She Walked Into My Office And Made A Difference. Meet Julie Hernandez.

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Carson Leno

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Fallon. Now it's

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wine talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to wine talks with Paul K. And we are in the studio today

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about to have a conversation with Julie. And I always say.

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Delaquila. That too. If you say it in italian

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with the italian accent, it's different introductions.

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Hernandez. Hernandez. That's right. Oh, that would've been easier.

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Hey, listen. Have a listen to

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Chris Phelps. I just re released his episode. I completely

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forgotten about this winemaker in Napa Valley. If you're going

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up the highway 29, you make a hard left right inside

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St. Helena. Make a hard right after that, and you end up in this very

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understated tasting room where Chris Phelps and his son Josh

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make wines. And he had worked in the greatest

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places in the world to make wine and now makes wine in Napa. It's called

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ad Vivim. Incredible conversation and very philosophical

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about winemaking. Also in the studio last week was Matthew

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Borde from Chateau Lagrange Saint

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Julien, a classified growth Bordeaux. And here

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how he works in what is a very exclusive

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industry in Bordeaux, France, but for corporate

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Japan, actually for Suntory corporation. So you'll hear something very

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interesting from Matthew, but not why we're here. We're here to catch up with an

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old friend, an old, you know, I think almost

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a mentor to me. Right. Really? And,

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yes, and because of you, and I tell this story

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all the time. It's what business is

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about. And you've always said, this is

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like, I'm going to help you, and you

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never asked for help back, but we

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always wanted to help each other. We always wanted to grow each other. And I

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have to tell you, when you first came in here about 20 years ago.

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Sorry, I'm turning it off. 20. Was it 20

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years ago that you walked into actually, almost exactly where you're sitting right now?

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Yeah, probably like about maybe like 17 years ago, because

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I started in the chains and stuff like that. But, yeah, it's.

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It's been a long time. You realize, literally the studio where

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you're sitting is steps away from the day you walked in here

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with Bo and he introduced you. Yeah. You know what my

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thought was? What? You don't know? My thought was what?

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Oh, yeah. I tell you this already. I kind of heard it. But you, I

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think you were just like, oh, my gosh, who would

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emotion in here?

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I'm like, seriously? You know, wine warehouse.

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When they first came out to see me, a young girl came

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and I called the manager and said, look, you know, please don't send me somebody

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who's never done this before because I've been doing it too long, and I need,

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like, I don't want to educate anybody. That's not what I thought about

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you. But Beau had done a really good job before you

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came in, and so I was a little nervous. And what does that mean, a

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good job? You supported us. Well, it

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goes back to this. Business is all about relationships. You

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can't do anything without starting with a

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relationship. And then as you grow

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you, and, like, in that situation and

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you're bringing in somebody, you have to have that foundation and that

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platform where you've built that trust to where he could have

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brought me in through your relationship to be like, hey,

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give her a chance. Let her just come in and bring some

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wines. And. And I think our

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relationship has just been that. Like, I'm sure

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that was the impression of me, but I think

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probably our first meeting, I brought in wines, and I was just like, okay, what

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do you need? What price? Like, how many cases? Like,

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I just was straight with you, too, that I didn't know anything.

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Like, I was new and I'm just learning and, you know, so you

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teach me. Just tell me, like, what you're looking for. The price, the

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profile, all those things that as a

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salesperson, you can narrow down, you know, your

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suggestions and make it work. Not everybody's like that. I mean,

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sales is about matching what you have in your

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quiver to the customer's needs and, or creating the need in

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the customer's mind that what you have is important. So that's not

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natural for one. Salespeople have to learn that took me

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40 years to figure it out. And you were in a very,

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very large organization. And for the listeners, the

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wine and liquor business is rather

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strict or rather rigid in its format. There's not

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a lot of flexibility to run with. And then you add the layers of bureaucracy

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in corporate America, and it's even less flexible.

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And so when did you get. I don't remember having

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this conversation with you. But when did you get into working

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in this industry? Was it always corporate America? No. So

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this, like, whole industry fell out of the sky. It was.

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So what happened was, I'm in college. I actually wanted

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to act and model and do that. I went to Cal State

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Northridge. While I was there, I worked for, you know,

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quest diagnostics, the laboratory. I worked in the managed

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care department with all women, by the way. And then I also

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worked at a tanning salon. And at night I would go and I would do

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promo modeling, because at the time, you could put that on your resume that you

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were doing promo modeling. So, anyways,

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this managed care department, this department of women would literally

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just be like, hey, you go do what you need to do. Check in and

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out. So that's how I was able to get through school and get

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everything accomplished. But I knew that I needed to work my

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butt off to get whatever it was that I needed to get or

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to get where I was going. So, anyways, I would do these jobs

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at night, and this woman walks in, and she's wearing a

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black suit, and I'm probably wearing, like, my little black

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skirt, my little, like, black, you know, tequila t shirt,

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whatever brand it was, and high heels and walking

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around socializing with people, and she walks in a suit. You

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socializing with people? Shocking. So she walks

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in and she starts telling me what to do, and I'm like, so confused.

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Cause I'm like, oh, I don't know. My agency sent me here, and she's like,

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no, I'm the sales representative at this bar

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restaurant, and I booked the promotion so that you could

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help sell the brand. And I'm like, okay. I mean, it's just

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crazy how I had no idea. And, like, going

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through this business talking to people, they have no idea either, like,

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how anything gets behind the bar or why it's listed

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by the glass or by the bottle or what they're pouring you in their. Well,

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if you say, I want, like, a vodka soda, like, you don't know

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how that got there. So you were

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representing the tequila brand. That's why you're wearing the t shirt, and

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you showed up to do this bit. I'm working for the marketing company

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that the supplier. You just walk in the door like, okay, I'm here.

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So what happens is I'm like, I have this light bulb

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moment in my life. It's very clear where I'm like, why is she wearing

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that suit? And I'm wearing this outfit? It was all about the suit, really,

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that just empowered me to be like, okay, I need to go to the

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next level. So that weekend, I

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had a trade show, and I went past a

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gentleman that had, like, four six foot tables, and just, like,

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brand after brand lined up, and I went up to him, like,

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do you represent all these brands? Like, again, I have no clue. I

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have no clue just how anything is

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placed at this point. So he says yes. So I

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take down his info. Turns out it's one of the biggest distributors

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in California. And while looking

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at it, I find the other bigger competitor,

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and turns out I have an interview with both of them on

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the same day. Because you walked in and went to the booth?

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Well, no, because while researching it, I found the top

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two. So I applied it both, coincidentally, which

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I'm saying is more like a miracle. I have an interview with both

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companies. So the first interview, this kind of paints

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the picture for the future and stays with me throughout my

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entire career. It's my competitor. I go in there

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first, and it's like, in some general sales meeting room with tables

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all lined up, and it's three men in suits across

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from me, and I'm sitting by myself in a chair in front of them. Remember,

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I'm like some 22 year old girl. Like, I still have no clue, you know?

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I just know I want to get that job. Like, I want to be in

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that suit, making that money, right? So

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I just recall them, like, laughing and talking to each other

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while I was in the interview. And I just felt, like, so weird. Like, I

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don't even think they're listening to me. So I get my car, and I go

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to the next one. This is in an HR, like,

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office with a gentleman, and he sits me down. He's like, so what is it

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you want to do? And I'm like, oh, there was this girl in the bar,

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and she's wearing the suit. Like, literally went down like that. And he goes, he

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goes, you're talking about the on premise, like, restaurants, bars,

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hotels, clubs. I'm like, yeah, that was it. That sounds good. And he goes, yeah,

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you can't do that. And I'm like, oh, well, how do I get to do

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that? And he goes, you need to be in the chains for at least six

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months. I'm like, okay, well, what's that? And he's like, you gotta get up

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at. So you knew nothing? Two in the morning. You literally knew nothing. I know.

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You gotta get up at two in the morning, and you gotta stock the shelves

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and dust them. I'm like, okay, that's okay. I'll do

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that. And so he goes, hold on a second. He goes

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out, another gentleman comes in, he starts asking me questions.

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They go out again. They come back in, and they say, we like to hire

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you. So that company hired me on the spot. How did that

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feel? Like, right away? Did you expect that? And you were. I

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felt like. I feel like I've always kind of just known my

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purpose. Like, if I'm in the right moment, I just kind

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of. It's just like, right now, we're talking, like you're asking me

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questions, and we're just having a conversation.

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And I'm sure it was just like that with them, too, versus

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the other environment where it was just like, almost

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like, yeah, right. It was all makes sense. Yeah. You said that suit thing

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I want to go back to just for a second. And I worked for corporate

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America. I worked for Xerox. It was the greatest sales organization in the world at

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the time, or one of them, anyway. And one of our. My

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teammates, her husband owned a sporting goods store or worked at

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a sporting goods store, and he used to come to these events that Xerox hosted,

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and we'd all be wearing suits. And one day he pulled me aside, he

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goes, one day I'm gonna wear a suit, too. And I thought,

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you know, I didn't know any different. I just applied for the job. I got

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a job. I wore a suit. That's what you're supposed to do, I thought. But

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there was some kind of ambiance about that. There was some kind of

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aristocracy about seeing somebody in a suit for this gentleman

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that he aspired to do. That sounds like what was happening with you.

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Well, I think it goes back to a generation, too, like

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your parents, your dad being here, and

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it's a form of respect. And I,

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coming from a family that's very, you know, that's. It's important.

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So if that's the attire, that's what I'm gonna wear. You

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know, I don't. That. So that kind of

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goes into. I was immediately put in a male

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dominated business. Yeah, well, it is. There were not any females.

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I mean, it was very few females.

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Saleswomen. And then as far as leadership, there was none at that time.

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What year was that? Do you remember? So that was

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2004. Wow. It's well

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past. And I was in the corporate America in the eighties, and

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I had to apologize to every woman in my branch, all the salespeople. I

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had to apologize for. What would you do? Because I demonstrated a

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copier, and I alluded to the fact that any secretary

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could do this. And then later, I used her as the pronoun for

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secretaries, and the shit hit the fan. And I was told to

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write, and I had to stuff an apology letter in every key, every

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mail slot at the company saying, I did not mean to

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insinuate that secretaries are women and women are stupid. Yeah.

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So you're talking about 2004, and still there's nobody,

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nobody in corporate America. So maybe it's the liquor business,

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wine. Business, but the thing is, you see something right there where it's

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like every generation has the opportunity

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to make the change, and if you think about, like,

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I think about my managers. The best

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ones were the ones that had women around them,

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and the worst were the

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ones that if I raised my

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voice, I was screaming. If I made a certain face, I'm in a bad

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mood. You know what I mean? Like, never.

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I see. Yes. Yeah. So

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I feel like with what you're saying, too, like, it's important. It

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changes with each of us. And

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so did you feel like then, because of

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that role, because you saw that there was. I mean, you've been here how many

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years? I'm almost entirely staffed by women here. I

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always just work better with them. But did you feel

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like you had a task then to. I always had to prove

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00:13:50,976 --> 00:13:54,192
myself. Cause it was always. It was always

228
00:13:54,288 --> 00:13:58,000
different, especially when you're younger. Like, I grew

229
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up in this business in my twenties and in my thirties,

230
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I didn't have my kids till I was

231
00:14:05,444 --> 00:14:08,796
36, and so

232
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I gave a lot to this business. And the thing is, is

233
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you have to give up a lot if you want to keep moving forward.

234
00:14:16,444 --> 00:14:20,188
And I remember feeling like, in my twenties,

235
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I was married to the job. Like, it was literally my husband. Like,

236
00:14:24,100 --> 00:14:27,784
it was just night and day and pretty much

237
00:14:27,824 --> 00:14:31,448
all the way through. COVID. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, that's why you acted

238
00:14:31,496 --> 00:14:35,312
here. So. So the chain work is probably the toughest work,

239
00:14:35,408 --> 00:14:39,000
and the chains for the listeners, I mean, you're. For the listeners. I don't understand

240
00:14:39,072 --> 00:14:42,640
that when it's what made Gallo famous is how they

241
00:14:42,672 --> 00:14:46,440
handled merchandising in these big stores. And so you were

242
00:14:46,472 --> 00:14:49,824
boots in the field. Yeah, you're in the field. You're in the field. You're fronting

243
00:14:49,864 --> 00:14:53,584
merchandise. You're basically getting up super early,

244
00:14:53,624 --> 00:14:57,424
and you're meeting all the trucks and all the pallets

245
00:14:57,464 --> 00:15:00,808
come out into the aisles, and you're just throwing

246
00:15:00,856 --> 00:15:03,604
loads. And so let's talk about that for a second.

247
00:15:04,424 --> 00:15:08,168
That was something. Again, as a female. Yeah, I'd be in

248
00:15:08,216 --> 00:15:11,720
heels because I didn't. You know, a lot of times, I would wear high heels

249
00:15:11,792 --> 00:15:15,592
to make sure I was at the same eye level as some man that

250
00:15:15,608 --> 00:15:19,340
I worked with. It was, like, a strategic thing. Like, those

251
00:15:19,372 --> 00:15:23,012
are things I think about. And so. But then you had

252
00:15:23,028 --> 00:15:26,316
to. But then I would never give an excuse, like, if I'm in heels or,

253
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:30,180
like, someone say, like, can I help you? It's actually something that I deal

254
00:15:30,212 --> 00:15:33,932
with, like, where I don't like asking for help, because I never

255
00:15:33,988 --> 00:15:37,764
wanted to give anybody that reason to be able

256
00:15:37,804 --> 00:15:41,464
to say, like, oh, well, she this or you know, like,

257
00:15:42,164 --> 00:15:45,900
I just wanted to always be able to do it myself. Yeah. And show them

258
00:15:45,932 --> 00:15:49,432
that it could be done in three inch heels and with

259
00:15:49,488 --> 00:15:53,016
nails and. But, yeah, you were throwing cases.

260
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,816
Cases. Actually, two things that I never liked.

261
00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,376
The hardest part of the business, carrying cases and dealing with

262
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,000
people's credit. But, yeah, I mean, the cases, like, some of them are

263
00:16:04,032 --> 00:16:07,880
super heavy, depending on the glass. But you did it. You just did it. Because

264
00:16:07,912 --> 00:16:11,656
that's what they were having to. Do for the listeners. A case of wine, typical

265
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,472
bottle of wine is 36 pounds, and if they decide to put it in heavy

266
00:16:15,528 --> 00:16:19,224
glass, they call it. It's around 50 pounds. So. And I remember

267
00:16:19,264 --> 00:16:22,072
carrying two cases at a time, my dad's store, but I was 16 and 18

268
00:16:22,128 --> 00:16:25,936
years old. But let's just focus really fast. Cause this is

269
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,248
really interesting. But chain work, meaning

270
00:16:29,336 --> 00:16:32,856
Ralph's, whatever large, big box store there is,

271
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,376
is more than just sort of handling the account and make sure the wine gets

272
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,964
there, make sure the booze gets there. It's. You're sort of fighting for shelf space.

273
00:16:41,904 --> 00:16:45,576
The most famous, I think I mentioned earlier, is the Gallo brothers

274
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,344
themselves would go into, like, thrifty, the

275
00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:53,176
pharmacy, and front their own stuff. Yes. And then, can

276
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,032
I ask you, is that shelf space random? No,

277
00:16:57,088 --> 00:17:00,888
it's definitely not random. So we have

278
00:17:00,936 --> 00:17:04,520
surveys. They still go on today, but

279
00:17:04,672 --> 00:17:08,456
basically, the suppliers are working with Ralph's

280
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,104
or whoever the chain is. The supplier being the person

281
00:17:12,144 --> 00:17:15,684
that brings the stuff to you as a distributor? Yes.

282
00:17:15,844 --> 00:17:19,684
And so that supplier is pretty much sponsoring or

283
00:17:19,724 --> 00:17:23,452
buying space on the end caps. So you have your aisles, and at

284
00:17:23,468 --> 00:17:27,028
the end, you'll have featured products. And that's all planned

285
00:17:27,076 --> 00:17:30,916
out throughout the calendar year for an x amount

286
00:17:30,940 --> 00:17:34,444
of dollars. So that's how those get

287
00:17:34,484 --> 00:17:38,164
actually placed in the grocery

288
00:17:38,204 --> 00:17:41,604
stores. So I did a show with Mike

289
00:17:41,644 --> 00:17:45,276
Houlihan and Bonnie, and they established the

290
00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:48,996
brand barefoot cellars. And they're the ones that told me the

291
00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:52,636
stories about running into Ernest Gallo, fronting merchandise, and they decided to

292
00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:55,684
copy him. But when he first came to me, and this is

293
00:17:55,724 --> 00:17:59,460
anecdotal, in 1989, he came to my office, and he

294
00:17:59,492 --> 00:18:03,156
says, we have a barefoot cellars wine. It's the

295
00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:06,898
chateau Lafitte feet of the California wine business.

296
00:18:07,036 --> 00:18:10,718
And the guy left, and I called my dad. I go, this is the dumbest

297
00:18:10,766 --> 00:18:14,014
thing I've ever heard in my life. I can't believe he's trying to do this,

298
00:18:14,054 --> 00:18:17,194
and he ends up being the biggest brand in America. So that's what I know.

299
00:18:17,774 --> 00:18:21,622
So you go through this chain part and are you dying to get out of

300
00:18:21,638 --> 00:18:25,334
it to do the next level? Yeah. I mean, it's tough because you have all

301
00:18:25,374 --> 00:18:29,078
those big wigs coming in and wanting to make sure that

302
00:18:29,206 --> 00:18:32,674
everything that they paid for is in its space,

303
00:18:34,654 --> 00:18:38,294
but that's, you know, how you grow brands. So then

304
00:18:38,794 --> 00:18:42,354
you had. I had to be in there for six months, and the

305
00:18:42,394 --> 00:18:46,034
first month I started, you know,

306
00:18:46,074 --> 00:18:49,610
applying for positions. You try to find an

307
00:18:49,642 --> 00:18:53,054
area, a territory, you know, where you're gonna have

308
00:18:53,354 --> 00:18:56,530
anywhere from 40 to, like, 120

309
00:18:56,602 --> 00:19:00,090
accounts. You usually want it to be somewhat in your

310
00:19:00,122 --> 00:19:03,426
backyard. So that took about a month, and one came

311
00:19:03,490 --> 00:19:07,124
up. And that's actually when I first met our good

312
00:19:07,164 --> 00:19:10,788
friend Melissa. Wow. Bo had a

313
00:19:10,876 --> 00:19:14,300
cherry, picked her right out of Buca de Beppo. And

314
00:19:14,412 --> 00:19:17,844
so I show up, and it's just. It's actually a funny thing

315
00:19:17,884 --> 00:19:21,244
because she wouldn't even look at me like she knew who I was. But again,

316
00:19:21,284 --> 00:19:24,756
I'm walking in like, hello, you know? That's funny.

317
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:27,664
And so she got the job, and.

318
00:19:28,284 --> 00:19:31,904
But it was crazy. Again, another miracle,

319
00:19:32,744 --> 00:19:36,312
another position open the next month, and then Beau hired

320
00:19:36,368 --> 00:19:39,784
me that month. I didn't realize that Melissa has such

321
00:19:39,824 --> 00:19:42,284
pedigree working at Bucca de Beppo.

322
00:19:43,464 --> 00:19:47,184
Hey, she is literally, she's a hustler. She's the best

323
00:19:47,264 --> 00:19:50,296
in. She's the best in Cali, for sure.

324
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,176
So Beau hires you. So you were. So

325
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,832
when you came here, you were working for Beau, or you

326
00:19:57,848 --> 00:20:01,514
were. So basically, I started in the chains, and then I got

327
00:20:01,554 --> 00:20:04,674
hired on with Bo as a sales rep in the

328
00:20:04,714 --> 00:20:08,514
union for the on premise. So I had, like, burbank lunch

329
00:20:08,594 --> 00:20:12,314
restaurants where they pour stuff. Yeah. So

330
00:20:12,354 --> 00:20:16,090
it was a lot of fun because Pasadena at the time, like, it. It

331
00:20:16,122 --> 00:20:19,450
was a great time. Again, we were, Melissa and I were, like, in our twenties

332
00:20:19,642 --> 00:20:22,994
and twenties and thirties, and we just went out

333
00:20:23,034 --> 00:20:26,632
and goes back to relationships. We would

334
00:20:26,818 --> 00:20:30,420
go there, support our accounts, come through with

335
00:20:30,452 --> 00:20:34,004
whatever anybody needed the next week, and just grew the

336
00:20:34,044 --> 00:20:37,844
business. And that was a new learning curve for you. Yeah. And you're

337
00:20:37,884 --> 00:20:41,708
still, what, 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's

338
00:20:41,756 --> 00:20:45,580
crazy. You're starting early in the morning because you have to plan

339
00:20:45,612 --> 00:20:49,036
out your day. What does it need to sell? Your goals, all that kind of

340
00:20:49,060 --> 00:20:52,784
stuff. Quotas. And then you're taking care of any

341
00:20:52,824 --> 00:20:56,624
unfinished business, and you're just hitting the field and just seeing as

342
00:20:56,664 --> 00:21:00,400
many people as you can, you know, throughout the day. So let's

343
00:21:00,432 --> 00:21:04,204
delineate for the listeners that understand, you know, because I think

344
00:21:04,824 --> 00:21:08,536
by design. And really no reason for the consumer to understand that. But when you

345
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,280
walk into a restaurant and you're handed that wine list, that's

346
00:21:12,312 --> 00:21:15,992
not by accident. And if you order vodka on the

347
00:21:16,008 --> 00:21:19,844
rocks, like you said earlier, or something that's coming from the well, which is the.

348
00:21:20,224 --> 00:21:23,456
What they call the main pour of that store.

349
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,264
But if you call a drink, you ask for something

350
00:21:27,304 --> 00:21:31,072
in particular, like Belvedere or something, then that's a different level.

351
00:21:31,168 --> 00:21:34,124
Tito's. Tito's still pumping. Tito's.

352
00:21:34,864 --> 00:21:37,844
So for the listeners,

353
00:21:38,464 --> 00:21:41,968
all that is organized by people like

354
00:21:42,016 --> 00:21:45,288
you coming in. And saying, look, and our relationship.

355
00:21:45,376 --> 00:21:49,170
Yes. So just like if

356
00:21:49,202 --> 00:21:52,682
a consumer had a relationship with an owner and they like to drink something

357
00:21:52,778 --> 00:21:56,214
specific, the owner brings it in. Right? So

358
00:21:56,714 --> 00:22:00,546
for the sales person, it's the relationship. I

359
00:22:00,570 --> 00:22:04,018
mean, that's it. I mean, that's basically the

360
00:22:04,066 --> 00:22:07,746
recipe to anyone's success in this business. But how do you build that

361
00:22:07,770 --> 00:22:11,586
relationship? Is just. Is me showing up saying,

362
00:22:11,690 --> 00:22:15,466
Paul, you're way more versed in wine

363
00:22:15,530 --> 00:22:19,242
and spirits than I am at the time that I met you. And even

364
00:22:19,298 --> 00:22:22,802
still now, and just being honest

365
00:22:22,858 --> 00:22:26,706
about who you really are and what you're capable of doing. I know

366
00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:29,714
that I might not be able to talk about it, but if you tell me

367
00:22:29,754 --> 00:22:33,538
something specific, I'll go. I'll make sure it's the right thing. I'll

368
00:22:33,586 --> 00:22:36,770
research it so I can come back and talk about features and

369
00:22:36,802 --> 00:22:40,480
benefits and then get you the price point you need. And

370
00:22:40,512 --> 00:22:44,324
then that just builds trust, you know, showing up again and again.

371
00:22:45,904 --> 00:22:49,744
You don't have to be a genius in any field as long

372
00:22:49,784 --> 00:22:53,608
as you have the passion to want to go out and

373
00:22:53,656 --> 00:22:57,176
figure it out and win and be successful and do what you. Say you're gonna

374
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,712
do. Exactly. I have to say, the 35 years I did this,

375
00:23:00,848 --> 00:23:03,664
the cycle of sales reps, all the various

376
00:23:03,744 --> 00:23:06,664
suppliers, let's just take the big guys.

377
00:23:07,644 --> 00:23:10,852
It ebbed and flows. There was one time where I was doing a lot of

378
00:23:10,868 --> 00:23:14,604
business with one of your competitors, and that gentleman moved on,

379
00:23:14,724 --> 00:23:18,324
and it plummeted. It literally plummeted from, like seven,

380
00:23:18,364 --> 00:23:21,784
$800,000 a year to like, nothing. And what's sad is,

381
00:23:22,084 --> 00:23:25,788
well, and it's sad that they had the opportunity.

382
00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:29,540
They never didn't have the opportunity. It's

383
00:23:29,572 --> 00:23:33,244
just taking advantage of it, seeing how far

384
00:23:33,284 --> 00:23:36,740
we can go with something. And when you build that trust,

385
00:23:36,852 --> 00:23:40,424
that's when it gets super fun in the business, because

386
00:23:40,844 --> 00:23:44,564
that's when both parties can be super

387
00:23:44,644 --> 00:23:48,380
creative and come up with all kinds of

388
00:23:48,452 --> 00:23:52,220
ways to innovate. And to change, like, okay, well, this isn't

389
00:23:52,252 --> 00:23:55,644
selling anymore. How can we make it work and then sell

390
00:23:55,684 --> 00:23:59,250
it? So I just. That's the best part about building the

391
00:23:59,282 --> 00:24:02,962
relationship for me, was just, like, being able

392
00:24:03,018 --> 00:24:06,218
to collaborate and just get super creative and make

393
00:24:06,266 --> 00:24:09,890
fun, because we all have to move boxes. No, you're right.

394
00:24:10,002 --> 00:24:13,570
We both have to move boxes. So if you can't move that box for that

395
00:24:13,602 --> 00:24:17,338
reason, we need to figure out why and fix it. There was

396
00:24:17,426 --> 00:24:21,002
the success that you had here, and I want to get into

397
00:24:21,138 --> 00:24:24,454
the gender specific problems that you encountered, but

398
00:24:25,754 --> 00:24:28,738
it always seemed to me, and I, of course, don't know the

399
00:24:28,866 --> 00:24:32,466
emaciations of corporate wine and

400
00:24:32,490 --> 00:24:36,298
distilled spirits, America, but it was always obvious,

401
00:24:36,386 --> 00:24:39,626
particularly with the volume that we were buying, which was quite a bit at our

402
00:24:39,650 --> 00:24:42,934
peak. I mean, we were buying 8700 cases of wine at a time

403
00:24:43,954 --> 00:24:47,362
that it was your fearlessness

404
00:24:47,498 --> 00:24:50,926
inside the company. Yes. Like, how much work you're going to put into doing this

405
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:54,694
for Paul and then trying to do it. And you were successful.

406
00:24:54,734 --> 00:24:58,046
I'd say 90% of the time, when I needed something from you, you'd pull it

407
00:24:58,070 --> 00:25:01,622
off. Yeah. And not knowing how high up the ranks you had to go to

408
00:25:01,638 --> 00:25:05,366
do that, it, um. That's one of the

409
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:08,982
crazy things that I think gets you towards the end is, like,

410
00:25:09,158 --> 00:25:12,954
you move mountains for people because you really care.

411
00:25:13,654 --> 00:25:17,502
And it just. I think that's what kind of, like, it gets to

412
00:25:17,518 --> 00:25:21,270
be a lot, but that's what you're doing. You're literally. You have to start

413
00:25:21,342 --> 00:25:25,006
selling to your own company. I got to sell to the credit department

414
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:28,630
that the order's going to release and he's going to cut a check. I have

415
00:25:28,662 --> 00:25:32,430
to tell the inventory person, yes. I have to line up

416
00:25:32,462 --> 00:25:35,822
everything, that here's a contract that he's going to take the 700

417
00:25:35,878 --> 00:25:39,550
cases I'm having to sell to everybody

418
00:25:39,702 --> 00:25:43,286
to get it done. And at the end of the day, it goes back to

419
00:25:43,310 --> 00:25:46,926
just being true to yourself and

420
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:50,638
just everyone just being like, you know, you're gonna need to

421
00:25:50,646 --> 00:25:54,422
sell it for that price point at some point. Like, do it now. I

422
00:25:54,438 --> 00:25:57,766
can't tell how many people, and they would. Wouldn't do it in previous

423
00:25:57,830 --> 00:26:01,662
deals, and then would come back a year later, nine months later, and

424
00:26:01,678 --> 00:26:04,702
say, we still have it then the wines, not the wine, wasn't any good at

425
00:26:04,718 --> 00:26:08,536
that point, and so they had their shot. So inside

426
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,272
selling corporate America, we've got hierarchies, we've got to go up the

427
00:26:12,288 --> 00:26:15,680
ladder, we have to go to the supplier sometimes, like, paul's going to buy this

428
00:26:15,712 --> 00:26:19,232
wine, like the hess. You remember the Hess shirt tail cabernet? I mean, that was

429
00:26:19,248 --> 00:26:22,444
like incredible price, right? Because

430
00:26:23,024 --> 00:26:26,776
I'll just tell the listeners that that deal came down to

431
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,688
such a substantial discount, but it was less money than the

432
00:26:30,736 --> 00:26:34,192
penalty imposed by the supplier or the winery or the group supplying the

433
00:26:34,208 --> 00:26:37,616
wine was going to fine at the end of the year because the inventory was

434
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,896
still here. So this is like stuff that people. Well, that's one where I had

435
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,184
to get creative. That's one where the creative side came out.

436
00:26:44,224 --> 00:26:47,768
Cause that's a well known brand, but the brand

437
00:26:47,856 --> 00:26:51,600
that you had access to, not everybody else

438
00:26:51,632 --> 00:26:55,216
had access to because, you know, it was a

439
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,744
restaurant, right? So true. That was a

440
00:26:58,784 --> 00:27:02,344
selling point for me to be able to go to them, to be like,

441
00:27:02,464 --> 00:27:05,874
how cool is this that we're gonna get this wine

442
00:27:05,954 --> 00:27:09,770
in, you know, 200 homes and they're gonna

443
00:27:09,802 --> 00:27:13,586
see the brand name and those impressions. And

444
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:15,054
so that's what I'm selling too.

445
00:27:18,234 --> 00:27:21,954
So this is not an easy task. I mean, for a male,

446
00:27:22,034 --> 00:27:25,730
not an easy task. Like I said, I worked at corporate America. I totally

447
00:27:25,762 --> 00:27:29,466
understand the hierarchies and the outlooks. The 30 day, 60 day, 90 day

448
00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:32,802
outlooks, the brand. What are you doing with this account? I know all those conversations.

449
00:27:32,938 --> 00:27:36,754
I know them well. But you're

450
00:27:36,874 --> 00:27:40,570
one of a few women that are in the street fighting

451
00:27:40,602 --> 00:27:44,026
for this position. And you talked about earlier how it was

452
00:27:44,170 --> 00:27:47,546
married to the job. I mean, that sounds like it

453
00:27:47,570 --> 00:27:50,934
anyway. But tell me about headwinds.

454
00:27:51,234 --> 00:27:53,614
Not to say disrespect, and I don't mean,

455
00:27:54,514 --> 00:27:57,694
but that extra effort it took because you're a woman.

456
00:27:58,734 --> 00:28:02,390
Um, I definitely, it

457
00:28:02,542 --> 00:28:05,354
first starts with appearance, so

458
00:28:06,174 --> 00:28:09,726
I can't tell you how many women. It's funny,

459
00:28:09,790 --> 00:28:13,354
I, I don't, I feel like, in a way,

460
00:28:14,614 --> 00:28:18,342
as much as I want to empower women

461
00:28:18,518 --> 00:28:22,126
at the same time, I'm like, but you gotta play the

462
00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:25,806
game, okay? And especially when you're in sales.

463
00:28:25,910 --> 00:28:29,694
So for sure, when you show up and it's four men, don't

464
00:28:29,774 --> 00:28:33,478
give them limp hand shake. Like, give them a hard

465
00:28:33,526 --> 00:28:36,686
handshake, look at them in the eye and let them know you're ready to rock

466
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:40,142
and roll. Like, that's against the grain. Do you

467
00:28:40,158 --> 00:28:43,734
think for most women, I. Don'T think

468
00:28:43,814 --> 00:28:47,558
that they think like that. Yeah. And you? I think

469
00:28:47,606 --> 00:28:50,594
it comes from being an athlete

470
00:28:51,674 --> 00:28:55,330
and being very competitive. I'm very competitive

471
00:28:55,402 --> 00:28:59,106
wanting to win, and you have to have that in

472
00:28:59,130 --> 00:29:02,378
you. No one can teach you to do that. I mean, at the end of

473
00:29:02,386 --> 00:29:05,962
the day, you're gonna either grab someone's hand and give them a

474
00:29:05,978 --> 00:29:09,754
firm handshake, or you're not males. I know men that don't do that.

475
00:29:09,834 --> 00:29:13,450
Yeah. And it's first impression for me. Side note, real

476
00:29:13,482 --> 00:29:17,106
fast, we're talking about acting. Yeah. And there's this one methodology

477
00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:20,438
called Chubbuck. And she. I've been reading her book, and it's

478
00:29:20,606 --> 00:29:24,262
exactly that. It's like you have to

479
00:29:24,318 --> 00:29:28,030
embrace that you want to win. Whatever, whatever role you're playing

480
00:29:28,142 --> 00:29:31,726
and whatever emotions you're pulling back or pulling from,

481
00:29:31,870 --> 00:29:35,678
it's basically about winning. Your objective as the actor,

482
00:29:35,726 --> 00:29:39,342
whatever your role is in this job and this overall thing, I thought when you

483
00:29:39,358 --> 00:29:42,382
said that, I go, wow, that's really what it is. It's like you. If you're

484
00:29:42,398 --> 00:29:46,050
not motivated to, it's not win. Like, you don't mean

485
00:29:46,082 --> 00:29:49,642
winning by cheating somebody else. You mean winning by

486
00:29:49,778 --> 00:29:53,434
accomplishing your goal. Well, you have to stay ahead. That's the other

487
00:29:53,474 --> 00:29:57,154
thing, too. So in a way, you have to win, especially

488
00:29:57,274 --> 00:30:01,034
if you're just getting started. You have to prove yourself, and you're going

489
00:30:01,034 --> 00:30:04,754
to have to prove yourself again and again. You're going to have to reinvent

490
00:30:04,834 --> 00:30:08,570
yourself by accepting change and growing with the

491
00:30:08,602 --> 00:30:12,270
changing times. I mean, when I first started, we were using those, like,

492
00:30:12,342 --> 00:30:16,126
brick tells on units where you, like, used the payphone that was

493
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:19,942
all sticky and the facts, like, you'd hold it up

494
00:30:19,958 --> 00:30:23,594
to the phone, to pagers and, you know what I mean?

495
00:30:24,094 --> 00:30:27,910
Now everyone's just got their head in the computer, not building

496
00:30:27,982 --> 00:30:31,794
that relationship with the customer. So

497
00:30:32,094 --> 00:30:35,694
it has to do with you just accepting change

498
00:30:35,774 --> 00:30:38,910
and rolling with it, because in this business, it

499
00:30:38,942 --> 00:30:42,680
continues to change. It also repeats

500
00:30:42,712 --> 00:30:46,136
the past, too, and just, you know,

501
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,776
reinvents the wheel. But anyways,

502
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,504
how long was it before. You felt like, or did you ever feel,

503
00:30:53,544 --> 00:30:57,152
like, absolutely accepted by the rank, rank and

504
00:30:57,168 --> 00:31:00,448
file and the management? So that

505
00:31:00,616 --> 00:31:04,280
goes back to what I first mentioned when we started. It goes in waves,

506
00:31:04,352 --> 00:31:08,044
because if you are working for a manager that doesn't

507
00:31:08,124 --> 00:31:11,628
accept the opinion of women or

508
00:31:11,716 --> 00:31:15,004
accept how a woman got something

509
00:31:15,124 --> 00:31:18,868
done, it's going to be a different

510
00:31:18,916 --> 00:31:22,764
experience versus a manager who

511
00:31:22,804 --> 00:31:26,596
takes a step back and says, go. Just

512
00:31:26,660 --> 00:31:30,380
go be you. Rock and roll. Let me know what you

513
00:31:30,412 --> 00:31:33,986
need, any support, anything like that. And then you got your supply

514
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:37,790
behind you, too. I mean, you can do anything.

515
00:31:37,862 --> 00:31:41,286
So, fortunately, the last couple

516
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:45,070
I had were like that, and it made

517
00:31:45,182 --> 00:31:48,194
it made it easier for me to retire because

518
00:31:49,414 --> 00:31:53,238
at that point, I felt like I had broken every glass ceiling I could

519
00:31:53,286 --> 00:31:56,914
break and done everything that I could do there.

520
00:31:57,254 --> 00:32:00,808
And my purpose and my time was. Was done, and it was.

521
00:32:00,936 --> 00:32:04,136
I needed to move on to taking care of the kids. I have to tell

522
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,728
you, Sandra and I talk about this. My wife and I talk about this all

523
00:32:07,736 --> 00:32:11,240
the time for the listeners that when we

524
00:32:11,272 --> 00:32:14,976
retired, was the same day you retired. Oh, yeah. March 31.

525
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,256
Wow. Oh, yeah. April. Mine was April 3, but yeah.

526
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,184
And I say, you know, without Julie's help

527
00:32:22,224 --> 00:32:25,964
all these years, and I want to make sure I helped her

528
00:32:26,284 --> 00:32:29,900
do the things that she needed to do. We retired at the right

529
00:32:29,932 --> 00:32:33,708
time on that relationship alone because I would have had to start all over

530
00:32:33,756 --> 00:32:37,540
again with a new rep who has different motivations,

531
00:32:37,612 --> 00:32:40,740
who doesn't. Whatever it is, our relationship

532
00:32:40,932 --> 00:32:44,424
synergized, and we got a lot done together. And

533
00:32:44,844 --> 00:32:47,396
that was kind of writing on the wall when you say things happen for a

534
00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:50,664
reason. That was an important relationship that I lost.

535
00:32:50,964 --> 00:32:54,092
That would have been hard to replace, would have made my job a lot harder.

536
00:32:54,188 --> 00:32:56,932
Yeah. I have to tell you an anecdotal story. In

537
00:32:56,948 --> 00:33:00,624
1982, when I was selling copiers to

538
00:33:01,204 --> 00:33:04,948
Vernon, 82, by the way, is. A very important

539
00:33:05,036 --> 00:33:08,644
year. Why? Oh, the year I was

540
00:33:08,684 --> 00:33:12,344
born, I was gonna say. And the year started his business.

541
00:33:12,804 --> 00:33:16,620
Really? When you were talking about Phelps earlier, that was one of the first places

542
00:33:16,692 --> 00:33:20,484
we went away with when we. Together with Joseph Phelps.

543
00:33:20,564 --> 00:33:24,266
Yep. And we drank 1982. Wow. Okay. So it's all right. This

544
00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:27,482
all comes for a circle. Full circle again. There was a guy named Bill. He

545
00:33:27,498 --> 00:33:30,454
was one of my great

546
00:33:31,394 --> 00:33:35,210
relationships in my career and a very interesting business because they made

547
00:33:35,242 --> 00:33:38,834
the machines that bottle or canned seven up in coke and stuff.

548
00:33:38,954 --> 00:33:42,778
So they're the colangelist can company. And so my knowledge of

549
00:33:42,826 --> 00:33:46,330
canning wine goes back to 1982 when I used to watch these

550
00:33:46,362 --> 00:33:50,042
machines. Anyway, it was clear he did not

551
00:33:50,218 --> 00:33:53,786
appreciate women in the workforce. Obvious. And I did.

552
00:33:53,850 --> 00:33:57,546
Never asked him. Never came across the

553
00:33:57,570 --> 00:34:01,410
conversation. We'd never discussed it. But he was

554
00:34:01,522 --> 00:34:05,226
a short sleeve, polyester white button down shirt guy. And you could

555
00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:08,770
just. I knew it. And I had to call my

556
00:34:08,802 --> 00:34:11,794
boss, who was a female at the time, great

557
00:34:11,834 --> 00:34:15,306
manager. She says, I want you to call his

558
00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:18,895
boss. And, you know, going over somebody's head is not a good

559
00:34:18,919 --> 00:34:22,615
idea generally. No. I go, look. She goes, I need this

560
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:26,135
sale. And it was a big sale. It was like a $200,000 copy. Okay.

561
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:28,763
$200,000 copy. Yeah. Okay. That's a lot.

562
00:34:29,223 --> 00:34:32,895
1982 also. Yeah. So I call the company, and I asked for the

563
00:34:32,919 --> 00:34:36,151
president. The answer she goes, hello? And I said, this Paul from

564
00:34:36,167 --> 00:34:39,959
Xerox, blah, blah. And he goes, we're gonna buy it. Thank

565
00:34:39,991 --> 00:34:43,812
you for calling. I got a phone call immediately after from Bill saying, what

566
00:34:43,828 --> 00:34:47,012
are you doing? How can you go over my head like this? You know, that's

567
00:34:47,028 --> 00:34:50,588
the kind of manager he was. I'm reflecting on the reason, because this probably

568
00:34:50,636 --> 00:34:54,396
exists in the wine and booze business. And I knew if

569
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:57,844
I was able to discreetly say that my

570
00:34:57,964 --> 00:35:01,732
woman manager asked me to call him, that I'd

571
00:35:01,748 --> 00:35:05,516
be off the hook. So I said, bill, I was

572
00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:09,232
talking to my manager, and she told me to call. That's all I said. And

573
00:35:09,248 --> 00:35:13,016
he goes, your boss is a woman? I go, yeah. He goes, you know,

574
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,760
they shouldn't be in the workforce. And I was totally off the hook because

575
00:35:16,792 --> 00:35:20,232
of his sexism. Totally off the hook. And I

576
00:35:20,248 --> 00:35:23,704
thought, wow. But you're talking about different part of America.

577
00:35:23,824 --> 00:35:27,504
But there still is a disparity in

578
00:35:27,544 --> 00:35:31,384
corporate America in executives, particularly in the wine and liquor industry

579
00:35:31,504 --> 00:35:35,292
of executive women. Did that change at all when you were going through this?

580
00:35:35,408 --> 00:35:38,836
Um, no, it doesn't. I. I mean, I can't tell you. I've been

581
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:42,500
in a lot of meetings where I've had men

582
00:35:42,532 --> 00:35:45,544
just not even look at me because

583
00:35:46,084 --> 00:35:49,628
they don't. Are they nuts? They don't know. Well, they just. They don't

584
00:35:49,676 --> 00:35:53,076
know. They think I'm just there, like, taking notes. Yeah.

585
00:35:53,180 --> 00:35:56,860
Um, I'd say for a lot of my meetings,

586
00:35:56,892 --> 00:35:59,820
if I am walking in with a male sales

587
00:35:59,892 --> 00:36:03,684
representative, I mean, I could be three levels higher.

588
00:36:04,024 --> 00:36:07,712
And they would assume the sales rep was the manager.

589
00:36:07,768 --> 00:36:11,216
Wow. And they would always have to correct the

590
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:14,456
buyer to say, actually, this is, you know, she's

591
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,936
director, she's a division manager. Whatever it was at the

592
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,624
time, that happened a lot. That's amazing.

593
00:36:21,664 --> 00:36:25,456
Really. Yeah. So. So let's say now

594
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,684
you've done this. You. You were very successful.

595
00:36:29,584 --> 00:36:32,604
You were put in charge of some rather important,

596
00:36:34,024 --> 00:36:37,864
what they call allocations for the listener. If there's only so much available

597
00:36:37,944 --> 00:36:40,644
to the whole country, then each market

598
00:36:41,384 --> 00:36:44,944
area gets so many bottles of whatever it is, whether it's bourbon

599
00:36:44,984 --> 00:36:48,736
or wine or whatever. And you became in

600
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,824
charge of some of this high level allocations?

601
00:36:51,944 --> 00:36:54,704
Yes. Was that a promotion at that point?

602
00:36:56,124 --> 00:36:59,356
Nobody else wanted to do it? Yeah, it's definitely a job

603
00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:02,940
everybody wants because, I mean, you have

604
00:37:03,012 --> 00:37:06,564
access to the best of the best, and they

605
00:37:06,604 --> 00:37:09,584
are extremely limited. And

606
00:37:10,404 --> 00:37:13,540
I think COVID changed a lot of it.

607
00:37:13,732 --> 00:37:16,940
But, yeah, there were bottles that

608
00:37:17,132 --> 00:37:20,724
sometimes I would get, like, three bottles for all of Southern

609
00:37:20,764 --> 00:37:23,384
California or my region,

610
00:37:24,404 --> 00:37:27,964
and I'd have to allocate them out to the right

611
00:37:28,084 --> 00:37:31,380
buyers. And it was tough. So tough. It's really tough.

612
00:37:31,532 --> 00:37:35,292
But was that a promotion inside the company or just added to your job?

613
00:37:35,428 --> 00:37:39,028
Okay, so I went from on premise sales

614
00:37:39,076 --> 00:37:42,876
representative. Then I became a key account manager, and then I became a

615
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:46,412
division manager, and then COVID hit,

616
00:37:46,508 --> 00:37:50,140
and I became a

617
00:37:50,172 --> 00:37:53,548
director of sales. That's where that job became.

618
00:37:53,636 --> 00:37:57,420
Yeah. So when did you say

619
00:37:57,452 --> 00:38:01,004
you had. How old are your kids now? Four years? They're seven. They're seven?

620
00:38:01,084 --> 00:38:04,916
Yeah. Wow. Triplets. So when did

621
00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:08,504
it hit you that, wait a minute,

622
00:38:09,524 --> 00:38:13,276
I can't do it all having. Well, the triplets, which is, you know,

623
00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:16,884
not easy for anybody, let alone a full time mom. But you weren't a full

624
00:38:16,924 --> 00:38:20,624
time mom. You were working in the streets. This is a very demanding job. Still

625
00:38:21,364 --> 00:38:24,860
district manager. When did you start thinking, well,

626
00:38:24,892 --> 00:38:28,492
it's in that business. You're out late

627
00:38:28,628 --> 00:38:31,984
all the time. You're doing several dinners a week.

628
00:38:33,284 --> 00:38:36,884
You're playing golf a lot, which is awesome.

629
00:38:36,964 --> 00:38:40,812
It's fun. But when you're out, everyone

630
00:38:40,868 --> 00:38:44,532
knows it slows you down. You can't do what you could do if you were

631
00:38:44,548 --> 00:38:48,172
in the office or out in the field. So there's a lot of

632
00:38:48,188 --> 00:38:51,644
trips away, a lot of nights staying in other

633
00:38:51,684 --> 00:38:55,132
counties, for example, lots of

634
00:38:55,228 --> 00:38:58,304
alcohol, amazing food.

635
00:38:59,524 --> 00:39:03,356
There's a lot of perks and stuff. But you're away, and you're not

636
00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:07,138
present with your family or with what

637
00:39:07,186 --> 00:39:10,746
maybe yourself, you know, and taking care of yourself.

638
00:39:10,930 --> 00:39:14,574
And I think what happened was

639
00:39:15,074 --> 00:39:17,774
I got into that director position,

640
00:39:18,274 --> 00:39:21,946
and I saw that there was nowhere else to

641
00:39:21,970 --> 00:39:25,722
go. And it's funny, like, when you want

642
00:39:25,738 --> 00:39:29,362
to work on your career and you want to continue growing and making more money

643
00:39:29,418 --> 00:39:33,060
and climbing that ladder, it really is like a

644
00:39:33,092 --> 00:39:36,812
chess game. You have to think a couple steps

645
00:39:36,908 --> 00:39:40,364
ahead. And what happens if this person goes here

646
00:39:40,444 --> 00:39:44,140
or this happens or they realign this division

647
00:39:44,252 --> 00:39:48,036
or take away these positions? So

648
00:39:48,060 --> 00:39:51,732
it's just a lot of thinking ahead and planning, but

649
00:39:51,868 --> 00:39:54,464
I feel like every move I made

650
00:39:55,164 --> 00:39:58,484
was done for a certain reason at the right

651
00:39:58,524 --> 00:40:01,584
time. And when COVID hit, they furloughed

652
00:40:01,624 --> 00:40:05,080
everybody, so there was just a few of us left.

653
00:40:05,192 --> 00:40:09,024
And I never worked so hard in my life when I thought I had

654
00:40:09,064 --> 00:40:12,560
already worked so hard. Like, I feel like I'd already,

655
00:40:12,712 --> 00:40:16,096
you know, even when I was pregnant with the triplets, like, I won

656
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:19,124
manager of the year that year, and,

657
00:40:19,744 --> 00:40:23,560
like, so I felt like I just done everything I

658
00:40:23,592 --> 00:40:27,292
could, and that business everything shut down.

659
00:40:27,348 --> 00:40:31,140
Like, LA is still recovering from it. If you drive down there, they're

660
00:40:31,172 --> 00:40:33,584
still boarded off. And

661
00:40:34,404 --> 00:40:37,964
so going through that was hard because it

662
00:40:38,004 --> 00:40:41,580
was from basically 06:00 a.m. To about 02:00 a.m. No

663
00:40:41,612 --> 00:40:45,436
joke. Because it was dealing with people's credit and trying to get

664
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:49,236
them up and running again because they had been closed, they hadn't had

665
00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:53,024
a liquor order since St. Patrick's Day.

666
00:40:53,644 --> 00:40:57,412
So it was just a crazy time. And then I

667
00:40:57,428 --> 00:41:01,004
had a dinner one night with a female executive,

668
00:41:01,124 --> 00:41:04,508
very few, but this one runs quite a few

669
00:41:04,556 --> 00:41:07,932
states. And I just, I was

670
00:41:07,988 --> 00:41:11,764
overhearing her talk about her kids, and I said, oh, you have two kids? Yes.

671
00:41:11,884 --> 00:41:15,612
Oh, who's taking care of the kids? Oh, my husband. Oh,

672
00:41:15,668 --> 00:41:19,458
okay. Does he stay at home? Yeah, he stays at home. So I'm just like,

673
00:41:19,506 --> 00:41:23,294
putting this all together and, you know, they say, like,

674
00:41:24,314 --> 00:41:27,134
I don't think you can have it all

675
00:41:28,154 --> 00:41:31,970
because you can't give everything

676
00:41:32,082 --> 00:41:35,666
100% of yourself. Like, you can't be present for

677
00:41:35,730 --> 00:41:38,978
everything. It's like the same as they say. Multitasking really isn't, like,

678
00:41:39,106 --> 00:41:42,866
efficient. I'm a multitasker. But they

679
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:46,272
say it's really not efficient because you're not giving that one thing

680
00:41:46,458 --> 00:41:49,304
everything and you're not just finishing it. So

681
00:41:50,444 --> 00:41:54,036
I wanted to be more present

682
00:41:54,220 --> 00:41:57,612
because if it's not your significant

683
00:41:57,748 --> 00:42:01,388
other doing it for you at home, it's

684
00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:05,036
somebody else and it's not you. Your husband

685
00:42:05,060 --> 00:42:08,756
is a thriving electrical business. He's not

686
00:42:08,780 --> 00:42:12,476
home. Very successful business. He's hardest worker

687
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:16,340
I know. He's out of the house by 415 to meet a load,

688
00:42:16,412 --> 00:42:19,740
and he comes home at 630 for dinner. And it's

689
00:42:19,772 --> 00:42:23,492
just, that's how we, we were. We're just like, so

690
00:42:23,508 --> 00:42:27,212
you're both doing this crazy machine where I have a

691
00:42:27,228 --> 00:42:30,024
nanny, and then it's like I have to hire someone to

692
00:42:30,444 --> 00:42:33,980
overlay, like, because I can't fit 8 hours

693
00:42:34,052 --> 00:42:37,900
in that business and do an eight hour work day. Was that gnawing

694
00:42:37,932 --> 00:42:41,388
on you for a while until you had this conversation or you just kind of

695
00:42:41,436 --> 00:42:44,900
woke up to it? No, this is something I had actually been

696
00:42:44,932 --> 00:42:48,762
asking, you know, for years. And you kind of. You have to wait for

697
00:42:48,778 --> 00:42:52,574
the right moment for your family too, you know, for it to make sense

698
00:42:53,114 --> 00:42:56,866
for the family to do that, to

699
00:42:57,050 --> 00:43:00,014
step away from a very

700
00:43:01,114 --> 00:43:04,426
great position. Well, there's obviously

701
00:43:04,450 --> 00:43:08,066
the salary and the work that's obviously

702
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:11,850
counts. You're eating at the best places, you're drinking the

703
00:43:11,882 --> 00:43:15,470
best stuff, you know, private

704
00:43:15,542 --> 00:43:19,190
dinners all the time, golfing of the best courses. I mean,

705
00:43:19,222 --> 00:43:22,354
it's. It's. It's amazing, but it just.

706
00:43:22,894 --> 00:43:26,742
It became where I just wasn't present, and that's what I wanted to

707
00:43:26,758 --> 00:43:30,566
do. And I wonder, and I also felt that I had another purpose like

708
00:43:30,590 --> 00:43:34,114
this. I had done everything I could. Yeah,

709
00:43:34,454 --> 00:43:38,206
that's a pretty serious revelation. Mm hmm. To

710
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:41,700
try reflect on that. And, you know, we only have one pass through here,

711
00:43:41,732 --> 00:43:45,388
so you want to maximize that value. And I was thinking that

712
00:43:45,556 --> 00:43:48,068
I had a winemaker. Tell me once, man, I eat the best food, I go

713
00:43:48,076 --> 00:43:51,812
to the best places, I drink the best wines, I meet

714
00:43:51,828 --> 00:43:55,284
the most amazing people. But his comment was, I don't make a lot of money

715
00:43:55,324 --> 00:43:58,980
doing this. And, you know, even me having done

716
00:43:59,012 --> 00:44:02,076
all this, and now we're starting to travel and get around and try to use

717
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:05,708
some of the relationships, I still feel like I want

718
00:44:05,716 --> 00:44:09,442
to be home sometimes. Like. Like I want to

719
00:44:09,458 --> 00:44:11,978
lever. We're going to Bordeaux, and I'm going to see all these great people that

720
00:44:11,986 --> 00:44:14,322
I've interviewed on the show, and we're going to have so much fun together. But

721
00:44:14,338 --> 00:44:17,938
I'm also sort of thinking, I can't wait to get home when that's done. And

722
00:44:17,946 --> 00:44:21,658
I'm wondering if even a single person, even if you weren't married,

723
00:44:21,706 --> 00:44:24,802
even I wasn't married and we were doing that, we'd probably still burn out a

724
00:44:24,818 --> 00:44:28,154
little bit. Yeah. I mean, think about this. How often do you go

725
00:44:28,194 --> 00:44:31,874
and do you really just, like, stop for a second and go

726
00:44:31,914 --> 00:44:35,626
walk in the vineyard by yourself? No, like, when's the last time you've done

727
00:44:35,650 --> 00:44:39,322
that? Yeah. Right. And if you think about it, every time you go visit

728
00:44:39,378 --> 00:44:42,938
one of those awesome wineries and you're hearing about the history

729
00:44:43,026 --> 00:44:46,202
and the views, like, I can see napa in my head right now is what

730
00:44:46,218 --> 00:44:50,010
I can see. I see a liquor store.

731
00:44:50,122 --> 00:44:53,610
Yeah, but you should be doing that. You know what I mean? It's like stopping

732
00:44:53,642 --> 00:44:57,466
and smelling the roses. Like, it just has become too

733
00:44:57,530 --> 00:45:01,342
fast paced. Like, a text isn't a text. An

734
00:45:01,358 --> 00:45:04,286
email is not an email. It's like, you better be looking at all of it.

735
00:45:04,430 --> 00:45:07,750
Twenty four seven. And, you know, especially in that business, there's no

736
00:45:07,782 --> 00:45:11,278
boundaries. No, because some places. No time

737
00:45:11,326 --> 00:45:14,926
borders. No. Some close at 02:00 a.m., hey, there's some out there that close at

738
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:18,646
04:00 a.m. And then guess what? They open at 06:00 a.m. So restaurant

739
00:45:18,670 --> 00:45:22,326
tours aren't exactly the nicest people when it comes to respect of your

740
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:26,126
time and your family. If, you know, for the listeners. I wanted to just touch

741
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:29,806
on the COVID side. What happened in the La market all over the country

742
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:33,598
is that most businesses, if you and I were going to start a

743
00:45:33,606 --> 00:45:37,046
winery, we would want to be in a restaurant because it's a house pour or

744
00:45:37,070 --> 00:45:40,566
it's on a list. It's like an annuity. People buy the glass

745
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:44,430
volume. Yeah, it's volume. Right. And when the COVID shut

746
00:45:44,462 --> 00:45:47,354
down all the restaurants, then 80% of the businesses,

747
00:45:48,094 --> 00:45:51,894
suppliers, I mean, I think your competitor put like 200

748
00:45:51,934 --> 00:45:55,782
people on the street or something. Ridiculous. Yeah. So. But

749
00:45:55,798 --> 00:45:59,512
it didn't matter because there was nothing we could do. And

750
00:45:59,528 --> 00:46:02,324
then it turned into to go business and

751
00:46:03,544 --> 00:46:07,352
packaging, you know, wine and spirits coming out and in different

752
00:46:07,408 --> 00:46:11,088
packaging. And now look at the. Look at the shelves in the grocery store now.

753
00:46:11,136 --> 00:46:14,200
I know. And they always say the on premise builds

754
00:46:14,232 --> 00:46:17,672
brands. You know, we talked about that a lot. Like in this business

755
00:46:17,728 --> 00:46:21,552
and it's true. There's an entire aisle now of

756
00:46:21,608 --> 00:46:25,054
canned wines, spirits, pouches,

757
00:46:25,474 --> 00:46:28,842
all kinds of things like that. You know, you were very funny during this process

758
00:46:28,978 --> 00:46:32,802
and you were self admittedly, and you probably would do it today,

759
00:46:32,858 --> 00:46:36,650
but I would try to teach you something about

760
00:46:36,682 --> 00:46:39,494
wine and you'd go one. Ear, not the other.

761
00:46:41,074 --> 00:46:43,574
Except for when you talked about like your family

762
00:46:44,394 --> 00:46:47,854
and I love those stories. You would go,

763
00:46:48,154 --> 00:46:51,666
okay, so how can I make this deal happen? Yeah, can we just get to

764
00:46:51,770 --> 00:46:55,616
how many cases and what's the bottle cost? I need to get to. And

765
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,360
does it have to be Stelvin or quark? All the rest of the stuff is

766
00:46:59,392 --> 00:47:03,016
going on. So are you happy that you did this? Yeah, I'm

767
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,888
very happy. It's taken a few

768
00:47:06,976 --> 00:47:10,824
months to kind of find myself and get back to

769
00:47:10,864 --> 00:47:13,324
just like breathing again.

770
00:47:14,424 --> 00:47:18,200
You mentioned that your kids. And I'm with you on that.

771
00:47:18,232 --> 00:47:21,860
I'm still struggling. I still can't like shut down. I still

772
00:47:21,892 --> 00:47:25,612
can't believe I don't have to be somewhere for something. Yes, a

773
00:47:25,628 --> 00:47:29,444
lot of that. But you said your kids didn't trust you when you got home.

774
00:47:29,564 --> 00:47:33,284
Oh, wow. You remembered that? Yeah, I'm actually still

775
00:47:33,324 --> 00:47:36,988
dealing with that. Really? And I think it has to do with just again,

776
00:47:37,076 --> 00:47:40,484
you're not fully there, you're not present. You have

777
00:47:40,644 --> 00:47:44,180
a team of people that you trust and that you've

778
00:47:44,372 --> 00:47:48,100
overly communicated as much as you can and shown them as

779
00:47:48,132 --> 00:47:51,272
much as you can. But at the end of the day, it's not you. And,

780
00:47:51,328 --> 00:47:54,168
you know, there's a lot of times where it's like, oh yeah, I'll try to

781
00:47:54,176 --> 00:47:57,472
be home at your 830. Like I want to rush it. And I'm sitting there

782
00:47:57,648 --> 00:48:01,120
with owners of brands that have just flown in

783
00:48:01,312 --> 00:48:05,048
and now they're, you know, their head of PR from New York is here

784
00:48:05,096 --> 00:48:08,768
and I'm sitting right next to them and it's now going to be midnight. How

785
00:48:08,816 --> 00:48:12,176
you did that? How did you justify, like, you're sitting with this guy and I

786
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,000
know exactly what you're talking about and you're

787
00:48:16,112 --> 00:48:19,096
chomping at the big cause, you know, that the kids are doing whatever Frank's doing,

788
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,282
whatever. How did you justify at that moment? Did you just go, I just gotta

789
00:48:22,298 --> 00:48:25,778
get through this? Well, that's where the trust is

790
00:48:25,866 --> 00:48:29,458
lost because I know that I have a support

791
00:48:29,546 --> 00:48:33,362
team that's gonna, you know, get him into bed and read him

792
00:48:33,378 --> 00:48:37,174
a book and do all the things that I wanted to do.

793
00:48:37,474 --> 00:48:41,094
So I was able, you know, to do that. Frank

794
00:48:42,394 --> 00:48:46,014
always supported me that way to make sure that I could keep working

795
00:48:46,524 --> 00:48:50,220
and stay focused. But I was thinking about it the whole time because,

796
00:48:50,412 --> 00:48:53,436
you know, I probably did say I was going to be home at nine and

797
00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:56,796
next thing you know, he's asleep and I'm walking in. 1130.

798
00:48:56,860 --> 00:49:00,580
Yeah. That cause friction? Oh, yeah. I think

799
00:49:00,612 --> 00:49:04,084
it causes, I mean, it. Would in any marriage. I'm just

800
00:49:04,124 --> 00:49:07,860
wondering. Oh yeah. I mean, think about it. I'm sure the

801
00:49:07,892 --> 00:49:11,108
women are always thinking like, what is my husband going out to do right now?

802
00:49:11,116 --> 00:49:14,908
He's at another bar, he's drinking. Oh, great. At St. Patrick's Day or

803
00:49:14,916 --> 00:49:18,692
it's Cinco de Mayo or whatever it is. And next thing you know,

804
00:49:18,708 --> 00:49:22,100
he has to stay at a hotel. What is he really doing? I mean, you

805
00:49:22,132 --> 00:49:25,784
have to have a solid foundation and,

806
00:49:27,244 --> 00:49:30,344
you know, and just trust your partner.

807
00:49:31,364 --> 00:49:34,916
But it is crazy because, I mean, let's be real. You're in

808
00:49:34,940 --> 00:49:38,740
bars, you're on alcohol. It's, the temptations

809
00:49:38,812 --> 00:49:42,040
are huge. In the eighties, in corporate America was

810
00:49:42,072 --> 00:49:45,560
drugs. I mean, in the halls of the greatest

811
00:49:45,592 --> 00:49:49,136
corporations, drugs. And there was so much infidelity and

812
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,016
alcoholism at that time, which probably isn't all that different now. It's just more

813
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,872
discreet. But I can't imagine when you add to

814
00:49:56,888 --> 00:50:00,704
it that the product being sold is, you know,

815
00:50:00,744 --> 00:50:03,804
dependent, mind altering. Yeah. Depends on this, right?

816
00:50:05,104 --> 00:50:08,468
Yes. In order for it to be successful. Yep.

817
00:50:08,636 --> 00:50:12,436
Well, okay. So I will say, though, what I

818
00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:16,224
loved about being a woman in this industry

819
00:50:16,844 --> 00:50:20,284
is once you do prove yourself right, that you can

820
00:50:20,324 --> 00:50:24,044
play with them, that anything they do, you can do better.

821
00:50:24,084 --> 00:50:27,052
I used to say that all the time. Like, anything they do, I can do

822
00:50:27,068 --> 00:50:30,404
better. I can be cliched, but we're gonna do that. But

823
00:50:30,444 --> 00:50:33,244
basically, like, it got to a point where,

824
00:50:34,104 --> 00:50:37,284
respectfully, like, they became brothers.

825
00:50:37,784 --> 00:50:41,616
So I also think that's part of how I was able to

826
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,272
do it for so long, you know, married with. With

827
00:50:45,328 --> 00:50:48,800
little ones, is that I was on a team.

828
00:50:48,992 --> 00:50:52,456
You know, it was like being on a baseball team. Like, those were my

829
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,364
teammates, and they protected me, and

830
00:50:56,304 --> 00:51:00,044
I always felt, you know, safe. So,

831
00:51:00,344 --> 00:51:03,640
you know, there's a double edged sword to this, a little bit. Looking at this

832
00:51:03,672 --> 00:51:07,112
picture over your shoulder of my dad. Oh, yeah, I love that. And I remember

833
00:51:07,168 --> 00:51:10,512
this well. I remember the day he took the picture. I'm like, what are you

834
00:51:10,528 --> 00:51:14,084
doing? Why are you doing this? And thank God he did. But

835
00:51:14,864 --> 00:51:18,672
I was about to do a monologue to test my acting skills, just so you

836
00:51:18,688 --> 00:51:22,524
know. Yeah. And the stories are going to be just snippet stories of my father,

837
00:51:23,694 --> 00:51:26,714
because I think what you taught your children,

838
00:51:27,254 --> 00:51:30,974
even though you're at a crossroads now and you're back

839
00:51:31,014 --> 00:51:34,554
home and the kids are learning that I have a mother here all the time,

840
00:51:35,694 --> 00:51:39,278
they also saw an amazing work ethic. Yes.

841
00:51:39,406 --> 00:51:42,914
And I think there's value to that, even though you can't tell today.

842
00:51:43,574 --> 00:51:46,774
I see it actually already. You do? I do. My

843
00:51:46,854 --> 00:51:50,234
son Vincent, he's very much like Frank

844
00:51:50,974 --> 00:51:54,750
out with. He's helping him every Saturday. He gets in his

845
00:51:54,782 --> 00:51:58,558
precision electric uniform, and so does Frankie now, too.

846
00:51:58,606 --> 00:52:02,406
And Frankie's been working, just modeling, and we're

847
00:52:02,430 --> 00:52:05,958
going to get into acting, hopefully. And he knows

848
00:52:06,006 --> 00:52:08,702
that if I do this job, I'm going to make money, and it can go

849
00:52:08,718 --> 00:52:12,518
into my savings account and I'm going to buy a car later, that's

850
00:52:12,646 --> 00:52:16,314
how he's talking about it. That's great lessons. And Francesca, she's

851
00:52:16,694 --> 00:52:20,390
so brave and strong, and I see her

852
00:52:20,422 --> 00:52:24,086
with her brothers, and, like, I. I see myself in it now. I just gotta

853
00:52:24,110 --> 00:52:27,470
be, like, not so quick to

854
00:52:27,502 --> 00:52:31,118
get angry or snappy, because I see you're getting a little bossy, like

855
00:52:31,166 --> 00:52:33,874
me, but that takes years of, like,

856
00:52:34,254 --> 00:52:38,030
learning, you know, how to finesse that and make

857
00:52:38,062 --> 00:52:41,614
it work to your advantage. But they see two parents that are working hard,

858
00:52:41,654 --> 00:52:45,324
and I don't think there's any greater lesson than that for

859
00:52:45,404 --> 00:52:49,148
particularly in today's generations that are growing up digitally

860
00:52:49,196 --> 00:52:53,036
with information at their fingertips and services at

861
00:52:53,060 --> 00:52:56,064
their fingertips that we never had, you know, and

862
00:52:56,844 --> 00:53:00,308
for them to have a work ethic, because that's what's gonna

863
00:53:00,436 --> 00:53:04,244
prevail when it's all said and done. Like, my kids are very

864
00:53:04,284 --> 00:53:07,796
hard working. They're millennials. They act like it. They're pain in the

865
00:53:07,820 --> 00:53:11,602
ass. But it's from you, and it's from your parents. Right.

866
00:53:11,738 --> 00:53:15,378
And Sandra and her parents, just like it is my

867
00:53:15,426 --> 00:53:19,242
parents and my grandparents who are still alive. My grandma's 89 and my

868
00:53:19,258 --> 00:53:22,834
grandfather's 90. And I

869
00:53:22,954 --> 00:53:26,770
saw how hard they work, and I saw how hard my parents worked

870
00:53:26,882 --> 00:53:30,586
and struggled at times in the beginning. And I

871
00:53:30,610 --> 00:53:34,274
learned at a very young age that if you wanted something, you had to work

872
00:53:34,314 --> 00:53:38,106
for it. And so with the kids now, it's hard because they are

873
00:53:38,130 --> 00:53:41,770
so. They're privileged. I mean, they have everything at their

874
00:53:41,802 --> 00:53:45,410
fingertips, and it's. I'm working on right now,

875
00:53:45,442 --> 00:53:49,050
just teaching them that, you know, it's not so

876
00:53:49,082 --> 00:53:52,698
easy for everybody. No. And you have to work hard and.

877
00:53:52,826 --> 00:53:56,254
And respect the things that you have and be grateful

878
00:53:56,594 --> 00:54:00,282
for everything that you have, you know, gratitude. Even

879
00:54:00,338 --> 00:54:03,410
better lesson. Yeah. And so

880
00:54:03,602 --> 00:54:05,614
triplets. Yes. I mean.

881
00:54:08,354 --> 00:54:10,094
That'S a whole nother story.

882
00:54:12,314 --> 00:54:15,946
That's. Yeah. It's really, really

883
00:54:16,050 --> 00:54:19,586
exciting to watch. I've been very honored to be part

884
00:54:19,610 --> 00:54:23,362
of your career. Oh, thank you. And watch. And you

885
00:54:23,378 --> 00:54:25,854
always had ideas. We're almost on an hour already.

886
00:54:26,914 --> 00:54:30,570
But you always came up with new ideas. You're the person you gotta

887
00:54:30,602 --> 00:54:34,304
call this. Person to take care of. I'm like, Julie, I got, you know. No,

888
00:54:34,424 --> 00:54:37,968
but you gotta call her. She's. Any think tanks out there,

889
00:54:38,056 --> 00:54:41,864
give me a call. I will solve that problem for

890
00:54:41,904 --> 00:54:45,672
you. There is a wine think tank called Adoni Global. It's out of

891
00:54:45,688 --> 00:54:49,168
France, in London, and they think

892
00:54:49,216 --> 00:54:52,696
tank through the industry of fine wine, wines

893
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,584
of caliber, that, you know, the history. Not the history,

894
00:54:56,624 --> 00:54:59,944
but the future of it, because consumerism has changed so

895
00:54:59,984 --> 00:55:03,682
much. And you got out at the right time. Yeah, you

896
00:55:03,698 --> 00:55:06,762
really did. And I feel. I feel extraordinarily

897
00:55:06,818 --> 00:55:10,546
fortunate to have gotten out with a deal like this.

898
00:55:10,570 --> 00:55:14,186
So. Yeah, no, it's very exciting. I'm happy for you. And,

899
00:55:14,290 --> 00:55:17,014
yeah, you're lucky that after. What was it,

900
00:55:17,794 --> 00:55:21,506
day after Christmas? The Stanley cup. Did you see all the, like, feed where

901
00:55:21,530 --> 00:55:25,314
the kids were getting Stanley cups for Christmas? It

902
00:55:25,314 --> 00:55:29,052
was like the hot gift. I would

903
00:55:29,068 --> 00:55:32,676
have been in here that Monday going, all right, we're going to put together a

904
00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:34,784
pouch that fits in the Stanley cup.

905
00:55:38,004 --> 00:55:41,580
So thank goodness, thank goodness, thank goodness.

906
00:55:41,692 --> 00:55:45,100
It's really, really great to see you. It's really great to hear the stories. And

907
00:55:45,172 --> 00:55:48,924
I think we have more to talk about. Maybe in the future as

908
00:55:49,084 --> 00:55:52,636
things settle. Down home and we have dinner together coming up

909
00:55:52,660 --> 00:55:56,396
sometime. Who knows when that is? Yes, we need to do that. And

910
00:55:56,420 --> 00:55:59,900
just thanks for coming in. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Cheers.

911
00:56:00,012 --> 00:56:00,744
Cheers.

912
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Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum, Cary. And don't forget to

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subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way.

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Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.