
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,184
to 15 vidis Lambrusca for the listeners, the second tier

471
00:28:44,224 --> 00:28:48,072
of wine grapes just below vidis vinifera, which are the grapes

472
00:28:48,088 --> 00:28:51,784
that we're used to making wine from. But he found this

473
00:28:51,824 --> 00:28:55,496
book, and I think it's around 1860, of a

474
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,328
gentleman, and he has propagated all these vines, so he's now reproduced

475
00:28:59,376 --> 00:29:02,324
about twelve of these varieties of american

476
00:29:03,184 --> 00:29:06,044
grape varietals to make wine from.

477
00:29:06,424 --> 00:29:10,060
Granted, he's decided that four of them absolutely

478
00:29:10,092 --> 00:29:13,076
just can't make wine that's worth a damn. So he stopped it

479
00:29:13,100 --> 00:29:16,940
completely. But I told him, I said, you must be,

480
00:29:17,052 --> 00:29:20,660
and he's in Missouri. I said, you have all the

481
00:29:20,692 --> 00:29:23,460
variables ahead of you that you've got to figure out. I mean, how do you

482
00:29:23,492 --> 00:29:26,964
know with twelve grapes you've never heard of that, never been planted recently,

483
00:29:27,124 --> 00:29:30,388
and the different soil types and the different elevations you got to work with, you

484
00:29:30,396 --> 00:29:34,196
have permutations that are going to be mind boggling. He goes, yeah, it's pretty

485
00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:38,048
hard. Grapes have never heard of. But, you

486
00:29:38,056 --> 00:29:40,764
know, when you're telling these stories,

487
00:29:41,664 --> 00:29:44,324
you said something about connecting history. He says that

488
00:29:45,904 --> 00:29:49,244
it's so important, the history of wine,

489
00:29:49,904 --> 00:29:53,600
the stories that you're telling now change your perspective of

490
00:29:53,632 --> 00:29:57,336
what you're drinking. If I can pour a Charles Krug

491
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,164
special select, I think that's what they call it,

492
00:30:01,144 --> 00:30:04,758
and say, yeah, this wine was poured by Eisenhower to Queen Elizabeth.

493
00:30:04,896 --> 00:30:08,682
Pretty confident if we dug deeper, we'd find that out. Cause my

494
00:30:08,698 --> 00:30:12,322
dad would have. It was his first case of wine. And that brought him to

495
00:30:12,338 --> 00:30:16,074
the wine industry eventually, because it was just such a fascinating

496
00:30:16,114 --> 00:30:19,414
thing. How important are the stories

497
00:30:19,714 --> 00:30:22,978
in your career with finding these wines and

498
00:30:23,066 --> 00:30:26,554
researching this to the consumers that you speak

499
00:30:26,594 --> 00:30:30,426
with? Well, first thing is it

500
00:30:30,450 --> 00:30:34,114
was just eye opening to me how much time our

501
00:30:34,154 --> 00:30:37,254
presidents spent with wine,

502
00:30:37,754 --> 00:30:41,594
particularly our early presidents. And here's, as I said earlier, Thomas

503
00:30:41,634 --> 00:30:45,454
Jefferson advising George Washington and procuring wine for him.

504
00:30:46,154 --> 00:30:49,866
I found letters from other presidents

505
00:30:50,050 --> 00:30:53,514
to our ambassadors over in Europe

506
00:30:53,594 --> 00:30:57,378
asking them to acquire wines to be sent and served at the White House.

507
00:30:57,506 --> 00:31:01,078
So there's a whole history now, as you know, the evolution of the wines we

508
00:31:01,086 --> 00:31:04,674
were talking about a little bit earlier, at the very beginning of our country,

509
00:31:05,414 --> 00:31:08,574
before our independence, the wines that were served were often

510
00:31:08,734 --> 00:31:12,398
Madeira. And the reason was, as you know, it's.

511
00:31:12,486 --> 00:31:15,474
It's from that little island off of the. Of Africa.

512
00:31:15,974 --> 00:31:19,022
It's. It's a very hardy wine. It's very

513
00:31:19,078 --> 00:31:22,518
sturdy. It had to live across the.

514
00:31:22,606 --> 00:31:26,098
Sailing across the ocean and the heat and the rough seas.

515
00:31:26,266 --> 00:31:29,626
And a lot of people thought it arrived better after all of that. So that

516
00:31:29,650 --> 00:31:33,066
was kind of the first wine that was served. But then, particularly with

517
00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:36,810
Jefferson's help, they began to find ways to get America. Excuse me, to get

518
00:31:36,842 --> 00:31:40,330
french wines to America. And I even found notes where he

519
00:31:40,362 --> 00:31:43,914
was changing shippers because one had more pilferage and

520
00:31:43,954 --> 00:31:47,626
breakage than the other. But he would, and this was Jefferson himself advising the

521
00:31:47,650 --> 00:31:51,418
shipments. So then the french wines arrived. We had this long

522
00:31:51,466 --> 00:31:55,270
period of french wines, and then you could see, as american wines

523
00:31:55,302 --> 00:31:58,646
were coming of age, american wines slope first as a

524
00:31:58,670 --> 00:32:02,334
novelty, as you mentioned, like with Eisenhower, and then today

525
00:32:02,414 --> 00:32:05,678
it's exclusively american wines. But the lessons to

526
00:32:05,846 --> 00:32:09,510
the wine consumer are that one that we try to

527
00:32:09,582 --> 00:32:13,086
showcase things that are best about America and wine is certainly one of them. That's

528
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:16,670
why they're a part of every state visit, that. It's

529
00:32:16,742 --> 00:32:20,322
also that just the. The formality, the tradition of filling

530
00:32:20,378 --> 00:32:24,130
one's glass with wine and raising it and doing a formal toast to your

531
00:32:24,162 --> 00:32:28,002
guest that's continued for so long, hundreds of

532
00:32:28,058 --> 00:32:31,714
years, and that things that connect to our

533
00:32:31,754 --> 00:32:35,530
lives. I'll tell you one kind of funny thing I learned

534
00:32:35,602 --> 00:32:39,202
in the book about presidents, and we talked about Jefferson.

535
00:32:39,258 --> 00:32:43,098
And as I said, Jefferson was by far the number one president

536
00:32:43,146 --> 00:32:46,224
when it came to wine. But a couple of others who were big,

537
00:32:46,844 --> 00:32:50,504
Richard Nixon was one. Richard Nixon knew his wines,

538
00:32:50,804 --> 00:32:54,344
which was a bit surprising because he grew up in a very humble.

539
00:32:55,524 --> 00:32:59,236
He had humble origins. Was it Ladera Heights? No, he

540
00:32:59,260 --> 00:33:03,028
was out just in Whittier. Whittier,

541
00:33:03,076 --> 00:33:06,804
California, yeah. And very small house. That's where his presidential

542
00:33:06,844 --> 00:33:10,484
library is today. But he had a curiosity. He wanted to

543
00:33:10,524 --> 00:33:14,160
know the world. And in the course of that, he learned a lot about wines

544
00:33:14,192 --> 00:33:18,040
and developed a really exquisite taste. And he

545
00:33:18,072 --> 00:33:21,496
would personally pick the wines that were served at the White House. And

546
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,376
he. And they were always very good. But what I had

547
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,216
heard about the thing I really wanted to find out was there was a story

548
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,760
out that Nixon would pick a very good wine for his

549
00:33:32,792 --> 00:33:36,624
guests. During the state dinner. But there would be another wine,

550
00:33:36,704 --> 00:33:40,538
an even better one, where a wine steward would be standing over in the corner

551
00:33:40,586 --> 00:33:44,002
with a towel around the bottle so nobody could tell it was different. And that

552
00:33:44,018 --> 00:33:47,538
would be only for Nixon. And the expression was called

553
00:33:47,626 --> 00:33:51,282
pulling a Nixon. So I talked to a lot of

554
00:33:51,298 --> 00:33:54,554
people. I talked to people in his administration. I talked to the White House staff,

555
00:33:54,594 --> 00:33:58,378
people. I went all around. And no source less than Woodward

556
00:33:58,426 --> 00:34:01,962
and Bernstein of the Washington Post confirmed

557
00:34:02,098 --> 00:34:05,842
that indeed, Nixon would have a one wine for the rest of the

558
00:34:05,858 --> 00:34:09,570
group and a special bottle just for him. And that was called pulling a Nixon.

559
00:34:09,682 --> 00:34:13,386
So I was talking to a group about this, and a guy raised

560
00:34:13,410 --> 00:34:16,882
his hand. He said, I have to confess, I've pulled a Nixon.

561
00:34:17,018 --> 00:34:19,986
So what do you mean? He said, my daughter's wedding. I had one wine for

562
00:34:20,010 --> 00:34:23,530
everybody else, but at our table, we had a different wine, and another guy raised

563
00:34:23,562 --> 00:34:27,122
his hand, said, I guess I pulled the Nixon, too. We realized throughout our lives,

564
00:34:27,258 --> 00:34:30,814
certainly at big events like weddings, there might be two tier wine service.

565
00:34:31,354 --> 00:34:35,040
No, this is very funny, and I'm glad now there's a coined

566
00:34:35,112 --> 00:34:38,404
phrase of it, because I wouldn't know, because I did it Wednesday

567
00:34:40,544 --> 00:34:44,048
at a funeral service for my father in law, and I was pouring

568
00:34:44,096 --> 00:34:47,832
Austin Hope, which is a fan favorite. People

569
00:34:47,928 --> 00:34:51,696
love it. It's not inexpensive for thing like that. But

570
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:54,364
I had a bottle of chateau lagrange in the pantry,

571
00:34:58,504 --> 00:35:02,278
because I just had Matthew Borden in the shop, and we did a nice

572
00:35:02,326 --> 00:35:05,022
podcast. I bought some wines. I go, you know what? I'm not drinking that. I'm

573
00:35:05,038 --> 00:35:08,486
going to drink something as good with shish kabbard. Our friend Steve

574
00:35:08,510 --> 00:35:11,766
Yonkey does the opposite. He serves a pretty decent wine to his guests, but he's

575
00:35:11,790 --> 00:35:13,914
got an ipa beer waiting for.

576
00:35:15,854 --> 00:35:19,478
Linda. But Linda, actually, Linda knows her wines. She's very good at

577
00:35:19,486 --> 00:35:23,206
it. I put up Steve's dartboard. If you ever went to his house in

578
00:35:23,230 --> 00:35:27,028
Arcadia and played darts, it's because I was there previously

579
00:35:27,166 --> 00:35:30,204
installed his dartboard for him. So,

580
00:35:31,304 --> 00:35:35,136
you know, there's something important, though, that we're talking about. You brought

581
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,392
it up in the book, and I've yet to be able to define

582
00:35:38,448 --> 00:35:42,168
this, that what it is unique about wine that

583
00:35:42,216 --> 00:35:45,936
makes us do this, and that's collect the mementos,

584
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,840
the bottles, the corks, and political buttons.

585
00:35:49,872 --> 00:35:53,224
And history and experience is the same that

586
00:35:53,264 --> 00:35:55,824
way. But from a beverage standpoint,

587
00:35:56,724 --> 00:36:00,476
why do we do that? What is it that wine brings to the

588
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:04,092
table? And this is strictly an opinion. I don't think there's a real answer

589
00:36:04,268 --> 00:36:07,980
that makes us feel like this, that there's something to

590
00:36:08,092 --> 00:36:11,892
cherish and something to remember or better days. What is

591
00:36:11,908 --> 00:36:15,692
it? I don't know. I would say we've all saved the

592
00:36:15,708 --> 00:36:19,314
cork from a special bottle or steamed a label off to.

593
00:36:19,444 --> 00:36:23,190
To save. And I would say it's like saving the ticket

594
00:36:23,222 --> 00:36:26,990
from a football game. You want to. It's a reminder of the event. It brings

595
00:36:27,022 --> 00:36:30,846
back memories when you see it. And some people collect them and

596
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:34,238
they organize them. But I think that's probably

597
00:36:34,286 --> 00:36:37,886
it. It's just a way to. In a

598
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:41,670
visual way to maintain the. Memory, because I could tell

599
00:36:41,702 --> 00:36:45,142
you that I had many. I had a couple of betas, actually. One of my

600
00:36:45,158 --> 00:36:48,982
beta brothers had gone to Italy and tasted a wine, and he ordered

601
00:36:48,998 --> 00:36:52,070
the wine from Italy, and it got sent here, and it got sent back, unfortunately,

602
00:36:52,102 --> 00:36:55,862
because he didn't have a license. And eventually I said, you know, why

603
00:36:55,878 --> 00:36:58,078
did you buy this? He goes, well, we were sitting in front of the Parthenon,

604
00:36:58,126 --> 00:37:01,502
and we were having a glass of wine, and we were just enjoying ourselves, and

605
00:37:01,518 --> 00:37:05,046
I just want to remember that. And then the wine I got him eventually, actually,

606
00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:08,062
I ended up buying it from America. He goes, it doesn't taste the same. I

607
00:37:08,078 --> 00:37:11,422
said, well, yeah, it's the same wine. It's the same vintage. Just because you're not

608
00:37:11,438 --> 00:37:14,900
in front of the Parthenon with your wife and nobody's tugging on your shirt tails,

609
00:37:14,932 --> 00:37:18,420
because wine is so experiential. And I wonder if you think

610
00:37:18,572 --> 00:37:22,332
that along that line, that all these stories that have

611
00:37:22,348 --> 00:37:25,076
been handed down, and let's just think about World War Two. And you were talking

612
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:28,868
about world War Two and like the 45 Lafitte.

613
00:37:28,996 --> 00:37:32,036
My dad ordered a 45 Lafitte at Tour d'Argent in

614
00:37:32,060 --> 00:37:35,636
1993, and it came up in the

615
00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:38,984
basket with the thick coating of dust and debris.

616
00:37:39,384 --> 00:37:43,124
The ullage was huge. So my dad, in French, he spoke French.

617
00:37:43,584 --> 00:37:45,792
He goes, I tell you what I'm going to do. He says, you open it.

618
00:37:45,808 --> 00:37:48,804
If it's good, I pay for it. It's $3,500 at the time.

619
00:37:49,704 --> 00:37:53,440
If it's not good, you pay for it. The guy goes, no, I'm not doing

620
00:37:53,472 --> 00:37:57,184
that. So

621
00:37:57,264 --> 00:38:00,920
he sent it back, and we got a Costa L 62. So

622
00:38:00,992 --> 00:38:04,828
it was still very good. You did all right. You

623
00:38:04,836 --> 00:38:08,304
know, these stories that you're bringing forward,

624
00:38:09,004 --> 00:38:12,764
and I think the easiest one to sort of to parallel

625
00:38:12,804 --> 00:38:15,584
it is the Nazis coming to Bordeaux,

626
00:38:17,284 --> 00:38:20,104
that those stories that are handed down from generations

627
00:38:21,684 --> 00:38:24,944
have to end up in the bottle as part of the terroir of a wine.

628
00:38:26,484 --> 00:38:29,784
Yeah. And as you know, there's a great book, wine and war,

629
00:38:31,354 --> 00:38:34,618
and it was just amazing

630
00:38:34,666 --> 00:38:37,842
that the French viewed wine

631
00:38:37,978 --> 00:38:41,602
rightfully, I believe, as a national treasure. They didn't want

632
00:38:41,658 --> 00:38:45,482
to have the wineries the great Chateau seized, and they didn't want to

633
00:38:45,498 --> 00:38:49,290
have their wine taken by the Nazis. So they were, as you

634
00:38:49,322 --> 00:38:52,418
know, tour d'Argent was one place. They were putting up fake

635
00:38:52,466 --> 00:38:56,186
walls where the Nazis would get in the cellar and they would

636
00:38:56,210 --> 00:38:59,770
see a brick wall, not knowing that there was a fake wall and the whole

637
00:38:59,802 --> 00:39:03,266
cellar was on the other side of it. They were taking wine and burying

638
00:39:03,330 --> 00:39:06,994
it in huge plots out in Bordeaux. They were putting it in

639
00:39:07,034 --> 00:39:10,706
ponds just to have it disappear. And

640
00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:14,522
then, very cleverly, they were finding the worst wines from the worst years, and

641
00:39:14,538 --> 00:39:18,186
they were slapping labels on them saying special reserve, and

642
00:39:18,290 --> 00:39:21,654
those were taken off and shipped to Berlin.

643
00:39:22,694 --> 00:39:26,486
But I just did last Saturday's Wall Street Journal. They have

644
00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:29,926
that section on five books that you might recommend. They asked me to write in

645
00:39:29,950 --> 00:39:33,726
about five books that I would recommend on wine, and one of

646
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:37,558
them was wine and war, because I thought just the story of what the French

647
00:39:37,606 --> 00:39:41,166
did all the way through this pine. Cause the

648
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:44,554
Germans sent these guys that they called wine furers

649
00:39:44,974 --> 00:39:48,034
France, and they were supposed to manage taking the wine

650
00:39:48,894 --> 00:39:52,612
and all the antics the French went through to thwart the efforts of the

651
00:39:52,628 --> 00:39:56,396
wine fuhrers. Barrels of wine were seized and put

652
00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:59,396
on trains to go to Berlin. And as the trains were leaving the station, the

653
00:39:59,420 --> 00:40:02,636
French would punch a hole in the barrel. And by the time they got to

654
00:40:02,660 --> 00:40:06,340
Berlin, it would be an empty barrel. They took empty barrels and they

655
00:40:06,372 --> 00:40:10,092
moved resistance fighters around in the barrels. It was incredible the

656
00:40:10,108 --> 00:40:13,436
way the French stood up to protect their country and protect their

657
00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:17,108
wine. So that's the point. The cladstrokes, by the way,

658
00:40:17,196 --> 00:40:20,948
they're still around. They live in Paris. Had dinner with them not too long ago.

659
00:40:21,036 --> 00:40:24,668
Oh, wow. He was the. We had a great conversation

660
00:40:24,716 --> 00:40:28,252
because he was the ABC correspondent in

661
00:40:28,348 --> 00:40:31,984
Europe and covered the armenian earthquake

662
00:40:32,564 --> 00:40:35,916
and tells these stories about sleeping in a monastery. I mean, a monastery but

663
00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:39,652
a mausoleum and, you know, with bodies

664
00:40:39,708 --> 00:40:43,356
around him, but. Fascinating couple. And she's sort of the

665
00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:47,142
Gertrude Stein of. Of wine. They just finished a book

666
00:40:47,158 --> 00:40:50,982
called Champagne Charlie, which I haven't seen. I got to

667
00:40:50,998 --> 00:40:54,630
read that. But she's. She's very Gertrude Stein ish. She's

668
00:40:54,662 --> 00:40:58,414
just really bright woman. Well, it's a great book.

669
00:40:58,494 --> 00:41:02,302
And they did. I mean, they went to the original sources.

670
00:41:02,358 --> 00:41:06,006
They found the documents, they talked to people in both armies on

671
00:41:06,030 --> 00:41:09,422
both sides, the german and the french army resistance. They talked to the

672
00:41:09,518 --> 00:41:13,132
chateau owners. It was extremely well done, in my

673
00:41:13,148 --> 00:41:16,876
opinion. It brought me to the conversation, actually, the reason I found the book

674
00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:20,412
was I was trying to understand why at the

675
00:41:20,428 --> 00:41:23,980
artsakh war in Armenia, one of the first things the soldiers did was

676
00:41:24,012 --> 00:41:26,748
steal the four whineries that were in that region. And I've had two of those

677
00:41:26,836 --> 00:41:30,476
people on the show, and I started asking that question, why is wine a

678
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:34,332
spoil of war? What's so fascinating about that? We

679
00:41:34,348 --> 00:41:36,784
would take it, and maybe it is to.

680
00:41:37,944 --> 00:41:41,776
To poke in the tradition of that invading

681
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,204
of the army. I'm sorry, the country you're taking over. In other words,

682
00:41:46,504 --> 00:41:50,272
to go after them in a moral way, I would

683
00:41:50,288 --> 00:41:54,072
think. You'Re seizing their treasures. And if it's a country that's

684
00:41:54,128 --> 00:41:57,864
renowned for being great in the wine

685
00:41:57,904 --> 00:42:01,656
space or even not, it's just something. These are valuable assets to

686
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,244
countries, I learned. Kind of interesting thing.

687
00:42:05,324 --> 00:42:08,988
And going back earlier in american history, you know, we had

688
00:42:09,036 --> 00:42:12,820
the war of 1812 with England. And in 1814,

689
00:42:12,932 --> 00:42:16,624
the English marched on Washington, and they burned the White House to the ground.

690
00:42:17,004 --> 00:42:20,644
And I was curious, because Thomas Jefferson, when he was in the White

691
00:42:20,684 --> 00:42:24,156
House, as the second resident of the White

692
00:42:24,180 --> 00:42:27,756
House, our third president, but as you know, George Washington didn't live in the White

693
00:42:27,780 --> 00:42:31,356
House. Adams was the first one to live there. Then Thomas Jefferson moved in,

694
00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:35,044
and he moved in, and the White House was still like today. We'd say

695
00:42:35,084 --> 00:42:38,076
it's kind of like in the punch list state. There's a list of things still

696
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:41,852
to be done. And one of them that he discovered was there

697
00:42:41,868 --> 00:42:45,668
was no wine cellar. So Thomas Jefferson built the first wine cellar in

698
00:42:45,676 --> 00:42:49,484
the White House. He built it right in front, underneath the grand portico

699
00:42:49,524 --> 00:42:52,292
in the front of the White House. And if anybody wants to see what it

700
00:42:52,308 --> 00:42:55,784
looks like, he built an identical one out at Monticello,

701
00:42:56,274 --> 00:42:59,138
his country house. And I have a picture of it in the book, so you

702
00:42:59,146 --> 00:43:02,946
can see what the original White House wine cellar looked like. But he built it,

703
00:43:02,970 --> 00:43:06,266
and he stocked it with wine. And what I was wondering was, okay, there's a

704
00:43:06,290 --> 00:43:09,914
wine cellar. It's in the White House. We hear about Dolly

705
00:43:09,954 --> 00:43:13,706
Madison, who gave the instructions to take down that famous picture of

706
00:43:13,730 --> 00:43:16,994
George Washington and make sure that it doesn't get burned as they're leaving the White

707
00:43:17,034 --> 00:43:20,826
House. So as we're interested in wine, I wanted

708
00:43:20,850 --> 00:43:23,202
to know what happened to the wine. There was a wine cellar. What happened to

709
00:43:23,218 --> 00:43:26,924
it? What happened, I discovered, was the British came.

710
00:43:27,004 --> 00:43:30,708
They burned the White House. And as it was smoldering, they left

711
00:43:30,756 --> 00:43:34,380
to go to Capitol Hill to burn the Capitol. Then the american

712
00:43:34,452 --> 00:43:38,084
troops arrived at the White House to defend. The British are gone.

713
00:43:38,164 --> 00:43:41,244
The White House is burned. But they see there's this wine cellar down the front.

714
00:43:41,284 --> 00:43:45,036
So the american troops went down and they drank the wine from the

715
00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:48,756
president's wine cellar. So our own troops got to

716
00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:52,128
enjoy the spoils of war. That's amazing. What a great

717
00:43:52,176 --> 00:43:55,816
story. That was. Actually, the question I had. It was like, is there a cellar

718
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,232
there? And I think the video I watched, you were in the cellar, but is

719
00:43:59,248 --> 00:44:03,080
it active? Do they, you know, this is something that

720
00:44:03,112 --> 00:44:06,736
will disappoint all wine enthusiasts, and it's something I

721
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,576
found out years ago when I worked in the White House. I

722
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,896
wanted to see the White House wine cellar, and I asked the guy who was

723
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,568
in charge, and he said, well, busy now, whatever. And he finally

724
00:44:17,616 --> 00:44:21,268
won. August, when the president and first

725
00:44:21,316 --> 00:44:24,012
lady were gone, he said, all right, I'm going to show you the wine cellar

726
00:44:24,148 --> 00:44:27,812
now. I had these visions that there would be this giant wine cellar with

727
00:44:27,868 --> 00:44:31,332
big domes and dust and rack after rack and

728
00:44:31,468 --> 00:44:35,316
maybe a bottle of Thomas Jefferson's wine sitting in the corner or something.

729
00:44:35,460 --> 00:44:38,932
And no, by the way, the Queen of England

730
00:44:39,068 --> 00:44:42,676
has 38,000 bottles of wine. Wow. Hangering

731
00:44:42,740 --> 00:44:46,346
on now. It's in the royal collection, 38,000 bottles of wine.

732
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:49,750
The Elysees palace in Paris has more than

733
00:44:49,782 --> 00:44:53,406
18,000 bottles of wine. So I'm all excited. I want to see the wine

734
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:56,782
cellar. I go in there. I learned the White House no longer has a wine

735
00:44:56,798 --> 00:45:00,470
cellar. It has a very small closet that can

736
00:45:00,502 --> 00:45:04,038
hold maybe 300 bottles. And they typically buy

737
00:45:04,086 --> 00:45:07,766
wine on an event by event basis. So if there's a state dinner coming up

738
00:45:07,790 --> 00:45:11,222
in a couple of weeks, they'll select and decide on the wine. They'll buy it,

739
00:45:11,238 --> 00:45:14,948
and they'll let it sit in the. In the boxes in the wine

740
00:45:15,036 --> 00:45:18,612
closet before they serve it. And there are a few bottles and little racks in

741
00:45:18,628 --> 00:45:21,372
case the president has a guest come over who wants to have a glass of

742
00:45:21,388 --> 00:45:25,196
champagne or sparkling wine or glass of

743
00:45:25,220 --> 00:45:28,984
wine. There's some there. But unfortunately for us,

744
00:45:30,164 --> 00:45:33,572
those of us who are saying that that's the case. Has a bowling

745
00:45:33,628 --> 00:45:37,356
alley. Doesn't have a bowling alley. Bowling alley. There is a bowling alley. There's

746
00:45:37,380 --> 00:45:40,774
tennis courts. You can throw horseshoes.

747
00:45:41,354 --> 00:45:44,114
There are a lot of different things, but there's no wine cellar. But maybe one

748
00:45:44,154 --> 00:45:47,938
day we'll find somebody who says, if you elect me president of the United

749
00:45:47,986 --> 00:45:51,250
States, I'll build the biggest, best, greatest wine

750
00:45:51,282 --> 00:45:54,374
cellar of any head of state around the world.

751
00:45:54,714 --> 00:45:58,546
Because when I sold the company in May, the gentleman bought

752
00:45:58,570 --> 00:46:01,554
it. And he all bought all my regular stuff. Which is mostly $15 to $20

753
00:46:01,594 --> 00:46:05,314
retail stuff. And I had, I don't know, like close to 3000 bottles that

754
00:46:05,354 --> 00:46:08,706
collected during COVID and whatever of Grand Cruz. And

755
00:46:08,730 --> 00:46:12,482
some classified growth and all kinds of interesting things. He wanted none of

756
00:46:12,498 --> 00:46:16,130
it. And I didn't have a seller either, actually, after

757
00:46:16,282 --> 00:46:20,098
all these years. So I built one and still only holds like,

758
00:46:20,186 --> 00:46:23,738
900 bottles. But not enough. But that'll get you through a couple

759
00:46:23,786 --> 00:46:27,334
weeks. Things could be worse. Coming over. Yeah, that's right.

760
00:46:28,714 --> 00:46:32,146
Tell me about the toasting that goes on at the White House. Is there

761
00:46:32,330 --> 00:46:36,048
a tradition there? You know, like the French have a toast, the Armenians

762
00:46:36,096 --> 00:46:39,784
have a toast. Is it part of the curriculum

763
00:46:39,904 --> 00:46:43,736
at a state dinner? It is. And I learned a lot

764
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,024
about toasting, by the way, in this book, as you'll see, there's an entire chapter

765
00:46:47,064 --> 00:46:50,576
on toasting. The origins of it. And then

766
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:54,520
some of the toasts that presidents have given over the years. But just

767
00:46:54,552 --> 00:46:58,064
going back to the origin of it. It was a little less

768
00:46:58,104 --> 00:47:01,576
than glamorous when I learned how. Cause I wanna know, where did this come

769
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,142
from? It went all the way back to the days of early Rome.

770
00:47:05,278 --> 00:47:09,102
And there was a tradition when there was a big banquet. They would

771
00:47:09,118 --> 00:47:12,638
have a big urn that they would fill with wine.

772
00:47:12,766 --> 00:47:16,462
And each person would take a drink of it. And then they would turn to

773
00:47:16,478 --> 00:47:20,150
the person next to them and wish them good health. And then they would drink.

774
00:47:20,182 --> 00:47:23,990
It would go around the room. Well, the wine probably wasn't very good to start

775
00:47:24,022 --> 00:47:27,262
off with. And by the time a lot of people have drank out of this,

776
00:47:27,318 --> 00:47:30,674
it wasn't getting any better. So they would burn a piece of

777
00:47:30,714 --> 00:47:34,410
bread and they would drop it in the vessel. And

778
00:47:34,482 --> 00:47:38,314
it was designed to absorb the impurities that were in the wine.

779
00:47:38,474 --> 00:47:42,130
Essentially, a piece of toast. Charcoal filtering. Toasting. Yeah.

780
00:47:42,282 --> 00:47:45,794
The term toasting got associated with this act. So

781
00:47:45,874 --> 00:47:49,514
it moved forward to present day life. And it's part of

782
00:47:49,554 --> 00:47:52,890
every diplomatic, every big event.

783
00:47:53,042 --> 00:47:56,890
And all presidents do it. But it's kind of been shortened now where

784
00:47:56,962 --> 00:48:00,314
it's two to three minutes. At one point, they'd stand up and they'd do these

785
00:48:00,354 --> 00:48:03,866
half hour, 45 minutes toasts. And

786
00:48:04,010 --> 00:48:07,666
they became foreign policy speeches. So the protocol people on all sides, okay, two to

787
00:48:07,690 --> 00:48:10,946
three minutes, talk about the relationship between the countries.

788
00:48:11,130 --> 00:48:14,874
And it evolved when to change a bit. When Jimmy Carter was

789
00:48:14,914 --> 00:48:18,754
president, he had the president of Mexico there. And

790
00:48:18,794 --> 00:48:21,682
typically, he'd wait till the end of the evening, and the finale would be a

791
00:48:21,698 --> 00:48:25,170
nice toast and a tribute, and you'd end it with a clinking of the glasses,

792
00:48:25,202 --> 00:48:28,914
and that was it. Well, Jimmy Carter, for some reason, just stood

793
00:48:28,954 --> 00:48:32,426
up at the very beginning of the evening, before his wine had even been poured,

794
00:48:32,570 --> 00:48:35,786
walked up the podium with his water glass, and he made the

795
00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:39,642
toast. And then he realized he didn't have any wine, and it

796
00:48:39,658 --> 00:48:42,330
wasn't a wine glass. So he went down and he got his wine glass filled,

797
00:48:42,362 --> 00:48:44,906
and he went back up, and he made the toast again just to make sure

798
00:48:44,930 --> 00:48:48,682
that it was official. The wine. Every single president

799
00:48:48,778 --> 00:48:52,438
since then has followed that example. They get the toast out of the way at

800
00:48:52,446 --> 00:48:55,198
the beginning so they don't have to think about it all evening. They can enjoy

801
00:48:55,246 --> 00:48:58,942
themselves and have good conversation and good glass of wine with their guests.

802
00:48:59,078 --> 00:49:02,398
It is intimidating, right? I mean, you're thinking, what am I gonna say? What am

803
00:49:02,406 --> 00:49:05,182
I gonna say? What am I gonna say? And then you try to say it,

804
00:49:05,198 --> 00:49:08,494
and it doesn't come out the way you wanted it. You know, there were some.

805
00:49:08,534 --> 00:49:11,830
I mean, the presidents, and I included them in there. Some were serious toasts. Some

806
00:49:11,862 --> 00:49:15,526
were funny toasts. Some of

807
00:49:15,550 --> 00:49:19,312
them would talk about, typically, they talk about the historical

808
00:49:19,368 --> 00:49:22,944
connections between our countries. I included them in there, but I

809
00:49:22,984 --> 00:49:26,448
also, Paul, included this other section in the book. I found, as you saw, and

810
00:49:26,456 --> 00:49:29,764
you went through, I found all these short little quotes

811
00:49:30,384 --> 00:49:33,816
by presidents or by prominent people in the wine space.

812
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,784
And I thought they might be useful for people

813
00:49:37,824 --> 00:49:40,192
who want to use them in a toast, or they might want to. If you're

814
00:49:40,208 --> 00:49:43,114
making a speech, you might want to quote it. So I have a number of

815
00:49:43,114 --> 00:49:46,546
them from our presidents and all, but. And I put them every couple pages. You'll

816
00:49:46,570 --> 00:49:50,362
see just a little two or three sentence toast or little witty statement, but

817
00:49:50,378 --> 00:49:53,698
the one that I really love the most, because you can't talk about wine without

818
00:49:53,746 --> 00:49:57,506
talking about Winston Churchill. And he came to the White House, and

819
00:49:57,610 --> 00:50:01,410
Roosevelt entertained him. And I got the list of the wines that every meal had.

820
00:50:01,442 --> 00:50:05,002
Wine or brandy or scotch or champagne, serve breakfast, lunch, and

821
00:50:05,018 --> 00:50:08,802
dinner. But there was a great quote by Winston Churchill that he

822
00:50:08,818 --> 00:50:12,574
put in there, and he was talking about, as you know, bottles

823
00:50:12,614 --> 00:50:16,326
of wine. There's the regular sized bottle, and then a double bottle is called

824
00:50:16,350 --> 00:50:19,902
a magnum. And as you know, they get larger and larger. So the quote he

825
00:50:19,918 --> 00:50:23,454
had was, he said, a magnum of wine is the

826
00:50:23,494 --> 00:50:27,274
perfect size bottle for two gentlemen to enjoy over lunch,

827
00:50:27,934 --> 00:50:30,034
especially if one isn't drinking.

828
00:50:33,214 --> 00:50:37,036
Wow. He was known for that. Anyway, actually a big

829
00:50:37,060 --> 00:50:38,944
fan of armenian brandy as well.

830
00:50:40,764 --> 00:50:43,788
We're at 51 minutes already, but I have so much to talk about. Probably have

831
00:50:43,796 --> 00:50:47,172
to do this again. But there was one thing. There was a question that somebody

832
00:50:47,188 --> 00:50:50,908
had asked you, prior thing, and it was about Woodrow Wilson and the

833
00:50:50,996 --> 00:50:54,708
Volstead act. And we just got back from Savannah. We went to the prohibition

834
00:50:54,756 --> 00:50:58,104
museum. And so maybe this is a more contemporary question, but

835
00:51:00,084 --> 00:51:03,878
it wasn't really repealed. It was just broken up into 50 different versions and

836
00:51:03,886 --> 00:51:07,566
in some cases, still dry states or states control all the

837
00:51:07,590 --> 00:51:09,754
alcohol. Is there any active

838
00:51:11,454 --> 00:51:15,230
pursuit to remove that act and just give control

839
00:51:15,302 --> 00:51:19,114
back to this regular like any other product?

840
00:51:19,734 --> 00:51:23,390
Yeah. Well, as you know, the history of this, and it is worth noting how

841
00:51:23,462 --> 00:51:27,070
it happened. There was, back in the late 19th

842
00:51:27,102 --> 00:51:30,706
century, before prohibition, there was what was called the temperance movement,

843
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:34,714
and that was a little bit religious, but just more broadly,

844
00:51:34,754 --> 00:51:38,274
it was an effort led by many women across the country

845
00:51:38,354 --> 00:51:42,074
to just eliminate the consumption of alcohol. And it was funny,

846
00:51:42,154 --> 00:51:45,506
we talk a lot about the presidents, but there are also some first ladies who

847
00:51:45,530 --> 00:51:49,266
played a big role in our wine history, and one was the

848
00:51:49,290 --> 00:51:52,614
wife of our 19th president, Rutherford B. Hayes.

849
00:51:52,954 --> 00:51:56,254
He was a leader of the temperance movement. As you know,

850
00:51:57,604 --> 00:52:01,340
he was elected president. And as soon as he got

851
00:52:01,372 --> 00:52:04,932
there, there was a very important state dinner coming up. It was the son of

852
00:52:04,948 --> 00:52:07,996
the russian czar, who was a very important

853
00:52:08,180 --> 00:52:11,852
relationship to us at that time. And the diplomat said, you have

854
00:52:11,908 --> 00:52:15,580
got to serve wine. It will be a major faux pas, diplomatic

855
00:52:15,612 --> 00:52:19,380
catastrophe if you don't do it. So she acquiesced and she

856
00:52:19,412 --> 00:52:23,126
allowed wine to be served. That was the only time it was served, the

857
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:26,758
entire time he was president. But they had this, as I was talking a little

858
00:52:26,766 --> 00:52:30,262
bit earlier, these presidents over the years had purchased this very ornate

859
00:52:30,318 --> 00:52:33,742
glassware, beautiful glasses and decanters and

860
00:52:33,878 --> 00:52:37,622
carved crystal, and she used that at every meal, but she would

861
00:52:37,638 --> 00:52:41,462
serve fruit juice in it. Wow. So she was given the name lemonade

862
00:52:41,518 --> 00:52:45,294
Lucy because of the fruit juice, but that

863
00:52:45,334 --> 00:52:49,134
happened. And then prohibition from 1920 to 1933,

864
00:52:49,174 --> 00:52:52,972
and Woodrow Wilson was president, they passed the 18th amendment, and then the

865
00:52:52,988 --> 00:52:56,780
Volstead act that you mentioned was the Congress passed it. It was the legislation to

866
00:52:56,812 --> 00:53:00,476
implement prohibition. And Woodrow Wilson, he

867
00:53:00,500 --> 00:53:03,956
liked wine. He vetoed it. And then Congress overrode his

868
00:53:03,980 --> 00:53:07,660
veto, so it became the law. And a year

869
00:53:07,692 --> 00:53:11,060
later, he left the White House. His term was over, and he had his own

870
00:53:11,092 --> 00:53:14,836
wine collection, and he bought a house in Washington, DC. He wanted to

871
00:53:14,860 --> 00:53:18,420
move his wine from the White House to the new House he'd

872
00:53:18,452 --> 00:53:22,076
purchased in Washington. And it took congressional approval

873
00:53:22,220 --> 00:53:25,564
because the Volstead act at the time prevented

874
00:53:25,604 --> 00:53:29,268
the selling, buying,

875
00:53:29,316 --> 00:53:33,012
selling, or transporting of wine. You could have wine and you could

876
00:53:33,028 --> 00:53:35,932
drink it, but you couldn't buy any or sell any or transport any. So he

877
00:53:35,948 --> 00:53:39,236
wanted transport. So he needed special exception. But to answer your

878
00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:43,068
question, today there are efforts underway, and,

879
00:53:43,116 --> 00:53:46,954
you know, it's this arcane system of distribution in every

880
00:53:46,994 --> 00:53:50,554
state here in Maryland. It's in Montgomery county, where I live. It's

881
00:53:50,594 --> 00:53:53,762
controlled by the county. The same people work in the wine store who work in

882
00:53:53,778 --> 00:53:57,026
a county library, and it's a county

883
00:53:57,090 --> 00:53:59,374
outbreak, but

884
00:54:02,554 --> 00:54:06,066
there are efforts underway. There's. What's a free the grape? There's a

885
00:54:06,090 --> 00:54:09,698
large wine caucus members of Congress are involved

886
00:54:09,746 --> 00:54:13,234
in. So there's a lot of activity. I don't know when all

887
00:54:13,274 --> 00:54:16,586
these laws will change, though, because things. There are very

888
00:54:16,650 --> 00:54:19,394
influential interests on all sides. It's the

889
00:54:19,554 --> 00:54:23,362
WSWA wholesaler, spirits, and

890
00:54:23,498 --> 00:54:27,178
wine distributors that, you know, I wouldn't even allow. I was,

891
00:54:27,226 --> 00:54:30,650
as a retailer at the time, and being a guy that shipped wine, I wasn't

892
00:54:30,682 --> 00:54:33,522
even allowed to the meetings. They would not let me. I had to use this

893
00:54:33,578 --> 00:54:37,306
different badge, somebody else's badge. Wow. To go listen

894
00:54:37,330 --> 00:54:41,160
to what they're. Why they're fighting people like me to ship wine into a

895
00:54:41,192 --> 00:54:44,864
state. And, you know, Utah has thrown people in jail

896
00:54:44,904 --> 00:54:48,576
for shipping wine or beer into their state. Not

897
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,144
me, but they've their friends. You know, it's an

898
00:54:52,184 --> 00:54:54,552
interesting thing. We have to wrap it up, and we're going to have to do

899
00:54:54,568 --> 00:54:57,484
this again because we didn't even touch half of the subjects. But

900
00:54:59,264 --> 00:55:02,736
I think the synopsis of all this in your book, which is fascinating for the

901
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,352
listeners, you have to get a copy. It's called wine in the White House,

902
00:55:06,408 --> 00:55:10,190
a history, a Tome, really, of

903
00:55:10,342 --> 00:55:13,966
history. And you bring it up in the book as well, where there's

904
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:17,514
such connection. Wine is such a connecting

905
00:55:18,254 --> 00:55:21,966
beverage that it connects you to history, it connects you to geography. It

906
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:25,254
connects you to stories like this that bring things to

907
00:55:25,294 --> 00:55:28,782
light that otherwise may get lost without

908
00:55:28,878 --> 00:55:32,694
wine being part of the subject. Even the cladstrup's book, this

909
00:55:32,734 --> 00:55:36,500
book that you just finished, my knowledge

910
00:55:36,572 --> 00:55:40,252
of world geography is completely, exponentially

911
00:55:40,308 --> 00:55:43,540
better than it was when I started the study of wine. And it's just an

912
00:55:43,572 --> 00:55:47,420
interesting product and still has that ethereal value

913
00:55:47,532 --> 00:55:51,364
that is human. It connects you to something.

914
00:55:51,444 --> 00:55:55,196
It connects people. I think the next time

915
00:55:55,220 --> 00:55:57,904
we talk, we're going to talk about the consumerism of wine.

916
00:55:59,124 --> 00:56:02,762
I've been joking with people today at the tasting, and somebody started a

917
00:56:02,778 --> 00:56:06,306
club during Christmas as a competitor of my old club called

918
00:56:06,370 --> 00:56:10,042
Vino Cheapo. And

919
00:56:10,058 --> 00:56:13,858
I'm thinking, you know, to going back to what you're saying, that's not a

920
00:56:13,906 --> 00:56:17,402
story you don't like. You're sitting around dinnertime and somebody goes, this is pretty good.

921
00:56:17,418 --> 00:56:20,378
Which they probably wouldn't if you had a wine from Vino Chiba. But if you

922
00:56:20,426 --> 00:56:24,130
did, you're probably a little more embarrassed to say, hey, I got it for

923
00:56:24,162 --> 00:56:27,594
$5 than being proud of it,

924
00:56:27,634 --> 00:56:31,470
right? You're probably like, yeah, thanks. That's the end of it.

925
00:56:31,542 --> 00:56:34,590
I don't want to tell you I got it for $5 at the 99 cent

926
00:56:34,622 --> 00:56:37,154
store. Anyway, regardless, had I known

927
00:56:37,774 --> 00:56:41,590
that this was the Frederick J. Ryan friend of the Steve

928
00:56:41,622 --> 00:56:44,822
Yonke, I could have just called him and got your email address and not have

929
00:56:44,838 --> 00:56:48,646
to go through pages and pages of Google searches. But such

930
00:56:48,670 --> 00:56:52,510
a fascinating conversation. It's such a great book. Thanks,

931
00:56:52,542 --> 00:56:56,266
Bob. I've enjoyed the chance to talk to you about it and look forward

932
00:56:56,290 --> 00:56:59,294
to continuing the conversation. I appreciate it. Cheers.

933
00:57:08,234 --> 00:57:11,610
Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum, Cary. And don't forget to

934
00:57:11,642 --> 00:57:14,770
subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way.

935
00:57:14,922 --> 00:57:18,274
Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.