Transcript
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Carson Leno
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Fallon. Now it's
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wine talks with Paul K.
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Hey, welcome to wine talks with Paul K. And we are in the studio today
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about to have a conversation with Julie. And I always say.
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Delaquila. That too. If you say it in italian
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with the italian accent, it's different introductions.
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Hernandez. Hernandez. That's right. Oh, that would've been easier.
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Hey, listen. Have a listen to
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Chris Phelps. I just re released his episode. I completely
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forgotten about this winemaker in Napa Valley. If you're going
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up the highway 29, you make a hard left right inside
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St. Helena. Make a hard right after that, and you end up in this very
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understated tasting room where Chris Phelps and his son Josh
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make wines. And he had worked in the greatest
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places in the world to make wine and now makes wine in Napa. It's called
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ad Vivim. Incredible conversation and very philosophical
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about winemaking. Also in the studio last week was Matthew
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Borde from Chateau Lagrange Saint
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Julien, a classified growth Bordeaux. And here
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how he works in what is a very exclusive
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industry in Bordeaux, France, but for corporate
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Japan, actually for Suntory corporation. So you'll hear something very
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interesting from Matthew, but not why we're here. We're here to catch up with an
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old friend, an old, you know, I think almost
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a mentor to me. Right. Really? And,
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yes, and because of you, and I tell this story
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all the time. It's what business is
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about. And you've always said, this is
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like, I'm going to help you, and you
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never asked for help back, but we
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always wanted to help each other. We always wanted to grow each other. And I
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have to tell you, when you first came in here about 20 years ago.
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Sorry, I'm turning it off. 20. Was it 20
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years ago that you walked into actually, almost exactly where you're sitting right now?
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Yeah, probably like about maybe like 17 years ago, because
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I started in the chains and stuff like that. But, yeah, it's.
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It's been a long time. You realize, literally the studio where
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you're sitting is steps away from the day you walked in here
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with Bo and he introduced you. Yeah. You know what my
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thought was? What? You don't know? My thought was what?
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Oh, yeah. I tell you this already. I kind of heard it. But you, I
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think you were just like, oh, my gosh, who would
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emotion in here?
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I'm like, seriously? You know, wine warehouse.
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When they first came out to see me, a young girl came
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and I called the manager and said, look, you know, please don't send me somebody
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who's never done this before because I've been doing it too long, and I need,
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like, I don't want to educate anybody. That's not what I thought about
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you. But Beau had done a really good job before you
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came in, and so I was a little nervous. And what does that mean, a
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good job? You supported us. Well, it
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goes back to this. Business is all about relationships. You
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can't do anything without starting with a
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relationship. And then as you grow
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you, and, like, in that situation and
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you're bringing in somebody, you have to have that foundation and that
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platform where you've built that trust to where he could have
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brought me in through your relationship to be like, hey,
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give her a chance. Let her just come in and bring some
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wines. And. And I think our
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relationship has just been that. Like, I'm sure
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that was the impression of me, but I think
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probably our first meeting, I brought in wines, and I was just like, okay, what
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do you need? What price? Like, how many cases? Like,
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I just was straight with you, too, that I didn't know anything.
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Like, I was new and I'm just learning and, you know, so you
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teach me. Just tell me, like, what you're looking for. The price, the
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profile, all those things that as a
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salesperson, you can narrow down, you know, your
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suggestions and make it work. Not everybody's like that. I mean,
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sales is about matching what you have in your
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quiver to the customer's needs and, or creating the need in
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the customer's mind that what you have is important. So that's not
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natural for one. Salespeople have to learn that took me
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40 years to figure it out. And you were in a very,
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very large organization. And for the listeners, the
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wine and liquor business is rather
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strict or rather rigid in its format. There's not
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a lot of flexibility to run with. And then you add the layers of bureaucracy
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in corporate America, and it's even less flexible.
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And so when did you get. I don't remember having
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this conversation with you. But when did you get into working
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in this industry? Was it always corporate America? No. So
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this, like, whole industry fell out of the sky. It was.
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So what happened was, I'm in college. I actually wanted
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to act and model and do that. I went to Cal State
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Northridge. While I was there, I worked for, you know,
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quest diagnostics, the laboratory. I worked in the managed
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care department with all women, by the way. And then I also
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worked at a tanning salon. And at night I would go and I would do
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promo modeling, because at the time, you could put that on your resume that you
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were doing promo modeling. So, anyways,
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this managed care department, this department of women would literally
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just be like, hey, you go do what you need to do. Check in and
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out. So that's how I was able to get through school and get
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everything accomplished. But I knew that I needed to work my
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butt off to get whatever it was that I needed to get or
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to get where I was going. So, anyways, I would do these jobs
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at night, and this woman walks in, and she's wearing a
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black suit, and I'm probably wearing, like, my little black
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skirt, my little, like, black, you know, tequila t shirt,
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whatever brand it was, and high heels and walking
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around socializing with people, and she walks in a suit. You
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socializing with people? Shocking. So she walks
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in and she starts telling me what to do, and I'm like, so confused.
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Cause I'm like, oh, I don't know. My agency sent me here, and she's like,
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no, I'm the sales representative at this bar
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restaurant, and I booked the promotion so that you could
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help sell the brand. And I'm like, okay. I mean, it's just
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crazy how I had no idea. And, like, going
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through this business talking to people, they have no idea either, like,
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how anything gets behind the bar or why it's listed
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by the glass or by the bottle or what they're pouring you in their. Well,
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if you say, I want, like, a vodka soda, like, you don't know
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how that got there. So you were
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representing the tequila brand. That's why you're wearing the t shirt, and
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you showed up to do this bit. I'm working for the marketing company
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that the supplier. You just walk in the door like, okay, I'm here.
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So what happens is I'm like, I have this light bulb
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moment in my life. It's very clear where I'm like, why is she wearing
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that suit? And I'm wearing this outfit? It was all about the suit, really,
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that just empowered me to be like, okay, I need to go to the
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next level. So that weekend, I
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had a trade show, and I went past a
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gentleman that had, like, four six foot tables, and just, like,
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brand after brand lined up, and I went up to him, like,
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do you represent all these brands? Like, again, I have no clue. I
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have no clue just how anything is
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placed at this point. So he says yes. So I
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take down his info. Turns out it's one of the biggest distributors
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in California. And while looking
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at it, I find the other bigger competitor,
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and turns out I have an interview with both of them on
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the same day. Because you walked in and went to the booth?
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Well, no, because while researching it, I found the top
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two. So I applied it both, coincidentally, which
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I'm saying is more like a miracle. I have an interview with both
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companies. So the first interview, this kind of paints
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the picture for the future and stays with me throughout my
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entire career. It's my competitor. I go in there
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first, and it's like, in some general sales meeting room with tables
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all lined up, and it's three men in suits across
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from me, and I'm sitting by myself in a chair in front of them. Remember,
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I'm like some 22 year old girl. Like, I still have no clue, you know?
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I just know I want to get that job. Like, I want to be in
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that suit, making that money, right? So
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I just recall them, like, laughing and talking to each other
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while I was in the interview. And I just felt, like, so weird. Like, I
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don't even think they're listening to me. So I get my car, and I go
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to the next one. This is in an HR, like,
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office with a gentleman, and he sits me down. He's like, so what is it
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you want to do? And I'm like, oh, there was this girl in the bar,
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and she's wearing the suit. Like, literally went down like that. And he goes, he
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goes, you're talking about the on premise, like, restaurants, bars,
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hotels, clubs. I'm like, yeah, that was it. That sounds good. And he goes, yeah,
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you can't do that. And I'm like, oh, well, how do I get to do
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that? And he goes, you need to be in the chains for at least six
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months. I'm like, okay, well, what's that? And he's like, you gotta get up
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at. So you knew nothing? Two in the morning. You literally knew nothing. I know.
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You gotta get up at two in the morning, and you gotta stock the shelves
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and dust them. I'm like, okay, that's okay. I'll do
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that. And so he goes, hold on a second. He goes
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out, another gentleman comes in, he starts asking me questions.
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They go out again. They come back in, and they say, we like to hire
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you. So that company hired me on the spot. How did that
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feel? Like, right away? Did you expect that? And you were. I
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felt like. I feel like I've always kind of just known my
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purpose. Like, if I'm in the right moment, I just kind
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of. It's just like, right now, we're talking, like you're asking me
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questions, and we're just having a conversation.
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And I'm sure it was just like that with them, too, versus
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the other environment where it was just like, almost
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like, yeah, right. It was all makes sense. Yeah. You said that suit thing
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I want to go back to just for a second. And I worked for corporate
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America. I worked for Xerox. It was the greatest sales organization in the world at
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the time, or one of them, anyway. And one of our. My
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teammates, her husband owned a sporting goods store or worked at
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a sporting goods store, and he used to come to these events that Xerox hosted,
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and we'd all be wearing suits. And one day he pulled me aside, he
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goes, one day I'm gonna wear a suit, too. And I thought,
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you know, I didn't know any different. I just applied for the job. I got
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a job. I wore a suit. That's what you're supposed to do, I thought. But
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there was some kind of ambiance about that. There was some kind of
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aristocracy about seeing somebody in a suit for this gentleman
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that he aspired to do. That sounds like what was happening with you.
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Well, I think it goes back to a generation, too, like
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your parents, your dad being here, and
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it's a form of respect. And I,
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coming from a family that's very, you know, that's. It's important.
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So if that's the attire, that's what I'm gonna wear. You
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know, I don't. That. So that kind of
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goes into. I was immediately put in a male
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dominated business. Yeah, well, it is. There were not any females.
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I mean, it was very few females.
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Saleswomen. And then as far as leadership, there was none at that time.
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What year was that? Do you remember? So that was
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2004. Wow. It's well
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past. And I was in the corporate America in the eighties, and
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I had to apologize to every woman in my branch, all the salespeople. I
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had to apologize for. What would you do? Because I demonstrated a
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copier, and I alluded to the fact that any secretary
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could do this. And then later, I used her as the pronoun for
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secretaries, and the shit hit the fan. And I was told to
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write, and I had to stuff an apology letter in every key, every
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mail slot at the company saying, I did not mean to
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insinuate that secretaries are women and women are stupid. Yeah.
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So you're talking about 2004, and still there's nobody,
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nobody in corporate America. So maybe it's the liquor business,
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wine. Business, but the thing is, you see something right there where it's
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like every generation has the opportunity
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to make the change, and if you think about, like,
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I think about my managers. The best
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ones were the ones that had women around them,
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and the worst were the
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ones that if I raised my
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voice, I was screaming. If I made a certain face, I'm in a bad
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mood. You know what I mean? Like, never.
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I see. Yes. Yeah. So
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I feel like with what you're saying, too, like, it's important. It
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changes with each of us. And
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so did you feel like then, because of
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that role, because you saw that there was. I mean, you've been here how many
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years? I'm almost entirely staffed by women here. I
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always just work better with them. But did you feel
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like you had a task then to. I always had to prove
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myself. Cause it was always. It was always
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different, especially when you're younger. Like, I grew
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up in this business in my twenties and in my thirties,
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I didn't have my kids till I was
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36, and so
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I gave a lot to this business. And the thing is, is
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you have to give up a lot if you want to keep moving forward.
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And I remember feeling like, in my twenties,
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I was married to the job. Like, it was literally my husband. Like,
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it was just night and day and pretty much
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all the way through. COVID. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, that's why you acted
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here. So. So the chain work is probably the toughest work,
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and the chains for the listeners, I mean, you're. For the listeners. I don't understand
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that when it's what made Gallo famous is how they
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handled merchandising in these big stores. And so you were
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boots in the field. Yeah, you're in the field. You're in the field. You're fronting
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merchandise. You're basically getting up super early,
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and you're meeting all the trucks and all the pallets
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come out into the aisles, and you're just throwing
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loads. And so let's talk about that for a second.
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That was something. Again, as a female. Yeah, I'd be in
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heels because I didn't. You know, a lot of times, I would wear high heels
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to make sure I was at the same eye level as some man that
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I worked with. It was, like, a strategic thing. Like, those
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are things I think about. And so. But then you had
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to. But then I would never give an excuse, like, if I'm in heels or,
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like, someone say, like, can I help you? It's actually something that I deal
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with, like, where I don't like asking for help, because I never
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wanted to give anybody that reason to be able
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to say, like, oh, well, she this or you know, like,
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I just wanted to always be able to do it myself. Yeah. And show them
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that it could be done in three inch heels and with
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nails and. But, yeah, you were throwing cases.
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Cases. Actually, two things that I never liked.
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The hardest part of the business, carrying cases and dealing with
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people's credit. But, yeah, I mean, the cases, like, some of them are
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super heavy, depending on the glass. But you did it. You just did it. Because
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that's what they were having to. Do for the listeners. A case of wine, typical
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bottle of wine is 36 pounds, and if they decide to put it in heavy
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glass, they call it. It's around 50 pounds. So. And I remember
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carrying two cases at a time, my dad's store, but I was 16 and 18
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years old. But let's just focus really fast. Cause this is
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really interesting. But chain work, meaning
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Ralph's, whatever large, big box store there is,
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is more than just sort of handling the account and make sure the wine gets
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there, make sure the booze gets there. It's. You're sort of fighting for shelf space.
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The most famous, I think I mentioned earlier, is the Gallo brothers
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themselves would go into, like, thrifty, the
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pharmacy, and front their own stuff. Yes. And then, can
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I ask you, is that shelf space random? No,
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it's definitely not random. So we have
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surveys. They still go on today, but
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basically, the suppliers are working with Ralph's
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or whoever the chain is. The supplier being the person
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that brings the stuff to you as a distributor? Yes.
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And so that supplier is pretty much sponsoring or
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buying space on the end caps. So you have your aisles, and at
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the end, you'll have featured products. And that's all planned
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out throughout the calendar year for an x amount
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of dollars. So that's how those get
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actually placed in the grocery
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stores. So I did a show with Mike
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Houlihan and Bonnie, and they established the
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brand barefoot cellars. And they're the ones that told me the
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stories about running into Ernest Gallo, fronting merchandise, and they decided to
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copy him. But when he first came to me, and this is
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anecdotal, in 1989, he came to my office, and he
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says, we have a barefoot cellars wine. It's the
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chateau Lafitte feet of the California wine business.
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And the guy left, and I called my dad. I go, this is the dumbest
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thing I've ever heard in my life. I can't believe he's trying to do this,
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and he ends up being the biggest brand in America. So that's what I know.
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So you go through this chain part and are you dying to get out of
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it to do the next level? Yeah. I mean, it's tough because you have all
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those big wigs coming in and wanting to make sure that
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everything that they paid for is in its space,
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but that's, you know, how you grow brands. So then
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you had. I had to be in there for six months, and the
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first month I started, you know,
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applying for positions. You try to find an
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area, a territory, you know, where you're gonna have
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anywhere from 40 to, like, 120
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accounts. You usually want it to be somewhat in your
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backyard. So that took about a month, and one came
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up. And that's actually when I first met our good
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friend Melissa. Wow. Bo had a
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cherry, picked her right out of Buca de Beppo. And
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so I show up, and it's just. It's actually a funny thing
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because she wouldn't even look at me like she knew who I was. But again,
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I'm walking in like, hello, you know? That's funny.
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And so she got the job, and.
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But it was crazy. Again, another miracle,
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another position open the next month, and then Beau hired
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me that month. I didn't realize that Melissa has such
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pedigree working at Bucca de Beppo.
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Hey, she is literally, she's a hustler. She's the best
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in. She's the best in Cali, for sure.
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So Beau hires you. So you were. So
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when you came here, you were working for Beau, or you
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were. So basically, I started in the chains, and then I got
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hired on with Bo as a sales rep in the
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union for the on premise. So I had, like, burbank lunch
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restaurants where they pour stuff. Yeah. So
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it was a lot of fun because Pasadena at the time, like, it. It
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was a great time. Again, we were, Melissa and I were, like, in our twenties
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and twenties and thirties, and we just went out
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and goes back to relationships. We would
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go there, support our accounts, come through with
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whatever anybody needed the next week, and just grew the
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business. And that was a new learning curve for you. Yeah. And you're
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still, what, 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's
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crazy. You're starting early in the morning because you have to plan
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out your day. What does it need to sell? Your goals, all that kind of
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stuff. Quotas. And then you're taking care of any
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unfinished business, and you're just hitting the field and just seeing as
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many people as you can, you know, throughout the day. So let's
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delineate for the listeners that understand, you know, because I think
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by design. And really no reason for the consumer to understand that. But when you
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walk into a restaurant and you're handed that wine list, that's
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not by accident. And if you order vodka on the
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rocks, like you said earlier, or something that's coming from the well, which is the.
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What they call the main pour of that store.
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But if you call a drink, you ask for something
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in particular, like Belvedere or something, then that's a different level.
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Tito's. Tito's still pumping. Tito's.
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So for the listeners,
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all that is organized by people like
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you coming in. And saying, look, and our relationship.
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Yes. So just like if
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a consumer had a relationship with an owner and they like to drink something
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specific, the owner brings it in. Right? So
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for the sales person, it's the relationship. I
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mean, that's it. I mean, that's basically the
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recipe to anyone's success in this business. But how do you build that
361
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relationship? Is just. Is me showing up saying,
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Paul, you're way more versed in wine
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and spirits than I am at the time that I met you. And even
364
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still now, and just being honest
365
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about who you really are and what you're capable of doing. I know
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that I might not be able to talk about it, but if you tell me
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something specific, I'll go. I'll make sure it's the right thing. I'll
368
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research it so I can come back and talk about features and
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benefits and then get you the price point you need. And
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then that just builds trust, you know, showing up again and again.
371
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You don't have to be a genius in any field as long
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as you have the passion to want to go out and
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figure it out and win and be successful and do what you. Say you're gonna
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do. Exactly. I have to say, the 35 years I did this,
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the cycle of sales reps, all the various
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suppliers, let's just take the big guys.
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It ebbed and flows. There was one time where I was doing a lot of
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business with one of your competitors, and that gentleman moved on,
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and it plummeted. It literally plummeted from, like seven,
380
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$800,000 a year to like, nothing. And what's sad is,
381
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well, and it's sad that they had the opportunity.
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They never didn't have the opportunity. It's
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just taking advantage of it, seeing how far
384
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we can go with something. And when you build that trust,
385
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that's when it gets super fun in the business, because
386
00:23:40,844 --> 00:23:44,564
that's when both parties can be super
387
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creative and come up with all kinds of
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ways to innovate. And to change, like, okay, well, this isn't
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selling anymore. How can we make it work and then sell
390
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it? So I just. That's the best part about building the
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relationship for me, was just, like, being able
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to collaborate and just get super creative and make
393
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fun, because we all have to move boxes. No, you're right.
394
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We both have to move boxes. So if you can't move that box for that
395
00:24:13,602 --> 00:24:17,338
reason, we need to figure out why and fix it. There was
396
00:24:17,426 --> 00:24:21,002
the success that you had here, and I want to get into
397
00:24:21,138 --> 00:24:24,454
the gender specific problems that you encountered, but
398
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it always seemed to me, and I, of course, don't know the
399
00:24:28,866 --> 00:24:32,466
emaciations of corporate wine and
400
00:24:32,490 --> 00:24:36,298
distilled spirits, America, but it was always obvious,
401
00:24:36,386 --> 00:24:39,626
particularly with the volume that we were buying, which was quite a bit at our
402
00:24:39,650 --> 00:24:42,934
peak. I mean, we were buying 8700 cases of wine at a time
403
00:24:43,954 --> 00:24:47,362
that it was your fearlessness
404
00:24:47,498 --> 00:24:50,926
inside the company. Yes. Like, how much work you're going to put into doing this
405
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:54,694
for Paul and then trying to do it. And you were successful.
406
00:24:54,734 --> 00:24:58,046
I'd say 90% of the time, when I needed something from you, you'd pull it
407
00:24:58,070 --> 00:25:01,622
off. Yeah. And not knowing how high up the ranks you had to go to
408
00:25:01,638 --> 00:25:05,366
do that, it, um. That's one of the
409
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:08,982
crazy things that I think gets you towards the end is, like,
410
00:25:09,158 --> 00:25:12,954
you move mountains for people because you really care.
411
00:25:13,654 --> 00:25:17,502
And it just. I think that's what kind of, like, it gets to
412
00:25:17,518 --> 00:25:21,270
be a lot, but that's what you're doing. You're literally. You have to start
413
00:25:21,342 --> 00:25:25,006
selling to your own company. I got to sell to the credit department
414
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:28,630
that the order's going to release and he's going to cut a check. I have
415
00:25:28,662 --> 00:25:32,430
to tell the inventory person, yes. I have to line up
416
00:25:32,462 --> 00:25:35,822
everything, that here's a contract that he's going to take the 700
417
00:25:35,878 --> 00:25:39,550
cases I'm having to sell to everybody
418
00:25:39,702 --> 00:25:43,286
to get it done. And at the end of the day, it goes back to
419
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just being true to yourself and
420
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:50,638
just everyone just being like, you know, you're gonna need to
421
00:25:50,646 --> 00:25:54,422
sell it for that price point at some point. Like, do it now. I
422
00:25:54,438 --> 00:25:57,766
can't tell how many people, and they would. Wouldn't do it in previous
423
00:25:57,830 --> 00:26:01,662
deals, and then would come back a year later, nine months later, and
424
00:26:01,678 --> 00:26:04,702
say, we still have it then the wines, not the wine, wasn't any good at
425
00:26:04,718 --> 00:26:08,536
that point, and so they had their shot. So inside
426
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,272
selling corporate America, we've got hierarchies, we've got to go up the
427
00:26:12,288 --> 00:26:15,680
ladder, we have to go to the supplier sometimes, like, paul's going to buy this
428
00:26:15,712 --> 00:26:19,232
wine, like the hess. You remember the Hess shirt tail cabernet? I mean, that was
429
00:26:19,248 --> 00:26:22,444
like incredible price, right? Because
430
00:26:23,024 --> 00:26:26,776
I'll just tell the listeners that that deal came down to
431
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,688
such a substantial discount, but it was less money than the
432
00:26:30,736 --> 00:26:34,192
penalty imposed by the supplier or the winery or the group supplying the
433
00:26:34,208 --> 00:26:37,616
wine was going to fine at the end of the year because the inventory was
434
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,896
still here. So this is like stuff that people. Well, that's one where I had
435
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,184
to get creative. That's one where the creative side came out.
436
00:26:44,224 --> 00:26:47,768
Cause that's a well known brand, but the brand
437
00:26:47,856 --> 00:26:51,600
that you had access to, not everybody else
438
00:26:51,632 --> 00:26:55,216
had access to because, you know, it was a
439
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,744
restaurant, right? So true. That was a
440
00:26:58,784 --> 00:27:02,344
selling point for me to be able to go to them, to be like,
441
00:27:02,464 --> 00:27:05,874
how cool is this that we're gonna get this wine
442
00:27:05,954 --> 00:27:09,770
in, you know, 200 homes and they're gonna
443
00:27:09,802 --> 00:27:13,586
see the brand name and those impressions. And
444
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:15,054
so that's what I'm selling too.
445
00:27:18,234 --> 00:27:21,954
So this is not an easy task. I mean, for a male,
446
00:27:22,034 --> 00:27:25,730
not an easy task. Like I said, I worked at corporate America. I totally
447
00:27:25,762 --> 00:27:29,466
understand the hierarchies and the outlooks. The 30 day, 60 day, 90 day
448
00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:32,802
outlooks, the brand. What are you doing with this account? I know all those conversations.
449
00:27:32,938 --> 00:27:36,754
I know them well. But you're
450
00:27:36,874 --> 00:27:40,570
one of a few women that are in the street fighting
451
00:27:40,602 --> 00:27:44,026
for this position. And you talked about earlier how it was
452
00:27:44,170 --> 00:27:47,546
married to the job. I mean, that sounds like it
453
00:27:47,570 --> 00:27:50,934
anyway. But tell me about headwinds.
454
00:27:51,234 --> 00:27:53,614
Not to say disrespect, and I don't mean,
455
00:27:54,514 --> 00:27:57,694
but that extra effort it took because you're a woman.
456
00:27:58,734 --> 00:28:02,390
Um, I definitely, it
457
00:28:02,542 --> 00:28:05,354
first starts with appearance, so
458
00:28:06,174 --> 00:28:09,726
I can't tell you how many women. It's funny,
459
00:28:09,790 --> 00:28:13,354
I, I don't, I feel like, in a way,
460
00:28:14,614 --> 00:28:18,342
as much as I want to empower women
461
00:28:18,518 --> 00:28:22,126
at the same time, I'm like, but you gotta play the
462
00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:25,806
game, okay? And especially when you're in sales.
463
00:28:25,910 --> 00:28:29,694
So for sure, when you show up and it's four men, don't
464
00:28:29,774 --> 00:28:33,478
give them limp hand shake. Like, give them a hard
465
00:28:33,526 --> 00:28:36,686
handshake, look at them in the eye and let them know you're ready to rock
466
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:40,142
and roll. Like, that's against the grain. Do you
467
00:28:40,158 --> 00:28:43,734
think for most women, I. Don'T think
468
00:28:43,814 --> 00:28:47,558
that they think like that. Yeah. And you? I think
469
00:28:47,606 --> 00:28:50,594
it comes from being an athlete
470
00:28:51,674 --> 00:28:55,330
and being very competitive. I'm very competitive
471
00:28:55,402 --> 00:28:59,106
wanting to win, and you have to have that in
472
00:28:59,130 --> 00:29:02,378
you. No one can teach you to do that. I mean, at the end of
473
00:29:02,386 --> 00:29:05,962
the day, you're gonna either grab someone's hand and give them a
474
00:29:05,978 --> 00:29:09,754
firm handshake, or you're not males. I know men that don't do that.
475
00:29:09,834 --> 00:29:13,450
Yeah. And it's first impression for me. Side note, real
476
00:29:13,482 --> 00:29:17,106
fast, we're talking about acting. Yeah. And there's this one methodology
477
00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:20,438
called Chubbuck. And she. I've been reading her book, and it's
478
00:29:20,606 --> 00:29:24,262
exactly that. It's like you have to
479
00:29:24,318 --> 00:29:28,030
embrace that you want to win. Whatever, whatever role you're playing
480
00:29:28,142 --> 00:29:31,726
and whatever emotions you're pulling back or pulling from,
481
00:29:31,870 --> 00:29:35,678
it's basically about winning. Your objective as the actor,
482
00:29:35,726 --> 00:29:39,342
whatever your role is in this job and this overall thing, I thought when you
483
00:29:39,358 --> 00:29:42,382
said that, I go, wow, that's really what it is. It's like you. If you're
484
00:29:42,398 --> 00:29:46,050
not motivated to, it's not win. Like, you don't mean
485
00:29:46,082 --> 00:29:49,642
winning by cheating somebody else. You mean winning by
486
00:29:49,778 --> 00:29:53,434
accomplishing your goal. Well, you have to stay ahead. That's the other
487
00:29:53,474 --> 00:29:57,154
thing, too. So in a way, you have to win, especially
488
00:29:57,274 --> 00:30:01,034
if you're just getting started. You have to prove yourself, and you're going
489
00:30:01,034 --> 00:30:04,754
to have to prove yourself again and again. You're going to have to reinvent
490
00:30:04,834 --> 00:30:08,570
yourself by accepting change and growing with the
491
00:30:08,602 --> 00:30:12,270
changing times. I mean, when I first started, we were using those, like,
492
00:30:12,342 --> 00:30:16,126
brick tells on units where you, like, used the payphone that was
493
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:19,942
all sticky and the facts, like, you'd hold it up
494
00:30:19,958 --> 00:30:23,594
to the phone, to pagers and, you know what I mean?
495
00:30:24,094 --> 00:30:27,910
Now everyone's just got their head in the computer, not building
496
00:30:27,982 --> 00:30:31,794
that relationship with the customer. So
497
00:30:32,094 --> 00:30:35,694
it has to do with you just accepting change
498
00:30:35,774 --> 00:30:38,910
and rolling with it, because in this business, it
499
00:30:38,942 --> 00:30:42,680
continues to change. It also repeats
500
00:30:42,712 --> 00:30:46,136
the past, too, and just, you know,
501
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,776
reinvents the wheel. But anyways,
502
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,504
how long was it before. You felt like, or did you ever feel,
503
00:30:53,544 --> 00:30:57,152
like, absolutely accepted by the rank, rank and
504
00:30:57,168 --> 00:31:00,448
file and the management? So that
505
00:31:00,616 --> 00:31:04,280
goes back to what I first mentioned when we started. It goes in waves,
506
00:31:04,352 --> 00:31:08,044
because if you are working for a manager that doesn't
507
00:31:08,124 --> 00:31:11,628
accept the opinion of women or
508
00:31:11,716 --> 00:31:15,004
accept how a woman got something
509
00:31:15,124 --> 00:31:18,868
done, it's going to be a different
510
00:31:18,916 --> 00:31:22,764
experience versus a manager who
511
00:31:22,804 --> 00:31:26,596
takes a step back and says, go. Just
512
00:31:26,660 --> 00:31:30,380
go be you. Rock and roll. Let me know what you
513
00:31:30,412 --> 00:31:33,986
need, any support, anything like that. And then you got your supply
514
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:37,790
behind you, too. I mean, you can do anything.
515
00:31:37,862 --> 00:31:41,286
So, fortunately, the last couple
516
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:45,070
I had were like that, and it made
517
00:31:45,182 --> 00:31:48,194
it made it easier for me to retire because
518
00:31:49,414 --> 00:31:53,238
at that point, I felt like I had broken every glass ceiling I could
519
00:31:53,286 --> 00:31:56,914
break and done everything that I could do there.
520
00:31:57,254 --> 00:32:00,808
And my purpose and my time was. Was done, and it was.
521
00:32:00,936 --> 00:32:04,136
I needed to move on to taking care of the kids. I have to tell
522
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,728
you, Sandra and I talk about this. My wife and I talk about this all
523
00:32:07,736 --> 00:32:11,240
the time for the listeners that when we
524
00:32:11,272 --> 00:32:14,976
retired, was the same day you retired. Oh, yeah. March 31.
525
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,256
Wow. Oh, yeah. April. Mine was April 3, but yeah.
526
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,184
And I say, you know, without Julie's help
527
00:32:22,224 --> 00:32:25,964
all these years, and I want to make sure I helped her
528
00:32:26,284 --> 00:32:29,900
do the things that she needed to do. We retired at the right
529
00:32:29,932 --> 00:32:33,708
time on that relationship alone because I would have had to start all over
530
00:32:33,756 --> 00:32:37,540
again with a new rep who has different motivations,
531
00:32:37,612 --> 00:32:40,740
who doesn't. Whatever it is, our relationship
532
00:32:40,932 --> 00:32:44,424
synergized, and we got a lot done together. And
533
00:32:44,844 --> 00:32:47,396
that was kind of writing on the wall when you say things happen for a
534
00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:50,664
reason. That was an important relationship that I lost.
535
00:32:50,964 --> 00:32:54,092
That would have been hard to replace, would have made my job a lot harder.
536
00:32:54,188 --> 00:32:56,932
Yeah. I have to tell you an anecdotal story. In
537
00:32:56,948 --> 00:33:00,624
1982, when I was selling copiers to
538
00:33:01,204 --> 00:33:04,948
Vernon, 82, by the way, is. A very important
539
00:33:05,036 --> 00:33:08,644
year. Why? Oh, the year I was
540
00:33:08,684 --> 00:33:12,344
born, I was gonna say. And the year started his business.
541
00:33:12,804 --> 00:33:16,620
Really? When you were talking about Phelps earlier, that was one of the first places
542
00:33:16,692 --> 00:33:20,484
we went away with when we. Together with Joseph Phelps.
543
00:33:20,564 --> 00:33:24,266
Yep. And we drank 1982. Wow. Okay. So it's all right. This
544
00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:27,482
all comes for a circle. Full circle again. There was a guy named Bill. He
545
00:33:27,498 --> 00:33:30,454
was one of my great
546
00:33:31,394 --> 00:33:35,210
relationships in my career and a very interesting business because they made
547
00:33:35,242 --> 00:33:38,834
the machines that bottle or canned seven up in coke and stuff.
548
00:33:38,954 --> 00:33:42,778
So they're the colangelist can company. And so my knowledge of
549
00:33:42,826 --> 00:33:46,330
canning wine goes back to 1982 when I used to watch these
550
00:33:46,362 --> 00:33:50,042
machines. Anyway, it was clear he did not
551
00:33:50,218 --> 00:33:53,786
appreciate women in the workforce. Obvious. And I did.
552
00:33:53,850 --> 00:33:57,546
Never asked him. Never came across the
553
00:33:57,570 --> 00:34:01,410
conversation. We'd never discussed it. But he was
554
00:34:01,522 --> 00:34:05,226
a short sleeve, polyester white button down shirt guy. And you could
555
00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:08,770
just. I knew it. And I had to call my
556
00:34:08,802 --> 00:34:11,794
boss, who was a female at the time, great
557
00:34:11,834 --> 00:34:15,306
manager. She says, I want you to call his
558
00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:18,895
boss. And, you know, going over somebody's head is not a good
559
00:34:18,919 --> 00:34:22,615
idea generally. No. I go, look. She goes, I need this
560
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:26,135
sale. And it was a big sale. It was like a $200,000 copy. Okay.
561
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:28,763
$200,000 copy. Yeah. Okay. That's a lot.
562
00:34:29,223 --> 00:34:32,895
1982 also. Yeah. So I call the company, and I asked for the
563
00:34:32,919 --> 00:34:36,151
president. The answer she goes, hello? And I said, this Paul from
564
00:34:36,167 --> 00:34:39,959
Xerox, blah, blah. And he goes, we're gonna buy it. Thank
565
00:34:39,991 --> 00:34:43,812
you for calling. I got a phone call immediately after from Bill saying, what
566
00:34:43,828 --> 00:34:47,012
are you doing? How can you go over my head like this? You know, that's
567
00:34:47,028 --> 00:34:50,588
the kind of manager he was. I'm reflecting on the reason, because this probably
568
00:34:50,636 --> 00:34:54,396
exists in the wine and booze business. And I knew if
569
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:57,844
I was able to discreetly say that my
570
00:34:57,964 --> 00:35:01,732
woman manager asked me to call him, that I'd
571
00:35:01,748 --> 00:35:05,516
be off the hook. So I said, bill, I was
572
00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:09,232
talking to my manager, and she told me to call. That's all I said. And
573
00:35:09,248 --> 00:35:13,016
he goes, your boss is a woman? I go, yeah. He goes, you know,
574
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,760
they shouldn't be in the workforce. And I was totally off the hook because
575
00:35:16,792 --> 00:35:20,232
of his sexism. Totally off the hook. And I
576
00:35:20,248 --> 00:35:23,704
thought, wow. But you're talking about different part of America.
577
00:35:23,824 --> 00:35:27,504
But there still is a disparity in
578
00:35:27,544 --> 00:35:31,384
corporate America in executives, particularly in the wine and liquor industry
579
00:35:31,504 --> 00:35:35,292
of executive women. Did that change at all when you were going through this?
580
00:35:35,408 --> 00:35:38,836
Um, no, it doesn't. I. I mean, I can't tell you. I've been
581
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:42,500
in a lot of meetings where I've had men
582
00:35:42,532 --> 00:35:45,544
just not even look at me because
583
00:35:46,084 --> 00:35:49,628
they don't. Are they nuts? They don't know. Well, they just. They don't
584
00:35:49,676 --> 00:35:53,076
know. They think I'm just there, like, taking notes. Yeah.
585
00:35:53,180 --> 00:35:56,860
Um, I'd say for a lot of my meetings,
586
00:35:56,892 --> 00:35:59,820
if I am walking in with a male sales
587
00:35:59,892 --> 00:36:03,684
representative, I mean, I could be three levels higher.
588
00:36:04,024 --> 00:36:07,712
And they would assume the sales rep was the manager.
589
00:36:07,768 --> 00:36:11,216
Wow. And they would always have to correct the
590
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:14,456
buyer to say, actually, this is, you know, she's
591
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,936
director, she's a division manager. Whatever it was at the
592
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,624
time, that happened a lot. That's amazing.
593
00:36:21,664 --> 00:36:25,456
Really. Yeah. So. So let's say now
594
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,684
you've done this. You. You were very successful.
595
00:36:29,584 --> 00:36:32,604
You were put in charge of some rather important,
596
00:36:34,024 --> 00:36:37,864
what they call allocations for the listener. If there's only so much available
597
00:36:37,944 --> 00:36:40,644
to the whole country, then each market
598
00:36:41,384 --> 00:36:44,944
area gets so many bottles of whatever it is, whether it's bourbon
599
00:36:44,984 --> 00:36:48,736
or wine or whatever. And you became in
600
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,824
charge of some of this high level allocations?
601
00:36:51,944 --> 00:36:54,704
Yes. Was that a promotion at that point?
602
00:36:56,124 --> 00:36:59,356
Nobody else wanted to do it? Yeah, it's definitely a job
603
00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:02,940
everybody wants because, I mean, you have
604
00:37:03,012 --> 00:37:06,564
access to the best of the best, and they
605
00:37:06,604 --> 00:37:09,584
are extremely limited. And
606
00:37:10,404 --> 00:37:13,540
I think COVID changed a lot of it.
607
00:37:13,732 --> 00:37:16,940
But, yeah, there were bottles that
608
00:37:17,132 --> 00:37:20,724
sometimes I would get, like, three bottles for all of Southern
609
00:37:20,764 --> 00:37:23,384
California or my region,
610
00:37:24,404 --> 00:37:27,964
and I'd have to allocate them out to the right
611
00:37:28,084 --> 00:37:31,380
buyers. And it was tough. So tough. It's really tough.
612
00:37:31,532 --> 00:37:35,292
But was that a promotion inside the company or just added to your job?
613
00:37:35,428 --> 00:37:39,028
Okay, so I went from on premise sales
614
00:37:39,076 --> 00:37:42,876
representative. Then I became a key account manager, and then I became a
615
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:46,412
division manager, and then COVID hit,
616
00:37:46,508 --> 00:37:50,140
and I became a
617
00:37:50,172 --> 00:37:53,548
director of sales. That's where that job became.
618
00:37:53,636 --> 00:37:57,420
Yeah. So when did you say
619
00:37:57,452 --> 00:38:01,004
you had. How old are your kids now? Four years? They're seven. They're seven?
620
00:38:01,084 --> 00:38:04,916
Yeah. Wow. Triplets. So when did
621
00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:08,504
it hit you that, wait a minute,
622
00:38:09,524 --> 00:38:13,276
I can't do it all having. Well, the triplets, which is, you know,
623
00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:16,884
not easy for anybody, let alone a full time mom. But you weren't a full
624
00:38:16,924 --> 00:38:20,624
time mom. You were working in the streets. This is a very demanding job. Still
625
00:38:21,364 --> 00:38:24,860
district manager. When did you start thinking, well,
626
00:38:24,892 --> 00:38:28,492
it's in that business. You're out late
627
00:38:28,628 --> 00:38:31,984
all the time. You're doing several dinners a week.
628
00:38:33,284 --> 00:38:36,884
You're playing golf a lot, which is awesome.
629
00:38:36,964 --> 00:38:40,812
It's fun. But when you're out, everyone
630
00:38:40,868 --> 00:38:44,532
knows it slows you down. You can't do what you could do if you were
631
00:38:44,548 --> 00:38:48,172
in the office or out in the field. So there's a lot of
632
00:38:48,188 --> 00:38:51,644
trips away, a lot of nights staying in other
633
00:38:51,684 --> 00:38:55,132
counties, for example, lots of
634
00:38:55,228 --> 00:38:58,304
alcohol, amazing food.
635
00:38:59,524 --> 00:39:03,356
There's a lot of perks and stuff. But you're away, and you're not
636
00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:07,138
present with your family or with what
637
00:39:07,186 --> 00:39:10,746
maybe yourself, you know, and taking care of yourself.
638
00:39:10,930 --> 00:39:14,574
And I think what happened was
639
00:39:15,074 --> 00:39:17,774
I got into that director position,
640
00:39:18,274 --> 00:39:21,946
and I saw that there was nowhere else to
641
00:39:21,970 --> 00:39:25,722
go. And it's funny, like, when you want
642
00:39:25,738 --> 00:39:29,362
to work on your career and you want to continue growing and making more money
643
00:39:29,418 --> 00:39:33,060
and climbing that ladder, it really is like a
644
00:39:33,092 --> 00:39:36,812
chess game. You have to think a couple steps
645
00:39:36,908 --> 00:39:40,364
ahead. And what happens if this person goes here
646
00:39:40,444 --> 00:39:44,140
or this happens or they realign this division
647
00:39:44,252 --> 00:39:48,036
or take away these positions? So
648
00:39:48,060 --> 00:39:51,732
it's just a lot of thinking ahead and planning, but
649
00:39:51,868 --> 00:39:54,464
I feel like every move I made
650
00:39:55,164 --> 00:39:58,484
was done for a certain reason at the right
651
00:39:58,524 --> 00:40:01,584
time. And when COVID hit, they furloughed
652
00:40:01,624 --> 00:40:05,080
everybody, so there was just a few of us left.
653
00:40:05,192 --> 00:40:09,024
And I never worked so hard in my life when I thought I had
654
00:40:09,064 --> 00:40:12,560
already worked so hard. Like, I feel like I'd already,
655
00:40:12,712 --> 00:40:16,096
you know, even when I was pregnant with the triplets, like, I won
656
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:19,124
manager of the year that year, and,
657
00:40:19,744 --> 00:40:23,560
like, so I felt like I just done everything I
658
00:40:23,592 --> 00:40:27,292
could, and that business everything shut down.
659
00:40:27,348 --> 00:40:31,140
Like, LA is still recovering from it. If you drive down there, they're
660
00:40:31,172 --> 00:40:33,584
still boarded off. And
661
00:40:34,404 --> 00:40:37,964
so going through that was hard because it
662
00:40:38,004 --> 00:40:41,580
was from basically 06:00 a.m. To about 02:00 a.m. No
663
00:40:41,612 --> 00:40:45,436
joke. Because it was dealing with people's credit and trying to get
664
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:49,236
them up and running again because they had been closed, they hadn't had
665
00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:53,024
a liquor order since St. Patrick's Day.
666
00:40:53,644 --> 00:40:57,412
So it was just a crazy time. And then I
667
00:40:57,428 --> 00:41:01,004
had a dinner one night with a female executive,
668
00:41:01,124 --> 00:41:04,508
very few, but this one runs quite a few
669
00:41:04,556 --> 00:41:07,932
states. And I just, I was
670
00:41:07,988 --> 00:41:11,764
overhearing her talk about her kids, and I said, oh, you have two kids? Yes.
671
00:41:11,884 --> 00:41:15,612
Oh, who's taking care of the kids? Oh, my husband. Oh,
672
00:41:15,668 --> 00:41:19,458
okay. Does he stay at home? Yeah, he stays at home. So I'm just like,
673
00:41:19,506 --> 00:41:23,294
putting this all together and, you know, they say, like,
674
00:41:24,314 --> 00:41:27,134
I don't think you can have it all
675
00:41:28,154 --> 00:41:31,970
because you can't give everything
676
00:41:32,082 --> 00:41:35,666
100% of yourself. Like, you can't be present for
677
00:41:35,730 --> 00:41:38,978
everything. It's like the same as they say. Multitasking really isn't, like,
678
00:41:39,106 --> 00:41:42,866
efficient. I'm a multitasker. But they
679
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:46,272
say it's really not efficient because you're not giving that one thing
680
00:41:46,458 --> 00:41:49,304
everything and you're not just finishing it. So
681
00:41:50,444 --> 00:41:54,036
I wanted to be more present
682
00:41:54,220 --> 00:41:57,612
because if it's not your significant
683
00:41:57,748 --> 00:42:01,388
other doing it for you at home, it's
684
00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:05,036
somebody else and it's not you. Your husband
685
00:42:05,060 --> 00:42:08,756
is a thriving electrical business. He's not
686
00:42:08,780 --> 00:42:12,476
home. Very successful business. He's hardest worker
687
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:16,340
I know. He's out of the house by 415 to meet a load,
688
00:42:16,412 --> 00:42:19,740
and he comes home at 630 for dinner. And it's
689
00:42:19,772 --> 00:42:23,492
just, that's how we, we were. We're just like, so
690
00:42:23,508 --> 00:42:27,212
you're both doing this crazy machine where I have a
691
00:42:27,228 --> 00:42:30,024
nanny, and then it's like I have to hire someone to
692
00:42:30,444 --> 00:42:33,980
overlay, like, because I can't fit 8 hours
693
00:42:34,052 --> 00:42:37,900
in that business and do an eight hour work day. Was that gnawing
694
00:42:37,932 --> 00:42:41,388
on you for a while until you had this conversation or you just kind of
695
00:42:41,436 --> 00:42:44,900
woke up to it? No, this is something I had actually been
696
00:42:44,932 --> 00:42:48,762
asking, you know, for years. And you kind of. You have to wait for
697
00:42:48,778 --> 00:42:52,574
the right moment for your family too, you know, for it to make sense
698
00:42:53,114 --> 00:42:56,866
for the family to do that, to
699
00:42:57,050 --> 00:43:00,014
step away from a very
700
00:43:01,114 --> 00:43:04,426
great position. Well, there's obviously
701
00:43:04,450 --> 00:43:08,066
the salary and the work that's obviously
702
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:11,850
counts. You're eating at the best places, you're drinking the
703
00:43:11,882 --> 00:43:15,470
best stuff, you know, private
704
00:43:15,542 --> 00:43:19,190
dinners all the time, golfing of the best courses. I mean,
705
00:43:19,222 --> 00:43:22,354
it's. It's. It's amazing, but it just.
706
00:43:22,894 --> 00:43:26,742
It became where I just wasn't present, and that's what I wanted to
707
00:43:26,758 --> 00:43:30,566
do. And I wonder, and I also felt that I had another purpose like
708
00:43:30,590 --> 00:43:34,114
this. I had done everything I could. Yeah,
709
00:43:34,454 --> 00:43:38,206
that's a pretty serious revelation. Mm hmm. To
710
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:41,700
try reflect on that. And, you know, we only have one pass through here,
711
00:43:41,732 --> 00:43:45,388
so you want to maximize that value. And I was thinking that
712
00:43:45,556 --> 00:43:48,068
I had a winemaker. Tell me once, man, I eat the best food, I go
713
00:43:48,076 --> 00:43:51,812
to the best places, I drink the best wines, I meet
714
00:43:51,828 --> 00:43:55,284
the most amazing people. But his comment was, I don't make a lot of money
715
00:43:55,324 --> 00:43:58,980
doing this. And, you know, even me having done
716
00:43:59,012 --> 00:44:02,076
all this, and now we're starting to travel and get around and try to use
717
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:05,708
some of the relationships, I still feel like I want
718
00:44:05,716 --> 00:44:09,442
to be home sometimes. Like. Like I want to
719
00:44:09,458 --> 00:44:11,978
lever. We're going to Bordeaux, and I'm going to see all these great people that
720
00:44:11,986 --> 00:44:14,322
I've interviewed on the show, and we're going to have so much fun together. But
721
00:44:14,338 --> 00:44:17,938
I'm also sort of thinking, I can't wait to get home when that's done. And
722
00:44:17,946 --> 00:44:21,658
I'm wondering if even a single person, even if you weren't married,
723
00:44:21,706 --> 00:44:24,802
even I wasn't married and we were doing that, we'd probably still burn out a
724
00:44:24,818 --> 00:44:28,154
little bit. Yeah. I mean, think about this. How often do you go
725
00:44:28,194 --> 00:44:31,874
and do you really just, like, stop for a second and go
726
00:44:31,914 --> 00:44:35,626
walk in the vineyard by yourself? No, like, when's the last time you've done
727
00:44:35,650 --> 00:44:39,322
that? Yeah. Right. And if you think about it, every time you go visit
728
00:44:39,378 --> 00:44:42,938
one of those awesome wineries and you're hearing about the history
729
00:44:43,026 --> 00:44:46,202
and the views, like, I can see napa in my head right now is what
730
00:44:46,218 --> 00:44:50,010
I can see. I see a liquor store.
731
00:44:50,122 --> 00:44:53,610
Yeah, but you should be doing that. You know what I mean? It's like stopping
732
00:44:53,642 --> 00:44:57,466
and smelling the roses. Like, it just has become too
733
00:44:57,530 --> 00:45:01,342
fast paced. Like, a text isn't a text. An
734
00:45:01,358 --> 00:45:04,286
email is not an email. It's like, you better be looking at all of it.
735
00:45:04,430 --> 00:45:07,750
Twenty four seven. And, you know, especially in that business, there's no
736
00:45:07,782 --> 00:45:11,278
boundaries. No, because some places. No time
737
00:45:11,326 --> 00:45:14,926
borders. No. Some close at 02:00 a.m., hey, there's some out there that close at
738
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:18,646
04:00 a.m. And then guess what? They open at 06:00 a.m. So restaurant
739
00:45:18,670 --> 00:45:22,326
tours aren't exactly the nicest people when it comes to respect of your
740
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:26,126
time and your family. If, you know, for the listeners. I wanted to just touch
741
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:29,806
on the COVID side. What happened in the La market all over the country
742
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:33,598
is that most businesses, if you and I were going to start a
743
00:45:33,606 --> 00:45:37,046
winery, we would want to be in a restaurant because it's a house pour or
744
00:45:37,070 --> 00:45:40,566
it's on a list. It's like an annuity. People buy the glass
745
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:44,430
volume. Yeah, it's volume. Right. And when the COVID shut
746
00:45:44,462 --> 00:45:47,354
down all the restaurants, then 80% of the businesses,
747
00:45:48,094 --> 00:45:51,894
suppliers, I mean, I think your competitor put like 200
748
00:45:51,934 --> 00:45:55,782
people on the street or something. Ridiculous. Yeah. So. But
749
00:45:55,798 --> 00:45:59,512
it didn't matter because there was nothing we could do. And
750
00:45:59,528 --> 00:46:02,324
then it turned into to go business and
751
00:46:03,544 --> 00:46:07,352
packaging, you know, wine and spirits coming out and in different
752
00:46:07,408 --> 00:46:11,088
packaging. And now look at the. Look at the shelves in the grocery store now.
753
00:46:11,136 --> 00:46:14,200
I know. And they always say the on premise builds
754
00:46:14,232 --> 00:46:17,672
brands. You know, we talked about that a lot. Like in this business
755
00:46:17,728 --> 00:46:21,552
and it's true. There's an entire aisle now of
756
00:46:21,608 --> 00:46:25,054
canned wines, spirits, pouches,
757
00:46:25,474 --> 00:46:28,842
all kinds of things like that. You know, you were very funny during this process
758
00:46:28,978 --> 00:46:32,802
and you were self admittedly, and you probably would do it today,
759
00:46:32,858 --> 00:46:36,650
but I would try to teach you something about
760
00:46:36,682 --> 00:46:39,494
wine and you'd go one. Ear, not the other.
761
00:46:41,074 --> 00:46:43,574
Except for when you talked about like your family
762
00:46:44,394 --> 00:46:47,854
and I love those stories. You would go,
763
00:46:48,154 --> 00:46:51,666
okay, so how can I make this deal happen? Yeah, can we just get to
764
00:46:51,770 --> 00:46:55,616
how many cases and what's the bottle cost? I need to get to. And
765
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,360
does it have to be Stelvin or quark? All the rest of the stuff is
766
00:46:59,392 --> 00:47:03,016
going on. So are you happy that you did this? Yeah, I'm
767
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,888
very happy. It's taken a few
768
00:47:06,976 --> 00:47:10,824
months to kind of find myself and get back to
769
00:47:10,864 --> 00:47:13,324
just like breathing again.
770
00:47:14,424 --> 00:47:18,200
You mentioned that your kids. And I'm with you on that.
771
00:47:18,232 --> 00:47:21,860
I'm still struggling. I still can't like shut down. I still
772
00:47:21,892 --> 00:47:25,612
can't believe I don't have to be somewhere for something. Yes, a
773
00:47:25,628 --> 00:47:29,444
lot of that. But you said your kids didn't trust you when you got home.
774
00:47:29,564 --> 00:47:33,284
Oh, wow. You remembered that? Yeah, I'm actually still
775
00:47:33,324 --> 00:47:36,988
dealing with that. Really? And I think it has to do with just again,
776
00:47:37,076 --> 00:47:40,484
you're not fully there, you're not present. You have
777
00:47:40,644 --> 00:47:44,180
a team of people that you trust and that you've
778
00:47:44,372 --> 00:47:48,100
overly communicated as much as you can and shown them as
779
00:47:48,132 --> 00:47:51,272
much as you can. But at the end of the day, it's not you. And,
780
00:47:51,328 --> 00:47:54,168
you know, there's a lot of times where it's like, oh yeah, I'll try to
781
00:47:54,176 --> 00:47:57,472
be home at your 830. Like I want to rush it. And I'm sitting there
782
00:47:57,648 --> 00:48:01,120
with owners of brands that have just flown in
783
00:48:01,312 --> 00:48:05,048
and now they're, you know, their head of PR from New York is here
784
00:48:05,096 --> 00:48:08,768
and I'm sitting right next to them and it's now going to be midnight. How
785
00:48:08,816 --> 00:48:12,176
you did that? How did you justify, like, you're sitting with this guy and I
786
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,000
know exactly what you're talking about and you're
787
00:48:16,112 --> 00:48:19,096
chomping at the big cause, you know, that the kids are doing whatever Frank's doing,
788
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,282
whatever. How did you justify at that moment? Did you just go, I just gotta
789
00:48:22,298 --> 00:48:25,778
get through this? Well, that's where the trust is
790
00:48:25,866 --> 00:48:29,458
lost because I know that I have a support
791
00:48:29,546 --> 00:48:33,362
team that's gonna, you know, get him into bed and read him
792
00:48:33,378 --> 00:48:37,174
a book and do all the things that I wanted to do.
793
00:48:37,474 --> 00:48:41,094
So I was able, you know, to do that. Frank
794
00:48:42,394 --> 00:48:46,014
always supported me that way to make sure that I could keep working
795
00:48:46,524 --> 00:48:50,220
and stay focused. But I was thinking about it the whole time because,
796
00:48:50,412 --> 00:48:53,436
you know, I probably did say I was going to be home at nine and
797
00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:56,796
next thing you know, he's asleep and I'm walking in. 1130.
798
00:48:56,860 --> 00:49:00,580
Yeah. That cause friction? Oh, yeah. I think
799
00:49:00,612 --> 00:49:04,084
it causes, I mean, it. Would in any marriage. I'm just
800
00:49:04,124 --> 00:49:07,860
wondering. Oh yeah. I mean, think about it. I'm sure the
801
00:49:07,892 --> 00:49:11,108
women are always thinking like, what is my husband going out to do right now?
802
00:49:11,116 --> 00:49:14,908
He's at another bar, he's drinking. Oh, great. At St. Patrick's Day or
803
00:49:14,916 --> 00:49:18,692
it's Cinco de Mayo or whatever it is. And next thing you know,
804
00:49:18,708 --> 00:49:22,100
he has to stay at a hotel. What is he really doing? I mean, you
805
00:49:22,132 --> 00:49:25,784
have to have a solid foundation and,
806
00:49:27,244 --> 00:49:30,344
you know, and just trust your partner.
807
00:49:31,364 --> 00:49:34,916
But it is crazy because, I mean, let's be real. You're in
808
00:49:34,940 --> 00:49:38,740
bars, you're on alcohol. It's, the temptations
809
00:49:38,812 --> 00:49:42,040
are huge. In the eighties, in corporate America was
810
00:49:42,072 --> 00:49:45,560
drugs. I mean, in the halls of the greatest
811
00:49:45,592 --> 00:49:49,136
corporations, drugs. And there was so much infidelity and
812
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,016
alcoholism at that time, which probably isn't all that different now. It's just more
813
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,872
discreet. But I can't imagine when you add to
814
00:49:56,888 --> 00:50:00,704
it that the product being sold is, you know,
815
00:50:00,744 --> 00:50:03,804
dependent, mind altering. Yeah. Depends on this, right?
816
00:50:05,104 --> 00:50:08,468
Yes. In order for it to be successful. Yep.
817
00:50:08,636 --> 00:50:12,436
Well, okay. So I will say, though, what I
818
00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:16,224
loved about being a woman in this industry
819
00:50:16,844 --> 00:50:20,284
is once you do prove yourself right, that you can
820
00:50:20,324 --> 00:50:24,044
play with them, that anything they do, you can do better.
821
00:50:24,084 --> 00:50:27,052
I used to say that all the time. Like, anything they do, I can do
822
00:50:27,068 --> 00:50:30,404
better. I can be cliched, but we're gonna do that. But
823
00:50:30,444 --> 00:50:33,244
basically, like, it got to a point where,
824
00:50:34,104 --> 00:50:37,284
respectfully, like, they became brothers.
825
00:50:37,784 --> 00:50:41,616
So I also think that's part of how I was able to
826
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,272
do it for so long, you know, married with. With
827
00:50:45,328 --> 00:50:48,800
little ones, is that I was on a team.
828
00:50:48,992 --> 00:50:52,456
You know, it was like being on a baseball team. Like, those were my
829
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,364
teammates, and they protected me, and
830
00:50:56,304 --> 00:51:00,044
I always felt, you know, safe. So,
831
00:51:00,344 --> 00:51:03,640
you know, there's a double edged sword to this, a little bit. Looking at this
832
00:51:03,672 --> 00:51:07,112
picture over your shoulder of my dad. Oh, yeah, I love that. And I remember
833
00:51:07,168 --> 00:51:10,512
this well. I remember the day he took the picture. I'm like, what are you
834
00:51:10,528 --> 00:51:14,084
doing? Why are you doing this? And thank God he did. But
835
00:51:14,864 --> 00:51:18,672
I was about to do a monologue to test my acting skills, just so you
836
00:51:18,688 --> 00:51:22,524
know. Yeah. And the stories are going to be just snippet stories of my father,
837
00:51:23,694 --> 00:51:26,714
because I think what you taught your children,
838
00:51:27,254 --> 00:51:30,974
even though you're at a crossroads now and you're back
839
00:51:31,014 --> 00:51:34,554
home and the kids are learning that I have a mother here all the time,
840
00:51:35,694 --> 00:51:39,278
they also saw an amazing work ethic. Yes.
841
00:51:39,406 --> 00:51:42,914
And I think there's value to that, even though you can't tell today.
842
00:51:43,574 --> 00:51:46,774
I see it actually already. You do? I do. My
843
00:51:46,854 --> 00:51:50,234
son Vincent, he's very much like Frank
844
00:51:50,974 --> 00:51:54,750
out with. He's helping him every Saturday. He gets in his
845
00:51:54,782 --> 00:51:58,558
precision electric uniform, and so does Frankie now, too.
846
00:51:58,606 --> 00:52:02,406
And Frankie's been working, just modeling, and we're
847
00:52:02,430 --> 00:52:05,958
going to get into acting, hopefully. And he knows
848
00:52:06,006 --> 00:52:08,702
that if I do this job, I'm going to make money, and it can go
849
00:52:08,718 --> 00:52:12,518
into my savings account and I'm going to buy a car later, that's
850
00:52:12,646 --> 00:52:16,314
how he's talking about it. That's great lessons. And Francesca, she's
851
00:52:16,694 --> 00:52:20,390
so brave and strong, and I see her
852
00:52:20,422 --> 00:52:24,086
with her brothers, and, like, I. I see myself in it now. I just gotta
853
00:52:24,110 --> 00:52:27,470
be, like, not so quick to
854
00:52:27,502 --> 00:52:31,118
get angry or snappy, because I see you're getting a little bossy, like
855
00:52:31,166 --> 00:52:33,874
me, but that takes years of, like,
856
00:52:34,254 --> 00:52:38,030
learning, you know, how to finesse that and make
857
00:52:38,062 --> 00:52:41,614
it work to your advantage. But they see two parents that are working hard,
858
00:52:41,654 --> 00:52:45,324
and I don't think there's any greater lesson than that for
859
00:52:45,404 --> 00:52:49,148
particularly in today's generations that are growing up digitally
860
00:52:49,196 --> 00:52:53,036
with information at their fingertips and services at
861
00:52:53,060 --> 00:52:56,064
their fingertips that we never had, you know, and
862
00:52:56,844 --> 00:53:00,308
for them to have a work ethic, because that's what's gonna
863
00:53:00,436 --> 00:53:04,244
prevail when it's all said and done. Like, my kids are very
864
00:53:04,284 --> 00:53:07,796
hard working. They're millennials. They act like it. They're pain in the
865
00:53:07,820 --> 00:53:11,602
ass. But it's from you, and it's from your parents. Right.
866
00:53:11,738 --> 00:53:15,378
And Sandra and her parents, just like it is my
867
00:53:15,426 --> 00:53:19,242
parents and my grandparents who are still alive. My grandma's 89 and my
868
00:53:19,258 --> 00:53:22,834
grandfather's 90. And I
869
00:53:22,954 --> 00:53:26,770
saw how hard they work, and I saw how hard my parents worked
870
00:53:26,882 --> 00:53:30,586
and struggled at times in the beginning. And I
871
00:53:30,610 --> 00:53:34,274
learned at a very young age that if you wanted something, you had to work
872
00:53:34,314 --> 00:53:38,106
for it. And so with the kids now, it's hard because they are
873
00:53:38,130 --> 00:53:41,770
so. They're privileged. I mean, they have everything at their
874
00:53:41,802 --> 00:53:45,410
fingertips, and it's. I'm working on right now,
875
00:53:45,442 --> 00:53:49,050
just teaching them that, you know, it's not so
876
00:53:49,082 --> 00:53:52,698
easy for everybody. No. And you have to work hard and.
877
00:53:52,826 --> 00:53:56,254
And respect the things that you have and be grateful
878
00:53:56,594 --> 00:54:00,282
for everything that you have, you know, gratitude. Even
879
00:54:00,338 --> 00:54:03,410
better lesson. Yeah. And so
880
00:54:03,602 --> 00:54:05,614
triplets. Yes. I mean.
881
00:54:08,354 --> 00:54:10,094
That'S a whole nother story.
882
00:54:12,314 --> 00:54:15,946
That's. Yeah. It's really, really
883
00:54:16,050 --> 00:54:19,586
exciting to watch. I've been very honored to be part
884
00:54:19,610 --> 00:54:23,362
of your career. Oh, thank you. And watch. And you
885
00:54:23,378 --> 00:54:25,854
always had ideas. We're almost on an hour already.
886
00:54:26,914 --> 00:54:30,570
But you always came up with new ideas. You're the person you gotta
887
00:54:30,602 --> 00:54:34,304
call this. Person to take care of. I'm like, Julie, I got, you know. No,
888
00:54:34,424 --> 00:54:37,968
but you gotta call her. She's. Any think tanks out there,
889
00:54:38,056 --> 00:54:41,864
give me a call. I will solve that problem for
890
00:54:41,904 --> 00:54:45,672
you. There is a wine think tank called Adoni Global. It's out of
891
00:54:45,688 --> 00:54:49,168
France, in London, and they think
892
00:54:49,216 --> 00:54:52,696
tank through the industry of fine wine, wines
893
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,584
of caliber, that, you know, the history. Not the history,
894
00:54:56,624 --> 00:54:59,944
but the future of it, because consumerism has changed so
895
00:54:59,984 --> 00:55:03,682
much. And you got out at the right time. Yeah, you
896
00:55:03,698 --> 00:55:06,762
really did. And I feel. I feel extraordinarily
897
00:55:06,818 --> 00:55:10,546
fortunate to have gotten out with a deal like this.
898
00:55:10,570 --> 00:55:14,186
So. Yeah, no, it's very exciting. I'm happy for you. And,
899
00:55:14,290 --> 00:55:17,014
yeah, you're lucky that after. What was it,
900
00:55:17,794 --> 00:55:21,506
day after Christmas? The Stanley cup. Did you see all the, like, feed where
901
00:55:21,530 --> 00:55:25,314
the kids were getting Stanley cups for Christmas? It
902
00:55:25,314 --> 00:55:29,052
was like the hot gift. I would
903
00:55:29,068 --> 00:55:32,676
have been in here that Monday going, all right, we're going to put together a
904
00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:34,784
pouch that fits in the Stanley cup.
905
00:55:38,004 --> 00:55:41,580
So thank goodness, thank goodness, thank goodness.
906
00:55:41,692 --> 00:55:45,100
It's really, really great to see you. It's really great to hear the stories. And
907
00:55:45,172 --> 00:55:48,924
I think we have more to talk about. Maybe in the future as
908
00:55:49,084 --> 00:55:52,636
things settle. Down home and we have dinner together coming up
909
00:55:52,660 --> 00:55:56,396
sometime. Who knows when that is? Yes, we need to do that. And
910
00:55:56,420 --> 00:55:59,900
just thanks for coming in. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Cheers.
911
00:56:00,012 --> 00:56:00,744
Cheers.
912
00:56:09,564 --> 00:56:12,900
Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum, Cary. And don't forget to
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subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way.
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Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.