"The Audacity To HIre A Woman" Says Veronique Sanders of Cht. Haut Bailly.

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responsibly. B 21 Carson

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Leno Fallon now

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it's wine talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to wine talks with Paul K. And we are at away game in

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the grave district, the Pesach Leonon no see. Is it also

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pesachelnion or is it the grave Pesachelon? Engrave the grave

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region and the appellation of pesachelion. So the sub region.

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Hey, I want you guys to have a listen to a podcast I did

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with Paul Warston. Just came out a few weeks ago, and that is because

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he is the winemaker of an eight acre

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vineyard in Bel Air, California, if not known as

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Beverly Hills. The question is, who makes wine in Beverly

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Hills? Well, Paul does. It's a great conversation as well. There's another episode

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just came out with Julie Hernandez. Julie walked into my office

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about 20 years ago. I told myself, this young woman will never make it

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in this industry. It's too hard. And she became a local executive, one of the

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largest distributors in California, and she just retired. And it

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wasn't for her. I think wine of the month club would have been in dire

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straits to find wine and to make deals in this industry. So listen to

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that, but not why we're here. We're here to see and have a conversation with

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veteran Lisanders Van Beck and she's the director

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president of a Chateau aux Bailly here in the grave in the Pesach

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L'Oignon district. But welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you, Paul.

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It's so fun because we met at the tasting

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at that crazy museum. What was that thing? That Uncle

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Ben's museum or something? Brain brainwashing.

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Brainwash, that's right. You have a better memory. And that was

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with Maison Marc domain group.

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And I want to talk about that too. A little bit, but more interesting. I

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just read this morning that you poured wine at a very

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important dinner at Versailles. And tell

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me President Macron was there. I mean, this is pretty serious

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stuff. Yes, this is a beautiful event which is

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called choose France. And Mister

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Macron invited top leaders around the world who

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might invest in France or investing in France.

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So it was a dinner for, I think, 300 top

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businessmen from all around

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the world. And they choose obey. So choose, friends choose

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obey. That's right. Choose France. Choose. That's our new

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slogan, right? Exactly. Cause that's a

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pretty impressive accolade that the president of the country would choose

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to for that. Did obeyee always have that

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distinction in the world of wine? Or is that a more current

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distinction? Or is it something that you earn and takes a long

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time? I think Obaii has a very long history

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and a beautiful history. It always belonged to very strong

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personalities. And if you are looking at the

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great golden age of obey, between

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1872 and 1940, Aubai was selling at the same

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price as the first gross Lafitte Latour, Margot Aubrion.

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And at that time it was already very much looked

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after, regarded, considered.

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More recently, I know that Dominique de Villepin chose

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aubailly for meeting in New York

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with La Nue

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as a beautiful image of a french

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terroir which belonged to an american. So it was

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a symbolic wine chosen for

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this event to show also the friendship between our two

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countries. And you gave us the Statue of Liberty. I mean,

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that's a very important thing. No, that's an interesting thought though, you just

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said, because I'm here with a large group of friends and

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cousins and family and clients as well. And they're learning about

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the classification of 1855. They're learning about the classification of

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1955. And here you're saying, which I thought when Napoleon

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III, the great nephew, right, of the great general,

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decided to do the classification, it was really for

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elevating the popularity of Bordeaux to the world's

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eye. Right at the fair in Paris.

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And you were selling at the same price. And I always thought that the original

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classification was kind of based on the price.

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Actually, the classification of the medoc was done in

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1855, but don't forget that in Bordeaux, you

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don't only have one classification, but you have several classifications.

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You have the one of the medoc and Sauternes made in 1855,

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which was supposed to last just the time of the world exhibition,

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based on price, but you also have the one of Saint Emilion,

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which is more recent, and the one of the classified growth of

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grave, which was done one century

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after. And we belong to that. That one. And

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Pomerol doesn't have any classification, although Petrus might be

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the most famous wine around the world. So that's an interesting

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concept, though, because nowhere else in the world, except for maybe Italy, the

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DOCG and Doc. And that's just not really a ranking, that's just the

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classification of the appellation. Does this exist?

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And we had a conversation yesterday with Cheval

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Blanc Angelus, and talking about how

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I always have a hard time with

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their chardonnay, that they've opted

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out of the classification in Saint Emilion because

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it included hospitality service,

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hotel options. And they said, we're not going to

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play that game. Parking was part of this conversation.

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Do you think, just personally, that it should be a dynamic.

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Well, the case of Saint Emilion is special because it's a

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classification which is reopened every ten years. So if the

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rules of the game change, I can understand that some of them

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disagree or want to do differently. In

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our case, in the grave, it's very stable and it never

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reopened. So we are 14 classified growth with

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Aubrion being on leadership or leader or

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flagship. I mean, and all the

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classified growths are based in Pesach, like Aubreyon and Lamis

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Aubrion, and in Lyonon, where we are located with Aubai.

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So that's interesting. It leads to this

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conversation about culture of wine.

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This group I'm with, we're learning that the french culture

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is wine. In fact, one of your representatives at Lepte

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said, you're almost not french if you don't like wine, which is

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a cute saying. That's what she meant. And I thought, that's

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very different than what the american view

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of wine is. The american view is you go to Napa Valley, you

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go up and down the highway,

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you make a lot of money in your career, and you buy a winery and

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you get to live this lifestyle. And it's the next step of

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a lifestyle instead of in Europe and in France. And particularly, it

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is the lifestyle. You're here every day,

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you live it, you breathe it. And it takes this passion to do that. And

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you started with your father. I started with my grandfather. Your

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grandfather? Yes. I think it's more than a

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lifestyle. It's a mission. And it's something

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you do by passion. And with passion,

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you can never stop working. You can work seven days a week

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and 365 days a year because

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you always have an eye on what's going

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on in the field, what the weather going to be, what are

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the challenges you're going to have to deal with. So it's

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a never ending process. It is also a

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lifestyle, a beautiful lifestyle. And at Le Pape, you had a little bit

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of this french art de vivre that we are

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having lunch and dinners every day here with

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beautiful food, fresh ingredients from the market,

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matching all the wines we are going to serve at the table.

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So it is true that we are very privileged,

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but we are also fully dedicated to our

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vineyards because we do wine, not just for

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today, but we do wine for the next generation, for people who

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are going to drink it in many, many years and enjoy the fruit of

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our work. It doesn't feel like work, does it?

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I think if you love your work and if you do it by passion, you

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never have the feeling you're working. It's a unique product, though,

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and I've had a hard time defining this or getting a definition. Maybe there

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isn't one because there is no other. And it hit me this

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morning, there's no other product in the world that requires a. Is so

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slow. You only get one chance a year to do it and to test

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what your philosophy is going to be about that vintage. And

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there's no product that brings people together like this product.

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Here we are traveling the world with my group, and

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it's focused on visiting places like Obaee and

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learning more about that culture. And I can't think of another

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product that feels like that. A stilo. A pen

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doesn't do that. Paper doesn't do that. A semiconductor doesn't do that. My

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iPhone, I don't gather over my iPhone, but we gather over

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wine. And I don't know if it's because it's a conduit to the

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soul or the soil or what. I think, first of

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all, wine is part of civilization.

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Everywhere you have a civilization, you will have

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wine. It's also. You're

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mentioning a stilo. It can be yogurt. It's very different

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from any industrial product, because

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even if we want to make the best wine as possible every year,

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at the end of the year, we will do only what is possible to

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do, because we are dependent from the weather. So

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nature will decide or God will decide of what

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we are able to do or not. So we just have to

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adapt permanently. And this adaptation

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makes our job fascinating, because every year is a new

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story. Every year we write a

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new history on the white page. And we learn from scratch every

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year. Our job changed

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incredibly in the last 25 years. And

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you're right. I mean, in the end, you are sharing

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this product with people who love food, who

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love art, who have many passions.

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And when you have a great wine on a table, the discussions

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are always remarkable. It's pretty amazing. And I

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thank my father for that. Exposed me to it

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young. We had a wine shop. I stocked the

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shelves. I was learning then and

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coming on a trip like this and learning more. After 35 years

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of selling wine, I still learned every time I sit down with people like you

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to understand more about what we're doing. It sounds like to me

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there's a certain humility to what you just said, because you don't get to

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decide what's going to happen because of the weather. And God gets to tell

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you what we're going to produce and you get to do the best you can

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with it. And that sort of is humbling experience, right?

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Unlike the wines we find at the supermarkets

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that are on a formula, we're going to add so much sugar, so much acid,

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we're going to make it taste like it did last year. I understand those are

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important vintages to have for people to get used to wine. But

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in this case, and in most cases, there's a certain humility

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required to do this. I love this word of

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humility, because you know where it comes from. Humility

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comes from humus in Latin, and it

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means earth. Oh, I did not know that. Wow. So. And

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all of our work is to look at our vineyards,

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look at the 90% of our work is

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outside in the field. And to make a great wine,

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you do it outside. Then you may have a beautiful cellar with

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lots of technology at the service of your terroir.

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But we all are focused on our

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ground, on our soil and our subsoil, on the

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plant which is on it. And the many, many number of

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hours of work for each plant.

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Our soil or vineyard is low, so it keeps us

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humble. And humility is really a key word for sure. It's almost like

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a privilege. It's almost a privilege to be able to

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experience that and to manage that and to become part of

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that culture. It is a privilege and

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it's a mission, because my job would be to

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transmit it to the next generation. We are at the service

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of our vineyard for a few years, few decades.

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We inherit something from the past. We have

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to take care of this

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patrimoine of all vines, and we

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plant the oldest vines into new vines

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in order that the next generation can also benefit from

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something which has been regenerated. And

238
00:14:48,370 --> 00:14:52,082
yes, it is a privilege, it's a duty, and it's

239
00:14:52,106 --> 00:14:55,562
an honor to serve a terroir like obey. Is there another

240
00:14:55,626 --> 00:14:59,230
generation? So after.

241
00:14:59,530 --> 00:15:03,322
There's always another generation. My son is

242
00:15:03,346 --> 00:15:06,710
15 years old and the Wilmers family owning it

243
00:15:07,090 --> 00:15:10,762
right now. There is the second

244
00:15:10,826 --> 00:15:14,642
generation at the head of it right now. Congratulations. That's great. I didn't have a

245
00:15:14,666 --> 00:15:18,018
generation. I have three daughters. They're beautiful daughters. And I told you about one of

246
00:15:18,034 --> 00:15:21,266
them. But the wine trade in

247
00:15:21,298 --> 00:15:24,990
California, on the Internet, we're retailers, wholesalers,

248
00:15:26,020 --> 00:15:29,780
you know, it's gotten so difficult, you know,

249
00:15:29,820 --> 00:15:33,052
managing the Internet sales, you know, 50

250
00:15:33,116 --> 00:15:36,956
regulations of 50 states. I wasn't fortunate

251
00:15:36,988 --> 00:15:39,892
enough to be able to hand it off, so I was. We got two generations

252
00:15:39,956 --> 00:15:43,756
under our belt and then it moved on to another group. But I was

253
00:15:43,788 --> 00:15:47,316
honored to be part of it and to participate in it.

254
00:15:47,348 --> 00:15:50,896
And you're right, you can't. It never leaves you

255
00:15:51,068 --> 00:15:54,576
like I'm here today because I love talking about it and hearing the

256
00:15:54,608 --> 00:15:58,232
philosophy about it. Even though I don't sell it every day anymore.

257
00:15:58,336 --> 00:16:02,152
I just love learning more and more as I can. So you just

258
00:16:02,176 --> 00:16:05,928
got done with on premiere. I think for the listeners we should. They've probably

259
00:16:05,984 --> 00:16:08,648
seen it around on the Internet, they probably saw it on LinkedIn, they probably saw

260
00:16:08,664 --> 00:16:12,208
it on Facebook or Instagram. That this idea of en premier,

261
00:16:12,384 --> 00:16:16,152
which, if you would give an explanation from the winery side of

262
00:16:16,176 --> 00:16:19,330
things, what happens during on premiere. So what

263
00:16:19,370 --> 00:16:23,194
happens is that we just showed last

264
00:16:23,242 --> 00:16:26,946
month, the last baby, the 23 vintage to

265
00:16:26,978 --> 00:16:30,802
the whole world. Everybody came and tasted and

266
00:16:30,906 --> 00:16:34,474
made its own opinion. And I think the quality

267
00:16:34,602 --> 00:16:38,162
is beautiful about this vintage. And people were.

268
00:16:38,266 --> 00:16:42,090
It gave a smile to everyone and everybody went back home

269
00:16:42,210 --> 00:16:45,898
thinking, wow, this is another great vintage of Bordeaux. How many people

270
00:16:45,954 --> 00:16:49,690
came through Obais? A few thousand. Really? Yes. In few

271
00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:53,554
days we welcome more than almost 3000 people. So that's a

272
00:16:53,562 --> 00:16:56,430
lot of people. But it's very

273
00:16:58,290 --> 00:17:01,986
energetic. You know, you get this energy and the fact that Bordeaux

274
00:17:02,018 --> 00:17:05,658
interests so many people around the world is just fascinating. And

275
00:17:05,754 --> 00:17:09,346
it was great to be able to show the level of quality of his

276
00:17:09,378 --> 00:17:13,226
vintage. And since few weeks we have the releases going on. So

277
00:17:13,258 --> 00:17:16,801
every day, a few chateau release their prize, and the consumer is

278
00:17:16,825 --> 00:17:20,553
able to buy our wines in advance

279
00:17:20,721 --> 00:17:23,993
in order to benefit from a good deal.

280
00:17:24,041 --> 00:17:27,401
Actually, the wine will be cheaper than what it will

281
00:17:27,425 --> 00:17:31,029
be when they find it in a few years on the shelves.

282
00:17:31,409 --> 00:17:35,097
And they can also choose the format they want to buy.

283
00:17:35,193 --> 00:17:38,337
So imagine you have a new baby or a

284
00:17:38,353 --> 00:17:42,105
grandchild, or if you get married and you want to get

285
00:17:42,137 --> 00:17:45,905
your wine in. Magnums, double magnums, double. Nine

286
00:17:45,937 --> 00:17:49,246
pound, 10oz. Exactly. So you can select your format.

287
00:17:49,318 --> 00:17:52,090
And that's something you should always do

288
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:55,010
to celebrate later on.

289
00:17:57,390 --> 00:18:00,970
Sitting here is an honor for me.

290
00:18:01,870 --> 00:18:05,530
There's few women in this industry.

291
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:09,870
I was talking to you earlier in the vineyard, about in America,

292
00:18:09,950 --> 00:18:12,930
the movement for women in wine is

293
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,992
a real movement. It's got a lot of traction. They're saying that now

294
00:18:19,056 --> 00:18:22,336
25% of the graduates of enology school are

295
00:18:22,368 --> 00:18:25,872
women, but in the executive ranks, we're at seven or

296
00:18:25,896 --> 00:18:29,592
8%. And there's a strong sense of

297
00:18:29,696 --> 00:18:33,280
changing that, moving the needle for that, I was very

298
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,580
honored. I had an intern

299
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,432
here in my office, and her job was to write the notes for all

300
00:18:41,456 --> 00:18:45,236
the podcasts I was doing with young women. Winemakers

301
00:18:45,388 --> 00:18:49,076
inspired her to go to school. So she's at Cornell University, getting her

302
00:18:49,108 --> 00:18:52,836
eenology degree today, and I feel good about that. I'm

303
00:18:52,868 --> 00:18:56,556
happy we're able to enlighten a young person to the

304
00:18:56,628 --> 00:19:00,160
value of a glass of wine. But in France,

305
00:19:00,460 --> 00:19:04,204
is it a structured movement? Because your

306
00:19:04,252 --> 00:19:07,360
position in this company is pretty rare.

307
00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:10,938
I mean, we can find the right ones. We'll talk about a couple of the

308
00:19:11,044 --> 00:19:14,878
historical women in this business. But is it rare right now for somebody in

309
00:19:14,894 --> 00:19:18,558
your position as a female? I think it's a natural movement, and

310
00:19:18,574 --> 00:19:21,530
it's more and more women joining the industry

311
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:27,086
in every field can be in the vineyard, can be in the cellar, it can

312
00:19:27,118 --> 00:19:30,726
be selling wine, or even managing an

313
00:19:30,758 --> 00:19:33,990
estate. So when I had this

314
00:19:34,030 --> 00:19:37,654
opportunity more than 25 years ago, it was thanks

315
00:19:37,702 --> 00:19:41,408
to the Odas of an American, Bob Willmers,

316
00:19:41,504 --> 00:19:45,120
who bought the estate to my family, and who trusted

317
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,072
a young girl. But that was very new and

318
00:19:49,096 --> 00:19:52,780
very audacious at that time. And I always considered that

319
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,872
to be a woman was an advantage. You are seated next to

320
00:19:56,896 --> 00:20:00,400
the most interesting guys, and then you listen

321
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,256
and you learn. And today you have more

322
00:20:04,288 --> 00:20:07,824
and more women everywhere. I believe also in

323
00:20:07,872 --> 00:20:11,450
complementarity. And at Aubai,

324
00:20:11,530 --> 00:20:15,058
what is very interesting is that in the field,

325
00:20:15,194 --> 00:20:18,602
we have 50% of men, 50% of women in the

326
00:20:18,626 --> 00:20:22,386
cellar, the same, in the offices, the same. Although

327
00:20:22,458 --> 00:20:26,106
I'm against parity. I think you have jobs where men are better,

328
00:20:26,178 --> 00:20:29,950
jobs where women are better. But just by luck or

329
00:20:30,330 --> 00:20:34,150
by the belief of complementarity, we are 50 50

330
00:20:34,690 --> 00:20:38,430
everywhere in the company. Well, it's by skill set, by

331
00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:41,558
the fact that you can do the job. We don't care. We're just going to

332
00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:45,222
hire the best people for the job. You know, the woman I mentioned earlier when

333
00:20:45,246 --> 00:20:48,886
we started the show, it was a true story. She came in to sell me

334
00:20:48,918 --> 00:20:52,030
wine. I thought, this young lady's never going to make it. And she was very

335
00:20:52,110 --> 00:20:55,958
tough, still a very pleasant young lady. And we have a great

336
00:20:56,014 --> 00:20:59,806
relationship post our careers because of this work she

337
00:20:59,838 --> 00:21:03,610
did. But I thought, man, this is a dog eat dog world. And she

338
00:21:04,150 --> 00:21:08,000
tells the story about how difficult the latter

339
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,712
rungs were for her career to path where she went. I mean,

340
00:21:11,736 --> 00:21:15,336
she really, really worked hard. And I truly believe the success of my

341
00:21:15,368 --> 00:21:19,208
company was partially on her back because she

342
00:21:19,264 --> 00:21:22,432
produced for me when I needed her to do. But you wrote in a previous

343
00:21:22,496 --> 00:21:25,780
interview he had the audacity to hire a girl.

344
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,568
So we have to give him credit for having audacity. Right? At the same time,

345
00:21:30,624 --> 00:21:34,432
that's very american. Yes, that's true. But there are

346
00:21:34,456 --> 00:21:38,304
women throughout history. I mean, Madame Clicquot was, she was

347
00:21:38,352 --> 00:21:42,048
one sharp young woman who created a market for herself

348
00:21:42,104 --> 00:21:45,920
in the russian world of champagne in England and

349
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,752
cutting edge ideas. Maileon Lanka

350
00:21:49,776 --> 00:21:53,592
song who we talked about, who was at Pichon Longueville. I mean, unbelievable

351
00:21:53,656 --> 00:21:57,120
fortitude. Do you think it takes more fortitude for a woman to

352
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,984
accelerate in this industry than it does maybe in France or in England? I mean,

353
00:22:01,032 --> 00:22:04,266
compared to the United States? I think it's a

354
00:22:04,298 --> 00:22:08,130
natural movement, you know, and things are

355
00:22:08,170 --> 00:22:11,554
happening because it should happen. But

356
00:22:11,722 --> 00:22:15,522
no, I think in the history of obey,

357
00:22:15,586 --> 00:22:19,250
you had amazing women in the 18th century, and not just

358
00:22:19,290 --> 00:22:23,082
for a few years, but for 30 years. One woman was running au Bailey

359
00:22:23,106 --> 00:22:26,762
in a very sharp, really? At Obaili. Yes. And you also had

360
00:22:26,786 --> 00:22:30,110
women taking care of the vineyard during the war,

361
00:22:30,730 --> 00:22:33,710
if you're thinking of the war vintages. And

362
00:22:34,690 --> 00:22:38,490
yesterday, a great american friend

363
00:22:38,650 --> 00:22:42,150
from San Francisco brought back to obey

364
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:46,330
a 1918 bottle that we shared

365
00:22:46,370 --> 00:22:50,138
during lunch. And that was so moving because last year of

366
00:22:50,154 --> 00:22:53,986
the first world War and the wine, 106 years old,

367
00:22:54,098 --> 00:22:57,596
Washington picking it, was alive. It was, it was

368
00:22:57,628 --> 00:23:01,220
just a bubble of incredible aromas.

369
00:23:01,340 --> 00:23:04,772
And the wine was telling a story, you know, and the bottle, which has been

370
00:23:04,796 --> 00:23:08,284
traveling the world during maybe a century, was just coming back here.

371
00:23:08,412 --> 00:23:12,180
That was quite an adventure. Also, at the beginning of the week. This

372
00:23:12,220 --> 00:23:16,028
week. That is really fun. Yeah, well, you think about that. That kind

373
00:23:16,044 --> 00:23:19,644
of goes back to the earlier conversation about, wow, what is so special about wine?

374
00:23:19,692 --> 00:23:23,266
Here? We're celebrating the homecoming, an old

375
00:23:23,298 --> 00:23:26,738
vintage. And the wine was probably made by women. Yeah. Oh, really? So

376
00:23:26,754 --> 00:23:30,570
that's. Wow. At the end of the first world War, you didn't have many men

377
00:23:30,610 --> 00:23:34,350
left. So the history of au Bailey goes back to where.

378
00:23:35,130 --> 00:23:37,870
The history of Obaili goes back to

379
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:41,750
probably 800 years. Because we have.

380
00:23:42,050 --> 00:23:45,354
It's very difficult to find written proofs of the existence of

381
00:23:45,402 --> 00:23:48,868
vinesen before 13

382
00:23:49,004 --> 00:23:51,160
something. But we have found

383
00:23:52,260 --> 00:23:56,076
lots of written documents showing us what

384
00:23:56,108 --> 00:23:59,868
was obey from the 13th, 14th century.

385
00:24:00,004 --> 00:24:03,612
Before that, we know the vines were existing, but we don't know

386
00:24:03,636 --> 00:24:07,212
exactly to who it belonged, etcetera. So it's a

387
00:24:07,236 --> 00:24:11,076
parisian banker called Firmin Lebay, who fell

388
00:24:11,108 --> 00:24:14,716
in love with the existing vines and gave his name to the estate in

389
00:24:14,748 --> 00:24:18,348
1630. And since 1630, the estate

390
00:24:18,444 --> 00:24:21,852
stayed the same. Superficies, which is very unique in

391
00:24:21,876 --> 00:24:25,452
Bordeaux. And then you had always

392
00:24:25,556 --> 00:24:29,240
very charismatic owners, strong personalities.

393
00:24:29,980 --> 00:24:33,364
In the 18th century, you even had the mayor of Bordeaux, mister

394
00:24:33,412 --> 00:24:36,660
Laforet de Montbadon. And then came an

395
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:40,276
incredible man called Alcide bellot de Meniere.

396
00:24:40,388 --> 00:24:44,062
He was the hero of a novel called Heirlo des

397
00:24:44,086 --> 00:24:47,742
Grandieres, and his nickname was the king of Vintners.

398
00:24:47,926 --> 00:24:51,710
And he bought a bay in 1872. He built this house, which

399
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:55,382
is completely 19th century. And he

400
00:24:55,406 --> 00:24:58,718
plants the vineyard with his own recipe, a fil

401
00:24:58,774 --> 00:25:02,590
blend, having one 6th of Merlot, sorry,

402
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:06,438
112 of Merlot, one 12th of Cabernet franc, one 12th of

403
00:25:06,454 --> 00:25:10,134
Petit Verdot, same thing of Carbonaire and Malbec, and

404
00:25:10,182 --> 00:25:13,930
712 of Cabernet Sauvignon. And we still have

405
00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:18,756
what he planted, 120. That's amazing. Yes. So the

406
00:25:18,828 --> 00:25:22,140
real field blend, I mean, at that time, he was probably picking at the same

407
00:25:22,180 --> 00:25:25,940
time and crushing altogether and making. It's pretty unusual these

408
00:25:25,980 --> 00:25:29,708
days. Well, no, actually, it was the way Bordeaux was doing the

409
00:25:29,764 --> 00:25:33,276
blend wines at that time, and we all forgot that, but the blend was done

410
00:25:33,308 --> 00:25:36,748
in the field. So it's actually one of the last plots around

411
00:25:36,804 --> 00:25:40,642
Bordeaux, which is still done in that way. And so

412
00:25:40,746 --> 00:25:44,482
you don't. We were talking about it outside. You now try to pick

413
00:25:44,546 --> 00:25:48,270
the varietals at different points of ripeness, so that each

414
00:25:48,690 --> 00:25:52,490
cluster is ripe depending on what grape it is. But

415
00:25:52,570 --> 00:25:56,098
there's something interesting that hit me when you were discussing that. That is,

416
00:25:56,274 --> 00:26:00,058
even though you're picking them at different times, and so it might look like it's

417
00:26:00,074 --> 00:26:03,682
just another plot. There has to be some kind of value to the idea that

418
00:26:03,706 --> 00:26:06,824
these vines are growing with each other, even though they're different

419
00:26:06,872 --> 00:26:10,568
grapes. There's an influence between them that

420
00:26:10,584 --> 00:26:14,176
would change those grapes than if they're on their own. There are

421
00:26:14,248 --> 00:26:18,088
two things, I think. The complexity it brings

422
00:26:18,184 --> 00:26:21,672
by the fact that it's planted together. And there is something

423
00:26:21,776 --> 00:26:25,616
happening which definitely brings complexity. And there is the fact

424
00:26:25,648 --> 00:26:28,976
that they are very old. And what is

425
00:26:29,008 --> 00:26:32,784
fascinating with this very old vineyard is that they are able to

426
00:26:32,832 --> 00:26:36,600
handle everything. They don't have disease. They

427
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,472
always produce regularly. They don't produce very much, but they

428
00:26:40,496 --> 00:26:44,340
are so consistent. They are always, always

429
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,500
responding. How do you say that? Delivering.

430
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:53,736
So it's quite fascinating to see that those old vines have

431
00:26:53,768 --> 00:26:57,104
a strength and a power which is just

432
00:26:57,152 --> 00:27:00,972
incredible. And the wine we get from those vines

433
00:27:01,136 --> 00:27:04,964
is just so full, so complete, so intense,

434
00:27:05,132 --> 00:27:08,780
very deep. So it's the heart of our blend every

435
00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:12,060
single year. So you start with those that

436
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:15,628
plot. How many hectares is the field blend? Four.

437
00:27:15,764 --> 00:27:19,548
So about ten acres. You start with

438
00:27:19,564 --> 00:27:23,252
that as the basic part of your cuve.

439
00:27:23,436 --> 00:27:27,134
And then you add and subtract from that to create a.

440
00:27:27,172 --> 00:27:31,002
Well, it's so intense and complex that on

441
00:27:31,026 --> 00:27:34,762
its own, it's almost too powerful. So you have to

442
00:27:34,866 --> 00:27:38,434
add, you know, and that the fascinating thing of making a blend,

443
00:27:38,562 --> 00:27:42,354
it's like being a perfumer and create something. And you take

444
00:27:42,402 --> 00:27:46,058
10% of that, which will add a little bit of lightness,

445
00:27:46,194 --> 00:27:50,018
10% of that, which will bring the floral

446
00:27:50,074 --> 00:27:53,590
aspect of the wine. And then you build it all about

447
00:27:53,890 --> 00:27:57,616
to keep the same style. And that is something which

448
00:27:57,648 --> 00:28:01,432
is very dear to obey, is that we

449
00:28:01,496 --> 00:28:04,860
never follow the fashion. We never go in

450
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,000
too many different rows, but

451
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,780
we always try to keep our style, because

452
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,856
fashion change, but style lasts. Oh,

453
00:28:17,888 --> 00:28:21,224
I like that. Fashion changes, but style lasts. I'm going to write that down. I'm

454
00:28:21,232 --> 00:28:25,032
going to put that down. And that's part of the

455
00:28:25,056 --> 00:28:27,564
conversation. But before we. Before we get there, and I wrote it down so I

456
00:28:27,572 --> 00:28:30,892
don't forget this, the complexity of your wines

457
00:28:30,996 --> 00:28:34,756
is not overshadowed by the fact that the complexity of running

458
00:28:34,788 --> 00:28:38,284
this organization. In other words, we have this wonderful product. It's so romantic. We put

459
00:28:38,292 --> 00:28:41,492
it in the bottle, we share it, and we converse over. We taste the

460
00:28:41,556 --> 00:28:45,380
1918 and we fall in love again. But that takes

461
00:28:45,420 --> 00:28:48,428
a lot of work, and there's a lot of moving parts to doing this. Here

462
00:28:48,444 --> 00:28:51,124
we are in this wonderful chateau. You've got a tasting room. I saw a group

463
00:28:51,172 --> 00:28:54,936
go in. We have our tasting after this, you've got a seller. I mean,

464
00:28:54,968 --> 00:28:58,528
these are a lot of moving parts. How does one

465
00:28:58,704 --> 00:29:02,304
manage that leading to this? You said

466
00:29:02,432 --> 00:29:06,000
there was an intellectual complexity that you learned at

467
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,752
school that allowed you to be able to step in and do

468
00:29:09,776 --> 00:29:13,380
this role. What does that mean exactly? Well, I think

469
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,140
to run a place like that,

470
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,798
you need a diverse competence. You need

471
00:29:22,814 --> 00:29:25,250
to be able to understand what's going on in the field

472
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:30,014
and also understand how the weather works. You need

473
00:29:30,062 --> 00:29:33,450
to know how to vinify wine. You need

474
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:39,094
to have a certain charisma to lead a team and make

475
00:29:39,142 --> 00:29:42,790
them give the best of themselves every single day.

476
00:29:42,830 --> 00:29:46,398
Because the great strength of obey

477
00:29:46,494 --> 00:29:50,122
is a wonderful team working by passion,

478
00:29:50,206 --> 00:29:54,026
you know, everywhere. And I'm very, very proud of our

479
00:29:54,058 --> 00:29:57,562
team. But you also need to be able to meet people from all over the

480
00:29:57,586 --> 00:30:00,990
world. We are selling our wine in 80 different countries,

481
00:30:01,330 --> 00:30:05,122
so happy to see american friends. But we also

482
00:30:05,186 --> 00:30:08,818
have people coming from Asia, from England,

483
00:30:08,874 --> 00:30:12,698
from all over Europe. And that the fascinating thing is that we are

484
00:30:12,714 --> 00:30:16,230
able to travel and meet great people. So

485
00:30:16,930 --> 00:30:20,306
the way I'm running this company is that I

486
00:30:20,338 --> 00:30:23,580
believe in the. In the collective

487
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,248
competence. And everybody brings things, and we are

488
00:30:30,304 --> 00:30:34,112
permanently analyzing what we are doing, and we

489
00:30:34,136 --> 00:30:37,856
are always doubting, how can we do better, how can

490
00:30:37,888 --> 00:30:40,900
we do, how can we go further, higher,

491
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,456
faster? Because the world is changing, our environment is

492
00:30:45,488 --> 00:30:48,630
changing. And you should note, keep

493
00:30:49,050 --> 00:30:52,730
or stay on set recipes. You have to adapt

494
00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:56,370
permanently. We also believe in the japanese philosophy of

495
00:30:56,410 --> 00:31:00,106
Kaizen, you know, the permanent evolution,

496
00:31:00,298 --> 00:31:03,922
adaptation. And that's extremely important. And that the way you're

497
00:31:03,946 --> 00:31:07,770
making great wines, because if you have in mind what you're going

498
00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:11,522
to. The way you're going to cook next time with certain product, or

499
00:31:11,546 --> 00:31:15,292
the way you're going to harvest, you're wrong. Because

500
00:31:15,356 --> 00:31:18,468
things are changing around you. So you have to have a fresh

501
00:31:18,524 --> 00:31:21,480
mentality, a fresh spirit, and

502
00:31:21,780 --> 00:31:25,572
invent, create every day. That's the humility of it all, isn't that

503
00:31:25,596 --> 00:31:29,356
you have to. Your ideas of the future are already wrong before you start

504
00:31:29,388 --> 00:31:33,068
them, right? Exactly. Yes, but that's, you know, that's. You

505
00:31:33,084 --> 00:31:36,716
said very eloquently and very articulate. You articulated that

506
00:31:36,748 --> 00:31:40,356
concept very well. It's easier said than done. We have people

507
00:31:40,428 --> 00:31:43,440
involved, which is always, you know, always an issue.

508
00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:47,212
You've got the weather, you've got the. All the different pieces that are

509
00:31:47,236 --> 00:31:50,956
moving, and you have to be able to balance those. You went to

510
00:31:50,988 --> 00:31:54,372
Sorbonne, you studied nothing that dealt with

511
00:31:54,396 --> 00:31:57,960
wine. And maybe that's the value of your education

512
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:01,724
later. I studied wine later. Yeah. So you studied

513
00:32:01,772 --> 00:32:05,540
economics, and so you have a bird's eye view of some of

514
00:32:05,580 --> 00:32:09,414
this that's going on. So this is a part of

515
00:32:09,422 --> 00:32:12,894
the wine business that frustrates me. I wish it was a

516
00:32:12,942 --> 00:32:16,598
product that transcended profit and that we only

517
00:32:16,654 --> 00:32:19,750
got to make the things that we are

518
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:23,570
expressing exactly what we cannot express. But we are in a business.

519
00:32:24,270 --> 00:32:27,502
You know, the Ottany group out of the Rhone Valley, it's

520
00:32:27,686 --> 00:32:31,366
fine wine think tank. Nicole rollet, I think, is

521
00:32:31,398 --> 00:32:35,142
the president, and I had that conversation with them, and it's

522
00:32:35,166 --> 00:32:38,734
like the consumer has always driven the wine business.

523
00:32:38,862 --> 00:32:42,470
Let's take Madame Clicquot. She made a slightly sweeter

524
00:32:42,510 --> 00:32:45,942
cuvet for the Russians than she did for the English, that kind of thing.

525
00:32:46,126 --> 00:32:49,330
And obviously, very important. But

526
00:32:50,190 --> 00:32:53,894
when you talk about style, doesn't. Style is permanent, and fashion

527
00:32:53,942 --> 00:32:56,730
comes and goes. Are we talking about

528
00:32:57,750 --> 00:33:01,280
the. The makeup of the wine, the, let's say, the sugar

529
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,056
content? Are we talking about how we market the wine when we're

530
00:33:05,088 --> 00:33:08,848
trying to evolve the business? Are we maintaining a

531
00:33:08,864 --> 00:33:12,180
very straight focus on the best wine we can make from the terroir?

532
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,664
And then the innovation comes in getting it to the customer,

533
00:33:16,832 --> 00:33:20,408
or is the innovation in figuring out what the

534
00:33:20,424 --> 00:33:24,216
customer wants? I think you have to respect your

535
00:33:24,248 --> 00:33:27,972
terroir first and to give the chance to the

536
00:33:28,036 --> 00:33:31,652
terroir to express itself, because what is

537
00:33:31,756 --> 00:33:34,948
extremely important, more than anything, is the

538
00:33:35,004 --> 00:33:38,084
identity. If you lose your

539
00:33:38,132 --> 00:33:41,876
identity, you lose your customer. Why

540
00:33:41,908 --> 00:33:45,380
do people drink, obey? It's because they love the style

541
00:33:45,420 --> 00:33:49,164
of elegance. Fine tannins,

542
00:33:49,332 --> 00:33:52,600
very silky tannins, nothing aggressive.

543
00:33:52,910 --> 00:33:56,078
Something which is built to last

544
00:33:56,134 --> 00:33:59,398
forever. So the longevity of the

545
00:33:59,414 --> 00:34:03,206
wine. And if you are not true or

546
00:34:03,238 --> 00:34:06,806
respectful to your own identity, you lose

547
00:34:06,838 --> 00:34:10,326
it. You lose your customers. So it's very important

548
00:34:10,478 --> 00:34:13,770
both to respect your terroir and to keep your style.

549
00:34:14,390 --> 00:34:18,046
Wow, that's complicated. Respectively keep

550
00:34:18,078 --> 00:34:21,705
your style. So that. And I've learned this

551
00:34:21,777 --> 00:34:25,369
more. I've gotten closer to understanding this because of this

552
00:34:25,409 --> 00:34:29,081
trip only. And that is, you've got to

553
00:34:29,145 --> 00:34:32,753
keep that steady eye on what Obaee

554
00:34:32,841 --> 00:34:36,185
is and what it means to the consumer and the

555
00:34:36,217 --> 00:34:40,001
consumer. And this is my true belief in the wine business, comes to

556
00:34:40,025 --> 00:34:43,849
obeyee and learns and then understands it. Not that

557
00:34:43,889 --> 00:34:47,470
we decide to make something we think they're going to like. Yes,

558
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:50,770
because also, we are making wine for today.

559
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:55,150
Today, we have to make the best wine we can do today with the

560
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:58,686
technology of today, the weather of today, with the

561
00:34:58,718 --> 00:35:02,406
terroir we cherish. But most of our wines will

562
00:35:02,438 --> 00:35:06,134
be drunk in 1015 2050

563
00:35:06,262 --> 00:35:09,686
years. So if you are

564
00:35:09,798 --> 00:35:13,396
trying to follow the taste of the consumer of today, you're wrong.

565
00:35:13,508 --> 00:35:17,260
You're completely wrong. You know, Aubai is above

566
00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:20,396
that. The top wines of Bordeaux are

567
00:35:20,508 --> 00:35:24,320
above following the consumer. We have to think

568
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:28,348
further. And for the long term, I

569
00:35:28,364 --> 00:35:32,100
think. As such a refreshing. And

570
00:35:32,180 --> 00:35:35,916
I'm not going to say that the american wine industry is not doing

571
00:35:35,948 --> 00:35:39,280
that as well. There's certainly vineyards in Napa, Sonoma,

572
00:35:39,820 --> 00:35:43,492
central Coast, that follow that philosophy. It

573
00:35:43,516 --> 00:35:46,996
has to be. But at the same time, the most popular

574
00:35:47,068 --> 00:35:50,868
wines in the industry are these sort of formula wines. They

575
00:35:50,924 --> 00:35:54,140
follow some kind of structure of a

576
00:35:54,180 --> 00:35:57,380
palatable character, a consumer driven

577
00:35:57,460 --> 00:36:00,800
palette, and it's fine. I think we need those

578
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:04,960
to bring people to wine that otherwise weren't drinking wine.

579
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:09,292
But it ebbs and flows, because by. Experience,

580
00:36:09,436 --> 00:36:12,560
I know when a wine is great, it makes unanimity.

581
00:36:14,380 --> 00:36:17,040
I can tell you when you have a great wine,

582
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:21,572
usually there is a silence around the

583
00:36:21,596 --> 00:36:25,356
table, because there is emotion. And this emotion is

584
00:36:25,388 --> 00:36:29,020
created by the fact you just did the best you can do.

585
00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:32,420
You have a great wow. You respect it. And then you deliver an amazing

586
00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:36,194
wine and it always makes unanimity. That's so

587
00:36:36,242 --> 00:36:38,990
fun. Is that. But do you think

588
00:36:39,690 --> 00:36:43,162
that part of the aristocracy of wine and

589
00:36:43,306 --> 00:36:46,642
the people, that. And it's a very important part of the

590
00:36:46,666 --> 00:36:49,666
consumerism is everybody looks at wine, particularly

591
00:36:49,818 --> 00:36:53,442
utwine, that, oh, you guys are snobs. You talk about, you

592
00:36:53,466 --> 00:36:57,122
say words that you don't. We don't understand. And I don't understand when you say

593
00:36:57,266 --> 00:37:00,870
cedar box and leather. Sometimes I think we

594
00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:04,726
propagate our own aristocracy around the wine

595
00:37:04,758 --> 00:37:07,850
industry. But on the flip side,

596
00:37:09,070 --> 00:37:12,806
that's what it's about. It's the understanding of this

597
00:37:12,838 --> 00:37:16,590
complexity and saying, wow, I may not be able to define it yet,

598
00:37:16,630 --> 00:37:20,382
but, man, I sure taste it. Yeah. I think

599
00:37:20,406 --> 00:37:23,610
what is the most important thing is, do I love it or not?

600
00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:27,316
Does it speak to me or nothing? When I'm tasting in

601
00:37:27,348 --> 00:37:30,920
1918, or at the beginning of my career, I had

602
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,932
in Miami, an american collector served me in a

603
00:37:34,956 --> 00:37:38,796
blind tasting, obey 64 from Magnum.

604
00:37:38,988 --> 00:37:42,460
I didn't know what it was, but I put my nose in the glass and

605
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:45,828
I knew I was at home. And

606
00:37:45,924 --> 00:37:49,652
then I had the feeling my great grandfather was talking to me,

607
00:37:49,676 --> 00:37:53,516
although he was already not anymore on this planet. That's really

608
00:37:53,548 --> 00:37:56,828
cool. And then I had the feeling I was transported into space.

609
00:37:56,964 --> 00:38:00,732
So it's about an emotion, and

610
00:38:00,756 --> 00:38:04,532
a great wine provides an emotion. It can just make

611
00:38:04,556 --> 00:38:08,212
you think of something you had this year. It can just provide

612
00:38:08,356 --> 00:38:12,040
a moment where you feel, wow, this is a unique moment.

613
00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:16,220
So happy to be here. My family, my friends,

614
00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:19,640
and this wine is bringing something

615
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:23,334
more, you know, to the conversation, to the spirits of

616
00:38:23,372 --> 00:38:26,954
experiential. We were in Paris about, I think it

617
00:38:26,962 --> 00:38:30,150
was about ten years ago, and just a regular

618
00:38:30,610 --> 00:38:34,458
tourist cafe. I ordered the quiche and they put

619
00:38:34,474 --> 00:38:37,306
it in front of me, and my wife looked at me, she goes, what's wrong

620
00:38:37,338 --> 00:38:41,122
with you? I said, nothing. I said, this took me back 40 years, because my

621
00:38:41,146 --> 00:38:44,498
mother was a very good cook and she made the same Tyle quiche. And I

622
00:38:44,514 --> 00:38:48,162
just took one smell and I go, I haven't smelled this for. Since my

623
00:38:48,186 --> 00:38:51,972
childhood. And wine does that all the time, if you have a proper glass

624
00:38:51,996 --> 00:38:55,612
of wine. And we should educate young people

625
00:38:55,796 --> 00:38:59,492
to drink together, to share, to remember that when they open the

626
00:38:59,516 --> 00:39:03,316
bottle and you're not there anymore, they will think of you, because

627
00:39:03,428 --> 00:39:06,916
that the way, if you keep talking about people and

628
00:39:06,988 --> 00:39:10,108
having something in common through the

629
00:39:10,124 --> 00:39:13,740
wine, that keeps a

630
00:39:13,900 --> 00:39:17,506
memory alive. You know, I taught my son in laws about

631
00:39:17,658 --> 00:39:20,910
champagne in Obaee, and now it's costing me too much money.

632
00:39:22,450 --> 00:39:25,986
But the conversation, too, that's going on the Internet about the language of

633
00:39:26,018 --> 00:39:29,818
wine and innovation. And wine, and

634
00:39:29,834 --> 00:39:33,370
I don't mean innovation in how we manufacture, because

635
00:39:33,490 --> 00:39:36,922
everything you do here is to produce the best product you can from what you're

636
00:39:36,946 --> 00:39:40,714
given. I think the innovation they're talking about is either

637
00:39:40,762 --> 00:39:44,430
marketing or consumerism. And then the language.

638
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:47,758
And interesting conversation with Monsieur Clouet from Cheval

639
00:39:47,774 --> 00:39:51,102
Blanc, and that was. Yeah, you know, your

640
00:39:51,166 --> 00:39:54,622
father and my father described wines differently than we do

641
00:39:54,646 --> 00:39:58,446
today. And Michael Broadbent described wines

642
00:39:58,478 --> 00:40:01,934
in his generation different than we do today. And maybe Harry Waugh. And then you

643
00:40:01,942 --> 00:40:05,770
just keep going backwards to know that

644
00:40:06,270 --> 00:40:09,886
maybe that's what they mean. Because I still have yet to understand what changing the

645
00:40:09,918 --> 00:40:13,420
language of wine means, because if we change it to something else, then

646
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,860
somebody else isn't going to understand it either. So I'm not sure. Have you

647
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,080
followed this or heard people talking about changing the language of wine? Yes,

648
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,568
but before that, the taste of wine changed.

649
00:40:25,704 --> 00:40:29,376
Well, that's true, too. The wines my great

650
00:40:29,408 --> 00:40:33,060
grandfather did is not the wine we are doing today.

651
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,496
There is always the identity of the estate, which is

652
00:40:37,528 --> 00:40:41,064
there, but we are working in a very different way.

653
00:40:41,232 --> 00:40:43,824
And I remember when my grandfather tasted

654
00:40:43,872 --> 00:40:47,440
2005, he told me, God, this is

655
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,056
probably the best wine we ever made. And I said, come on, you

656
00:40:51,088 --> 00:40:54,856
did beautiful vintages, like 61, 64 and so many

657
00:40:54,888 --> 00:40:58,656
others, 89, 90. And he said, yes, but nature gave

658
00:40:58,688 --> 00:41:01,960
it to us all. And today you have

659
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,736
nature, but you have the way you're working with so

660
00:41:05,768 --> 00:41:08,836
much care, precision, technology that

661
00:41:09,008 --> 00:41:12,708
able, that helped you do wines which are

662
00:41:12,764 --> 00:41:16,404
just spectacular. And it is true that in Bordeaux,

663
00:41:16,492 --> 00:41:20,228
we did a series of more than 20 vintages which are just

664
00:41:20,284 --> 00:41:23,612
exceptional. So the taste of wine is also

665
00:41:23,676 --> 00:41:27,452
changing. And all

666
00:41:27,476 --> 00:41:30,700
of our jobs changed

667
00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:34,476
incredibly in the last 20 years. We just welcomed a few

668
00:41:34,508 --> 00:41:38,312
months ago, our first robot in the vines. And the new

669
00:41:38,336 --> 00:41:41,780
seller we have is a concentrate of innovation

670
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:45,736
at the service of tradition. And you're right in

671
00:41:45,768 --> 00:41:49,560
distribution, marketing, everything. We have so

672
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,392
many more ways of talking to people who love

673
00:41:53,416 --> 00:41:56,920
wine and who love our wine. It's fascinating, but it's

674
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,648
at every step that things are changing, and changing

675
00:42:00,744 --> 00:42:03,740
in a very fast way. Very fast.

676
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,140
Like I told you, my business relied on the Internet

677
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,776
to sell wine, which we did for. My first website was

678
00:42:11,808 --> 00:42:15,608
1997. I sent 33

679
00:42:15,664 --> 00:42:19,312
million emails in 2022. So just to

680
00:42:19,336 --> 00:42:22,888
sell, and my wines were $15 to $18. They weren't expensive

681
00:42:22,944 --> 00:42:26,504
wine. And so I'm trying to figure out, when they talk about innovation,

682
00:42:26,632 --> 00:42:30,414
you're innovating on the processing side and the experiential side is we

683
00:42:30,422 --> 00:42:34,142
were almost out of time. It's unbelievable. But I'm not sure what

684
00:42:34,166 --> 00:42:37,998
they mean by innovation in that. I guess they're like, for

685
00:42:38,014 --> 00:42:41,846
instance, I don't think putting your camera on a bottle of 19 crimes

686
00:42:41,878 --> 00:42:45,406
and getting a moving character is

687
00:42:45,438 --> 00:42:49,230
innovation in the wine business. That's just sizzle marketing stuff. I mean,

688
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:52,542
who cares about that? But the idea of

689
00:42:52,566 --> 00:42:55,902
innovation, maybe they mean what you're doing in

690
00:42:55,926 --> 00:42:59,754
the. So I'm not getting anywhere with this part of

691
00:42:59,762 --> 00:43:02,430
the conversation because I'm not sure what they mean by this,

692
00:43:03,730 --> 00:43:07,378
because I think wine is such a romantic and experiential

693
00:43:07,434 --> 00:43:10,270
product, and maybe I'll just move into that

694
00:43:11,050 --> 00:43:14,830
because of my experience on the Internet and because the Internet has created

695
00:43:15,570 --> 00:43:18,898
bargain shoppers. Now, let's say, I know I want Obaee

696
00:43:18,954 --> 00:43:22,744
2005 because of this conversation. I

697
00:43:22,752 --> 00:43:25,576
can go to the Internet and buy it, right? But that's not the experience of

698
00:43:25,608 --> 00:43:28,820
the Obaee, that's because of the price.

699
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,140
But if I really. I really think the wine business is going back to

700
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,232
those days. My father was the president of a Les Amis devant

701
00:43:37,296 --> 00:43:40,704
chapter in California, and they had dinners.

702
00:43:40,872 --> 00:43:44,696
They exposed the people to wine in its infancy in California

703
00:43:44,728 --> 00:43:48,432
in the seventies, when we just started, so to speak. And I really believe, from

704
00:43:48,456 --> 00:43:52,080
a marketing standpoint, what you do, which is traveling the world,

705
00:43:52,940 --> 00:43:56,708
going to the different expos? Pouring the glasses, I mean, shocking. You

706
00:43:56,724 --> 00:44:00,204
were in LA, pouring your own wines is really going

707
00:44:00,252 --> 00:44:03,716
backwards to the days of. I had this experience

708
00:44:03,868 --> 00:44:07,332
with Veronique. That's important part

709
00:44:07,356 --> 00:44:11,200
of my appreciation for the brand.

710
00:44:11,620 --> 00:44:14,996
Do you sense that? I love that,

711
00:44:15,068 --> 00:44:18,910
actually, I love to be close to people

712
00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:23,002
who will buy and drink our

713
00:44:23,026 --> 00:44:26,834
wine, because it's fabulous to be here

714
00:44:26,882 --> 00:44:30,730
at Obaya alone in your vineyard, or trying to best

715
00:44:30,770 --> 00:44:34,202
the best wine ever for the generation to

716
00:44:34,226 --> 00:44:37,970
come. But when you have the opportunity to meet the people who love

717
00:44:38,010 --> 00:44:41,370
what you're doing, to exchange about it, to

718
00:44:41,410 --> 00:44:45,072
share the passion, I think

719
00:44:45,096 --> 00:44:48,300
it's great. I love it. It's a reward.

720
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,400
That's a great way to look at it. I think it's critical

721
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,224
now the wine industry is in a bad place, generally, worldwide. I'm very

722
00:44:56,272 --> 00:44:59,800
happy you had a wonderful elm premier because people came

723
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,264
and you experienced it. There are other wineries in this region that didn't have such

724
00:45:03,312 --> 00:45:06,896
success during the Elm premier. But in general, wine consumption is

725
00:45:06,928 --> 00:45:10,776
down. The millennials don't do it as much. The Gen Zs, nobody

726
00:45:10,808 --> 00:45:14,226
knows what they're doing, their drink. What I don't understand about those

727
00:45:14,258 --> 00:45:18,018
people is they talk about organic and biodynamic and they want fresh food and

728
00:45:18,034 --> 00:45:20,594
they go to whole foods and they go to these markets, but then they drink

729
00:45:20,642 --> 00:45:24,290
stuff like white claw, which is full of artificial ingredients and bubbly.

730
00:45:24,370 --> 00:45:26,190
You know, merd.

731
00:45:28,130 --> 00:45:31,746
The way we make wine in France is that you have a

732
00:45:31,778 --> 00:45:35,150
rule, and rule number one is that everything is forbidden.

733
00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:39,992
You can't irrigate, you can't protect your vines, you can't

734
00:45:40,056 --> 00:45:43,672
add anything in your wine. So that's a very important.

735
00:45:43,776 --> 00:45:47,264
Is that Bon de France? I mean, all the France, all over. France, we respect

736
00:45:47,352 --> 00:45:50,920
the character of the appellation de. So

737
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,264
if you are not respecting it, you are declassified.

738
00:45:54,432 --> 00:45:58,096
So that's something to keep in mind. When

739
00:45:58,128 --> 00:46:01,800
you make wine tastings with wine from

740
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,544
other wine regions in the world, it's a very different way

741
00:46:05,592 --> 00:46:09,306
of cultivating and producing. It's interesting that you said

742
00:46:09,338 --> 00:46:13,150
that, because this group we're with today,

743
00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:16,978
obviously, we live in California. There's very popular

744
00:46:17,034 --> 00:46:20,682
brands, and many entry level consumers

745
00:46:20,826 --> 00:46:23,590
will buy those brands because of their popularity. And

746
00:46:24,530 --> 00:46:27,786
there may be a sense of aristocracy if you have one of these

747
00:46:27,818 --> 00:46:31,510
brands. But now they're tasting structured, complex,

748
00:46:32,130 --> 00:46:35,670
terroir driven wines. Ever since we started on the right

749
00:46:35,710 --> 00:46:39,302
bank, and the comment was made last night at dinner at

750
00:46:39,326 --> 00:46:43,170
Lipop, which was, I'm starting to understand

751
00:46:43,950 --> 00:46:47,650
this idea of acid fruit, and

752
00:46:47,950 --> 00:46:51,542
sensing the terroir. And we had a wine

753
00:46:51,566 --> 00:46:55,078
yesterday at the La Lum de Pomeran, and the gentleman said,

754
00:46:55,174 --> 00:46:58,010
there's iron ore in the ground

755
00:46:58,390 --> 00:47:02,206
that's creating this character. And all of a sudden you go, bing. I get

756
00:47:02,238 --> 00:47:05,416
it now. You know, that flavor makes sense, what I'm

757
00:47:05,448 --> 00:47:09,184
tasting. So it's fascinating. But we're. Can you believe we're

758
00:47:09,192 --> 00:47:12,952
at 48 minutes already? I hope we can do

759
00:47:12,976 --> 00:47:16,656
this again. We haven't even touched on. Look, I got three pages more notes to

760
00:47:16,688 --> 00:47:20,320
go over, but it's been a fascinating time

761
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,584
to sit with you and have this

762
00:47:23,752 --> 00:47:27,576
understanding of Obaee and your career and the

763
00:47:27,608 --> 00:47:31,244
things that it takes to be, I'm not going to say successful.

764
00:47:31,292 --> 00:47:34,892
To be recognized in this industry. It's not easy to

765
00:47:34,916 --> 00:47:38,500
do. Well. Thank you, Paul. I enjoyed speaking with you and

766
00:47:38,620 --> 00:47:42,364
always a pleasure to be. Cheers. Are you coming to LA soon? I know you

767
00:47:42,372 --> 00:47:46,148
got a lot of travel ahead of you, but yes, pretty. For sure in the

768
00:47:46,164 --> 00:47:49,524
coming months. I always loved LA with MMD or.

769
00:47:49,652 --> 00:47:53,196
MMD or just to show Bailee for a few

770
00:47:53,228 --> 00:47:56,660
tastings. I hope you stay in touch and we can regroup.

771
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:59,520
With great pleasure. Cheers. Cheers.

772
00:48:08,180 --> 00:48:11,540
Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul, Callum, Cary. And don't forget to

773
00:48:11,580 --> 00:48:14,740
subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way.

774
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:18,220
Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.