She Is Needed Throughout The World To Educate. Hear From Tanya Morning Star.

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I am really interested in understanding wines of origin,

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understanding what makes a wine uniquely itself. And when

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I look at the systematic approach, it helps us to understand the kind of structural

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components of wine, but it doesn't speak at all to the

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origin of wine or the meaning of the wine. And so if students think that

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that's the end way of tasting, then you're missing all the joy, all the

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enthusiasm, all the identity of a wine. Sit back

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and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with

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Paul K. Hey, welcome to Wine Talks

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with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today, beautiful Southern California, about to have

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a conversation with Tanya Morningstar, the CEO of the Cellar

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Muse. Hey, listen, I just launched a new. I'm gonna launch a

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new podcast called the Song of America. Song of America is the name of a

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book written by the famed restaurateur Monsieur George

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Mardikian in San Francisco. And it's his. The book is about his

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track to America and his success as a restaurant tour. I took

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the name, I was able to get permission from the sun,

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and I created a podcast around stories of immigration

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that turned into social, financial, or

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political success. And so the first episode is the

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Agonian Brothers Crazy stories about early

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days of racing in America, as well as immigration to the United States

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by the grandfather. So have a listen to that. Hey, give me a good review.

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If you don't like it, then don't review it at all. Right?

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And subscribe, please, but not while we're here.

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We tried this once before with Tanya Morningstar, and

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complete failure on the technical side. So we're back in studio

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together. Welcome to the show. Thank you. You know, I asked you,

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what do you call yourself? And I said, CEO, and you go, yeah, that sounds

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pretty good. So. But you are. You.

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You just got done telling me about your certification and your teaching of

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champagne to professionals and to just dovetail off of that,

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because this is an interesting part of our industry right now. Here. You

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are certified to teach certain aspects or maybe the

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entire history of champagne to professionals. What does that mean? What does

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that mean to professionals? What do you call a professional?

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Well, I guess I'm see how I'm going to answer that

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question. So essentially,

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the. The wine boards of. Of the world have,

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you know, marketing money that they want to invest in training people who

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work with their wines. And so in the case we were discussing the

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champagne specialist certification and some of the other,

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I was talking about a special sensory workshop that I developed to

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decode the winemaking process of

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champagne. And also, as I said it, to listen for the different players in

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the symphony, these are things that

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wine boards support. So, for example, they

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want us to interact with sommelier

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journalists, importers, salespeople,

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and help them to understand their wines better so that they can represent

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them better. So in those cases, sometimes

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wine boards like the Comite Champagne will sponsor and

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support curriculums that, for example, that I

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produce, like the Sensory Workshop. And then I can invite

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people in those categories or wine students

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who are pursuing higher level certifications and hopes to enter

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into the industry and offer it for, you know,

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virtually free. Now, the Champagne specialist course is a paid

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course, but the Commiteier Champagne developed it and, you know, brought me and a

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couple of other educators out there to train, to train to teach it.

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So. Well, let me ask this. This is this

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balancing act that we're in because. And I think it's.

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I think generationally, it just happens all the time. And, you know, the.

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The language of wine was different for Michael Broadbent and

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Harry Waugh than it was in my father, than it was for you and I,

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and maybe different for the future generations. Yeah, but there's this

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whole movement socially about, you know. Well,

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I don't ever believe in demystifying wine. I don't believe in the idea of

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simplifying wine because it's not simple and it's just if you want to know

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more, learn more. Right, Exactly. But so the idea of

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training professionals on the sensory perception of champagne and the, you

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know, I love this concept of picking the instruments out of the symphony. It's really

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great analogy. Does that fly in the face of

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what this generation that's coming in now thinks

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wine should be accessible to everybody and all. Whatever that. Whatever those

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things mean. Innovation, Whatever that means in the

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wine trade. Is it? Yeah, I don't think those things are

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incongruent at all. In fact, it's

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really, really important to me to teach

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what you were saying about making things

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specific and accessible and not oversimplifying to me, I

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like kind of to equate it to falling in love.

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Specializing your previous knowledge

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may or may not be useful. Yeah. Right. You really need to show

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up with is your curiosity

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and your willingness to. Your openness to

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discovering about that subject. Right. And

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through doing that, I always say you can specialize before you generalize if you

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are willing to be deeply curious and engage your. Your

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love. So I do feel

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that teaching complex subjects is not

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exclusionary. And the way that I do it, I think I have

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kind of a special approach to. That seems

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to be working and makes people feel really welcome. And so

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even when I'm teaching courses

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that are designed for high level

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speciality or designed really to teach

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people who are already in the wine trade, of course there are a lot of

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enthusiasts that end up in those spaces

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and I think that it's, and I have a

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way of welcoming them also. I really, really feel

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that it's important to me that everybody

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feels ready to show up as they are. And that means even when

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we're talking about complex subjects like champagne,

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the more that we can not oversimplify but

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demystify and come together, the more

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people can bring their authentic selves into that moment. And when

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that's invited, I think that everybody really

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benefits and people don't feel like they can approach

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really complex subjects. So to me, I don't really teach

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beginners, but as long as you've got kind of a

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basic understanding of, of Vinny Vidi as we call

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it, you know, winemaking and analogy on a, on a

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base level that allows you to enter into a certain subject,

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we can fly pretty high together. The consumer side of

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this, I mean, isn't this the allure of what wine is? And I,

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and I'm trying to get this, you know, my position on this, which is yes,

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wine is consumer oriented, we need consumers. But

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the allure of wine, the study of wine,

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the character of wine, the reason we, you know,

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crave a particular type of wine at dinner time is in

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itself the complexity and the story and, and

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that automatically leads you, if you're interested, to learn more

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about soil if you want, or trellising or the things that go

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into changing the, the expression of a wine. So

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I, I'm just having a hard time with what the general

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public perception of what wine is and where it needs to

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go versus the actuality of it, which hasn't changed

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for 12,000 years. It is still the same product. Right? I mean,

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hopefully those days, but it's so on the

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consumer side, how do you, what's, how are you received with

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this kind of teaching when you do this? Well, I

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think great. I mean to. One of the things is, you know, I've been in

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the industry for a lot of years and last time we did this we introduced

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me a little bit more but. And mentioned that I'm also a historian

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and taught wine history at college level for a decade and

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also have an online wine history that I course that I created that

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people can come to and find out about, just to

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mention that. But as far as consumers in the

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classroom, all that to say that over the last

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30 years, I have seen such a wonderful transformation in

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our industry from gatekeeping of knowledge on the

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part of, you know, snooty psalms to

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a world where consumers are savvy and self directed

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and professionals are expected to be trusted

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advisors and guides, as opposed to

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some kind of gods that have some information or some way of

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accessing the pleasure of wine that nobody else can touch. And

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I love that it expects more professionals because

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consumers are more

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deeply interested. And that also coincides with the rise of

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Eno tourism and this desire

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for people to have more intimate experiences with

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wine, which I love. So I hope

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that kind of answers your question, that I think that

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the enthusiast is. Oh, is. Has a really

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different place in the world than they had before. I think that

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serious enthusiasts 30 years ago that were learning about wine were

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usually wealthy people who had deep cellars

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and were more part of this

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elite access to wine. And I love that

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that's really, really changing. It's an important part of my work. You know, it's an

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interesting thought. You know, it's. It is. I suppose

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my dad got into. He was business, I mean, then he fell in love with

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it once, you know, he's a pharmacist by trade, counting pills, and all of a

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sudden there's a liquor store became part of his. His chain,

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a small chain he had. And wow, this was really fun. People. People

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aren't sick when they come in and complain. They come in and they go, hey,

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I'm looking for, you know, something really fun to do. Yeah. And so he

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started spending more time over there and he fell in love with the product and

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was quite knowledgeable and traveled the world and went to his classes.

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But I suppose you're right. I suppose we're

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casting a larger net to have people be

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interested in the product. And I have this romantic view that

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all generations come around at some point to have

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a curiosity about what it is, but it still doesn't answer the question, you

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know, is it simplifiable? And I don't. I don't

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believe that it is. But how much. How

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important is the story? You know, you talk about history and I had a conversation,

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you know, Chad Luddington, you know who he is? He's a.

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I think he's a master of wine. Maybe he's not. But anyway, he. I had

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a conversation yesterday and he was correcting himself, one of these historians, where

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he says, you know, in 1375. No, I'm sorry, 1350, you know,

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and I'm like, wow, I don't know. Sure. That I'm that granular with my wine

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history. I wonder if that sort of intimidates people

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into the subject versus just trying to learn why, you

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know, they, they relate to one glass rather than

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another. I think that this is an interesting

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subject to kind of weave into what we were talking about before,

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what people, the state of our industry, what,

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how our enthusiasm as professionals or consumers

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or wherever we're at in that continuum, why, why the story

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matters now maybe more than ever. And

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I was thinking as you were talking about how the rise

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of this savvy, curious, loving, if you

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will, consumer, right? If we're talking about curiosity being about

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love, coincides with, of course,

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our deepening access to information,

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right? The great equalizer of the Internet, you know, and, and

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technology. But also one of the things that that

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access has brought us as humans is a

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fracturization of our mentality, right? We're a million

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places at once. We're expected to be tracking all kinds

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of information and events that are happening in faraway

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places. And I just don't think that our nervous systems

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as a species are developing fast enough to take

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all of this. So we're anxious, we're all exhibiting

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tension issues. And this

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good thought. And so the wine, curiosity,

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wine is a hobby, can heal this mentality

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because it's a whole body experience. When we are

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engaging in the study of wine and the exploration of wine,

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we're using everything about ourselves. We're using our physicality, all of our

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senses, our front and back of our brain, right?

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The primitive memory part that's associating with, with our sense of smell

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and taste, our analytical aspect, our,

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you know, our social personalities, where it's

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really healthy behavior and it drops people

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into one place and time. And

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I think it's, I think this is why more

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people, young, young people are interested in this

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specificity. I think they're drinking less,

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they're engaging differently. And I think

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that this, that the story connects

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to this ability for us to be present

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with other people. And in a global world, that means

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other people in a vineyard on the other side of the world, maybe that we'll

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never meet, but we're still in one place, in one time, one

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terroir that made that wine, one culture, one person, one or a

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team of people. And here we are choosing it in our

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classroom or at our table to share with real

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people that are in front of us. And that to me is really great.

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And this kind of

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enthusiasm has a

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reciprocal effect because we are in conversation with the people

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and traditions who make wine Whether we ever talk to

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them simply by putting that wine into our

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bodies. That the smaller

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producers, the smaller appellations have never been

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such an exciting time to love wine. Because when people are interested in

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those stories and purchase

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those lesser known wines or appellations,

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the people who make them have financial incentive to

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elaborate better the truth of how to make the

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best wine in that place. And so I think there's a lot more out there

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to discover. For example, I'm, you know, one of my

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expertises is in Bourgogne wines. A subject that cannot be simplified. That,

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you know, that is endless. Right. And,

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and I really believe that you do not have to be a wealthy collector to

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love Bourgogne wines and to engage

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in the value system of terroir that, that

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Bourgogne wines has to offer, which is one place,

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one time, one, you know, the

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name of the vineyard, the Klima is the name of the wine. Right.

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That place. And so I think, you know, ranging

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from if you're in the Macon, you know, for

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example, you can have that experience of understanding that specificity

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for 25 bucks. You know, that's true. And,

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and some of those wines are now getting good enough so that they're, you can

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put them away for a little while and so that people who are not

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wildly wealthy can start to sell their things for a few years and

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see how they become more interesting.

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So that's. Stop it there for a second. That's a really good point.

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Particularly since the, the evolution of Bon wines,

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particularly entry level. And I think most of the consumers

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that go to the supermarket, you know, the entry level begonia wines that are, there

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00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,888
are just not very good representations of what they could be at a price that's

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very palatable. I know we're talking about growing crew vineyards. You know, you can get,

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so you can get a nice burn rouge if you go to the right maker.

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But that's. Let me, let me back that up a little bit. Yeah, I

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think, was it Paul Meyer who tried to buy a

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property there and, and got this 12th century

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rule thrown at him and fell out of escrow. But his comment was basically

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all Enophi. Wine and collectors end up in Burgundy because

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of this complexity and this idea of terroir is so specific and

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important. Yeah, but I'm going to go back to the consumer for a

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second. You said something really interesting. The enthusiasm,

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particularly from an educator like you, who gets in front of a,

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a, a group and lights up. And whether it's a consumer group or

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a professional group, you can elude this. And I had

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to, I had to say something. There's. I think I mentioned before we

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started that I'm back on the little league field as the old guy, the

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grandpa, and I'm working with 7 year olds.

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And it hit me that the reason I'm successful there,

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and I say that tongue in cheek is because I am enthusiastic about

286
00:17:32,146 --> 00:17:35,882
it. I do love it. And why I would go out on

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my Saturday afternoon as a 66 year old on Tuesday night and

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Saturday afternoon and play baseball with a bunch of 7 year olds that have a

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hard time even understanding the game. And what they

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respond to is the enthusiasm I have because

291
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it's such a great game and I have so much fun playing it and

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teaching it. And I think that's really important on your

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side to stimulate, you know, the intellectual thought process

294
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of, of learning about wine. Because it is exciting. You

295
00:18:05,326 --> 00:18:08,870
can be. Or it can be completely droll and blah.

296
00:18:09,030 --> 00:18:12,580
Not the French word droll meaning funny. But yeah, the,

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00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,872
the English version. Yeah. How do you do that? How are

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you instilling this enthusiasm is just passion,

299
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natural. Well, I love the

300
00:18:24,576 --> 00:18:27,260
word enthusiasm. It's a, it's a beautiful word.

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And I think that first of all, being

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accessible myself is important. I,

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I want to say, for example, I, I do a lot of mentorship. I love

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to mentor people in their wine path, professional and

305
00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:45,932
personal, to enjoying more and finding what their way towards

306
00:18:45,996 --> 00:18:49,580
their, their goals with wine. And I had a student who

307
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went through the WSET diploma with me and

308
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they were starting to teach and they were feeling nervous about showing up in a

309
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classroom having really smart people ask really hard questions that they might not know the

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answer to. And I said, listen, you know very well that none

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of us know the answers to every question. And so every

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teacher at the beginning goes through this anxiety that they're not going to be able

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to perform perfectly like you were saying, you know, get the exact right

314
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dates. And I said, when you don't know something in front

315
00:19:18,956 --> 00:19:22,804
of a classroom, it's this wonderful opportunity to make everybody else

316
00:19:22,852 --> 00:19:26,628
realize that you're human, that they're smart. Because

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in the room maybe somebody knows the answer or maybe collectively you can

318
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discover it. And so actually showing

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ourselves as, as real as

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00:19:38,046 --> 00:19:41,766
teachers and engaging in the, in, in the value

321
00:19:41,838 --> 00:19:45,462
of our students I think really brings people out

322
00:19:45,486 --> 00:19:48,726
of a lot of the anxiety that historically is centered around

323
00:19:48,878 --> 00:19:52,502
wine, around wine generally, you know, that we're some. The

324
00:19:52,526 --> 00:19:55,654
person next to us knows more than us and is a better taster and all

325
00:19:55,662 --> 00:19:59,044
of this kind of B.S. you know, instead of

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kind of being open, curious and sharing our flaws and

327
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,980
our, and our joyous, you know, discoveries.

328
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,060
So I think that's really a part of it is seeing,

329
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is seeing myself as, as imperfect as an opportunity

330
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and always. Wine in a wine classroom

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00:20:18,184 --> 00:20:21,768
is full of really smart people. You know, there are people,

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00:20:21,904 --> 00:20:25,736
my students have PhDs. They have, you know, diverse educations

333
00:20:25,768 --> 00:20:29,222
in a multitude of subjects. They bring so much to the

334
00:20:29,246 --> 00:20:33,062
exploration of the sub. Of the subject that we're on hand. Even if

335
00:20:33,086 --> 00:20:36,838
I am the expert, I learned so much from them. So

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I think that attitude is really, really key

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to making people feel welcome and bringing people into their

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best exploration of a subject together. I think you're

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right. I think that does break down the barriers that you have a

340
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personal concern with their path to, to understand this and

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00:20:55,496 --> 00:20:59,040
that, that, that tends to loosen up the

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environment a little bit. And you're, I think this, I hate to say it,

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00:21:02,936 --> 00:21:06,592
I mean it works with 7 year olds and why wouldn't it work with adults?

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You just, you have a true compassion for their, for

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their outlook and their concern of what they're doing. How important do you think

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00:21:13,912 --> 00:21:16,704
that is? You said something interesting. You said about, you know, the tasting and you

347
00:21:16,712 --> 00:21:19,792
know, there's some people that can sit in front of a row of wines, all

348
00:21:19,816 --> 00:21:23,308
cabernets from the same vintage, and talk about the, the,

349
00:21:23,444 --> 00:21:25,920
the appellation. Possibly,

350
00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:30,412
I, I possibly could do that. I mean I

351
00:21:30,436 --> 00:21:33,852
tasted a lot of wines, 100, 000 wines in my career. And I, but I

352
00:21:33,876 --> 00:21:37,548
have certain, you know, my outlook leading to this question.

353
00:21:37,604 --> 00:21:41,436
My outlook when I tasted those wines wasn't to do that. Yeah, I didn't

354
00:21:41,468 --> 00:21:45,308
blind taste. I sat there every Tuesday from 9 to 2 and tasted wines.

355
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But my job was to find the best value. So my

356
00:21:49,236 --> 00:21:52,880
skill set in this industry is tasting a wine and

357
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,352
being able to position it from a price standpoint where it

358
00:21:56,376 --> 00:22:00,096
belongs, not, not necessarily where it's being sold at, but

359
00:22:00,168 --> 00:22:03,984
you know, where it would belong based on price, value, quality. Yes.

360
00:22:04,032 --> 00:22:06,912
I can dissect the wine. I can tell you about the structure. I can do

361
00:22:06,936 --> 00:22:10,720
all those things, but not everybody, not everybody can do that. Yeah, but

362
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,416
many people can blind taste much better than I can. And I'm

363
00:22:14,448 --> 00:22:18,210
wondering where you think your skill set is in this

364
00:22:18,250 --> 00:22:22,002
industry of education and then how important do you think it really is to be

365
00:22:22,026 --> 00:22:25,522
able to say, well, I sense raspberries and blackberries and

366
00:22:25,546 --> 00:22:28,830
cocoa and you know, all those things and, and confuse people. Like,

367
00:22:30,490 --> 00:22:33,730
I love this question. And I think about it a lot, in

368
00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:37,570
fact, because I have a kind of. I have

369
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:41,298
my own way of teaching tasting. I've taught

370
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all W set levels and also, you

371
00:22:45,116 --> 00:22:48,740
know, practice both systematic and deductive approaches and.

372
00:22:48,860 --> 00:22:52,324
And everything else. So I. I have had to teach lots of different tasting

373
00:22:52,372 --> 00:22:56,212
rationales in my experience as an educator. But

374
00:22:56,236 --> 00:23:00,052
I found myself a few years back realizing that I

375
00:23:00,076 --> 00:23:03,780
had allowed the propaganda to

376
00:23:03,820 --> 00:23:07,604
enter my head that from the movie Psalm,

377
00:23:07,652 --> 00:23:11,288
for example, you know, that these mostly guys are these

378
00:23:11,344 --> 00:23:15,192
gods with special skills that none of us have, including me, you

379
00:23:15,216 --> 00:23:19,032
know, and it's like. And that was. So I

380
00:23:19,056 --> 00:23:22,488
guess I want to kind of. I joined a group of.

381
00:23:22,624 --> 00:23:25,780
Of a tasting group of

382
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,400
Psalm, deductive approach. And first of all, I

383
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,100
realized that there was.

384
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,822
How do I want to say this? I

385
00:23:36,846 --> 00:23:40,310
was so curious at this stage of my life how I still had something in

386
00:23:40,350 --> 00:23:44,182
my mind telling me that I couldn't do that. And it's really just, you

387
00:23:44,206 --> 00:23:48,038
know, it's not a trick, in fact, and I'm

388
00:23:48,054 --> 00:23:51,430
going to explain that. I don't want to get off too off track

389
00:23:51,470 --> 00:23:55,318
here. For me, I am really interested in

390
00:23:55,374 --> 00:23:58,710
understanding wines of origin, understanding what makes a wine

391
00:23:58,790 --> 00:24:02,294
uniquely itself. And so when I'm thinking about tasting

392
00:24:02,342 --> 00:24:05,852
rationales, that is what I am curious about, which is why I do teach

393
00:24:05,966 --> 00:24:09,808
tasting a little bit differently. And when I look at the systematic approach, the W

394
00:24:09,864 --> 00:24:13,472
said approach, for example, it helps us to understand the kind of

395
00:24:13,496 --> 00:24:17,232
structural components of wine, but it doesn't speak at all

396
00:24:17,336 --> 00:24:21,056
to the origin of wine or the meaning of the wine. And so if students

397
00:24:21,128 --> 00:24:24,592
think that that's the end way of tasting, then you're missing all the joy, all

398
00:24:24,616 --> 00:24:28,432
the enthusiasm, all the identity of a wine. All. Many of the

399
00:24:28,456 --> 00:24:32,016
greatest wines in the world, for example, are medium, medium

400
00:24:32,048 --> 00:24:35,730
plus, medium, medium plus. If you go to Bourgogne, all the greatest wines of

401
00:24:35,850 --> 00:24:39,522
Bourgogne, they're going to be medium, medium plus all along the line. How

402
00:24:39,546 --> 00:24:43,154
interesting is that? Not. Does it point to anything

403
00:24:43,202 --> 00:24:46,690
meaningful? No. Right. And so that

404
00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:50,466
is a stepping stone. Being able to understand the structural

405
00:24:50,498 --> 00:24:53,730
components of wine to being able to understand wine. They're not the same

406
00:24:53,770 --> 00:24:57,554
thing. And the deductive approach or the Psalm approach

407
00:24:57,722 --> 00:25:01,516
ends up looking a little mysterious, but it essentially

408
00:25:01,548 --> 00:25:05,372
gets a little bit more towards identity, but in a very technical kind of

409
00:25:05,396 --> 00:25:09,068
way that if you learn how to execute it and you

410
00:25:09,124 --> 00:25:12,924
also understand wines of origin,

411
00:25:13,052 --> 00:25:16,860
you can actually blind taste. And it's not that

412
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:20,300
hard, in fact. And I

413
00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:24,076
loved exploring, demystifying that process

414
00:25:24,148 --> 00:25:27,934
as well. And then in the end, what I'm Interested in is

415
00:25:28,092 --> 00:25:31,466
transparently tasting for origin. So that means really

416
00:25:31,538 --> 00:25:35,162
understanding what the impacts of the different,

417
00:25:35,266 --> 00:25:39,082
of the various aspects of terroir are on the

418
00:25:39,106 --> 00:25:42,122
sensory experience. So, for example,

419
00:25:42,186 --> 00:25:45,962
elevation, soil type, climate, proximity to

420
00:25:45,986 --> 00:25:49,770
bodies of water, wind, you know, all of these things. And then how

421
00:25:49,810 --> 00:25:53,546
people respond to those environmental issues are essentially

422
00:25:53,578 --> 00:25:57,046
what terroir is. And so if we're really

423
00:25:57,118 --> 00:26:00,614
exploring one place, right, this is how I say specialized

424
00:26:00,662 --> 00:26:04,210
education is about, you know, is about intimacy, right?

425
00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:07,490
You're looking at one place, one

426
00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:11,606
wine, right, and understanding all of these elements and then

427
00:26:11,678 --> 00:26:15,526
translating them to the actual sensory experience so that people can

428
00:26:15,678 --> 00:26:19,462
start to taste and be like, oh, the quality of the

429
00:26:19,486 --> 00:26:23,192
acidity is like this. And I understand, you know, I know exactly where

430
00:26:23,216 --> 00:26:26,744
I am. That's probably not an easy thing for people to

431
00:26:26,912 --> 00:26:30,456
grasp onto originally. So I don't think that this is actually

432
00:26:30,528 --> 00:26:34,152
hard, you know, and that's. And I. And so there's a way that I like

433
00:26:34,176 --> 00:26:37,848
to approach this kind of

434
00:26:37,904 --> 00:26:41,288
teaching that is really

435
00:26:41,424 --> 00:26:45,128
about. About understanding the place

436
00:26:45,184 --> 00:26:48,966
itself. And I think once you just, you can go through that

437
00:26:49,038 --> 00:26:52,838
exploration, people start. It starts to make sense.

438
00:26:52,934 --> 00:26:56,182
If you, if you have a holistic picture in your teaching, instead of

439
00:26:56,206 --> 00:26:59,702
didactically going through, you know, some kind of

440
00:26:59,806 --> 00:27:02,870
linear or abstracted or

441
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:06,694
separated, you know, exploration of the elements of

442
00:27:06,702 --> 00:27:09,638
what make a wine itself. If you look at it as a whole picture, people

443
00:27:09,694 --> 00:27:13,408
can engage with it, imagine it, and then the.

444
00:27:13,464 --> 00:27:16,080
And then it makes sense why wine tastes the way it is. Which is why

445
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:17,900
I love to teach through.

446
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,700
Through immersion. So I do lead

447
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,960
immersive educational experiences in France,

448
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,736
Italy and California. I've got one coming up in Sonoma. I'll

449
00:27:30,768 --> 00:27:34,144
be doing one in Champagne in May, Borgonia in

450
00:27:34,152 --> 00:27:37,552
September, around Lake Garda, also in

451
00:27:37,576 --> 00:27:41,418
October. And when I do that, it's not just

452
00:27:41,474 --> 00:27:45,274
taking people touring. I curate highly. The

453
00:27:45,362 --> 00:27:49,178
wineries we go to are not necessarily the most prestigious, but they are.

454
00:27:49,314 --> 00:27:53,162
Sometimes they are. Sometimes they're places that aren't open to the public that'll receive

455
00:27:53,226 --> 00:27:56,890
me and have that access. Definitely want to provide

456
00:27:56,930 --> 00:28:00,310
people with access, but curate the most

457
00:28:01,250 --> 00:28:05,034
complete learning experience of that place. Why

458
00:28:05,042 --> 00:28:08,810
do they come to you over all the millions of. Let's jump on that

459
00:28:08,850 --> 00:28:12,374
concept of vino tray Euro. Would you call

460
00:28:12,382 --> 00:28:15,862
it travel or travel? Because,

461
00:28:16,046 --> 00:28:19,830
and I'm going to say it with this premise, I do believe, and I,

462
00:28:19,870 --> 00:28:23,430
and I think has always been this way. It's just now becoming more obvious and

463
00:28:23,470 --> 00:28:27,290
more important that experiential changes,

464
00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:31,190
experiential episodes are what drive

465
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:35,014
wine and what Keep people loyal to a brand. You

466
00:28:35,022 --> 00:28:38,546
know, they're. They're, they're going to reflect every time they see this.

467
00:28:38,718 --> 00:28:42,378
And, you know, things are happening in France in particular, where. Where

468
00:28:42,434 --> 00:28:46,282
wine tourism is becoming actually a thing. It never was. You couldn't go to

469
00:28:46,306 --> 00:28:50,058
a tasting room in Bordeaux until recently. Really? Yeah. And so

470
00:28:50,194 --> 00:28:53,514
why do they choose Tanya Morningstar's

471
00:28:53,562 --> 00:28:57,274
program over, you know, what was the name of the

472
00:28:57,442 --> 00:29:01,178
famous travel company in the 70s English group?

473
00:29:01,234 --> 00:29:04,710
Anyway? Why. Why do they do that? Well, I think that

474
00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:09,132
there's a lot of reasons. First of all, I only lead tours in places where

475
00:29:09,156 --> 00:29:12,956
I have really special access, so where I have deep

476
00:29:12,988 --> 00:29:16,604
relationships with the people who are culture

477
00:29:16,652 --> 00:29:20,124
makers and. Or preserving cultural

478
00:29:20,172 --> 00:29:23,836
heritage through their work. And I'm able to get those people

479
00:29:23,908 --> 00:29:26,988
to meet with us. For example, in Borgonia,

480
00:29:27,164 --> 00:29:30,524
we visit, you know, some places that don't receive

481
00:29:30,572 --> 00:29:33,942
guests. And in Champagne, that's also going to be the

482
00:29:33,966 --> 00:29:37,734
case that some places that don't receive

483
00:29:37,782 --> 00:29:41,222
guests will receive my students enthusiastically and give us a lot of time with the

484
00:29:41,246 --> 00:29:43,330
cellar master or the family.

485
00:29:44,750 --> 00:29:48,422
And, oh, in Borgonia, for example, the map maker Sylvan Pizzio had

486
00:29:48,446 --> 00:29:52,262
lunch with us, you know, and the president of the.

487
00:29:52,446 --> 00:29:55,910
Of the, you know, partnership with UNESCO for the preservation of the

488
00:29:55,950 --> 00:29:59,580
Klima, you know, invited us to his winery in

489
00:29:59,620 --> 00:30:03,340
Maurice St. Denis, and we tasted all the Klima. I like

490
00:30:03,380 --> 00:30:07,052
to do things. We went to La Flevre and met with

491
00:30:07,076 --> 00:30:10,652
Olivier and tasted all the wines. And then I filled my

492
00:30:10,676 --> 00:30:14,092
backpack with single Klima wines, and everyone took their glasses, and we

493
00:30:14,116 --> 00:30:17,836
walked from Pluni Morochet through

494
00:30:17,908 --> 00:30:21,564
Meursault, stopping in the Klima and tasting the wine.

495
00:30:21,692 --> 00:30:25,536
And then you really understand. You know, you've met the winemaker,

496
00:30:25,568 --> 00:30:28,816
you've seen the winery, but then we're walking through the vineyards,

497
00:30:29,008 --> 00:30:32,752
touching the soil, looking at the slope, tasting this one,

498
00:30:32,936 --> 00:30:36,720
understanding it, then moving on to the next. We know why they're different. And so.

499
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,840
Let me stop you there. How do. How do. I mean, this is a very

500
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,584
extraordinary trip. I mean, you're probably half of the words

501
00:30:43,632 --> 00:30:47,440
not understood by most people. So how

502
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,998
do we get this to. To the consumer who's

503
00:30:51,094 --> 00:30:54,902
at home, you know, only sees that the

504
00:30:54,926 --> 00:30:58,774
supermarket, the entry level, Burgones, or Vuv Clicot

505
00:30:58,822 --> 00:31:02,646
for that matter. I gotta tell you my story. He. You obviously speak

506
00:31:02,678 --> 00:31:06,454
French to some extent, so there's a. I'm not gonna say who it

507
00:31:06,462 --> 00:31:09,750
is, but somebody named their spa in

508
00:31:09,790 --> 00:31:12,490
Napa Rendezvous

509
00:31:12,990 --> 00:31:16,820
Rendezvous. And I'm like, why would you do

510
00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:20,388
that? Since vuv means widow. Yeah. Yeah,

511
00:31:20,564 --> 00:31:24,388
that's funny. Anyway, so, yeah, I do speak French and

512
00:31:24,444 --> 00:31:28,132
Italian, and I think that's one of the things is that I don't take

513
00:31:28,156 --> 00:31:32,004
people places where I don't have intimate relationships

514
00:31:32,052 --> 00:31:35,732
with that I can share. Because all the people who travel with me, they

515
00:31:35,756 --> 00:31:39,220
are savvy travelers, they're super smart, they can organize their own trips, and they

516
00:31:39,260 --> 00:31:42,798
do, but this is different. Right. And so then your next

517
00:31:42,854 --> 00:31:46,270
question, how do we get that to the consumer. Make people feel

518
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:50,062
that energy that you have, but they can't jump on

519
00:31:50,086 --> 00:31:53,742
a plane and go to Bourgogne or Champagne? Yeah, not everybody. I do have

520
00:31:53,766 --> 00:31:57,550
some projects. They're a little top secret, but I have a

521
00:31:57,590 --> 00:32:01,006
project to address this home experience for

522
00:32:01,078 --> 00:32:04,222
enthusiasts that can't get on a plane. But you'll have to wait for that and

523
00:32:04,246 --> 00:32:07,742
follow me. But I do think that teaching in the

524
00:32:07,766 --> 00:32:11,362
classroom, the way that I like to teach, almost gives people a

525
00:32:11,386 --> 00:32:14,390
relief, as if they've taken a little adventure

526
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:17,874
and in the way that I teach

527
00:32:17,922 --> 00:32:21,234
holistically. But I think that

528
00:32:21,402 --> 00:32:24,994
this experience, a lot of people don't need. They don't

529
00:32:25,042 --> 00:32:28,690
want necessarily to know all of these things. And

530
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:32,130
so when you have. When you have

531
00:32:32,170 --> 00:32:34,950
professionals who have had these experiences,

532
00:32:35,610 --> 00:32:39,004
they're the ones who. Who share that next, next

533
00:32:39,092 --> 00:32:42,876
step. There are enthusiasts who do want to take these trips, who are.

534
00:32:42,948 --> 00:32:46,480
Who want to deeply understand the landscape and the culture

535
00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:50,440
and how those things are and history and how they're tied in together.

536
00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:54,572
But not everybody can afford

537
00:32:54,636 --> 00:32:57,900
that or is ready for that. They may want to have that glass of wine

538
00:32:57,980 --> 00:33:01,356
and they want to understand something about it that brings them into the present moment,

539
00:33:01,388 --> 00:33:04,902
but they don't need everything. And so that's why

540
00:33:04,926 --> 00:33:08,630
training professionals, or sometimes guiding journalists or

541
00:33:08,670 --> 00:33:11,814
writers, which is another thing that I do, is so important

542
00:33:11,902 --> 00:33:14,966
because. Because then we bring home

543
00:33:15,118 --> 00:33:18,950
that. That whole experience, that

544
00:33:18,990 --> 00:33:22,822
deep understanding, that intimacy, and we can share it easily

545
00:33:22,966 --> 00:33:26,694
with a person. Even if we have an exchange of just a couple

546
00:33:26,742 --> 00:33:30,214
sentences, when that wine gets put into their hand, those are the appropriate

547
00:33:30,262 --> 00:33:34,110
sentences that spread spark that person's imagination so that they enjoy more.

548
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:39,138
So there's a lot of levels of what we want to know, what we need

549
00:33:39,194 --> 00:33:42,390
to know to enjoy wine most fully.

550
00:33:43,530 --> 00:33:47,202
And I think there's a couple different kinds of wine. There's engineered

551
00:33:47,266 --> 00:33:50,830
wines that are delicious but don't tell a story of place

552
00:33:51,210 --> 00:33:54,562
and then which. That's fine. I don't. Not very interested in

553
00:33:54,586 --> 00:33:58,282
those myself. But formula wines, we call them. Yeah, but

554
00:33:58,306 --> 00:34:02,026
they could be delicious. You know, and. And then there's

555
00:34:02,058 --> 00:34:05,818
wines of origin. And with wines of origin,

556
00:34:05,994 --> 00:34:09,786
something about that connection is important, but it doesn't

557
00:34:09,818 --> 00:34:13,642
have. Nobody wants the Psalm who's like, telling you the

558
00:34:13,666 --> 00:34:17,514
whole story, and you're like, okay, okay. I really didn't need to, you know, I

559
00:34:17,522 --> 00:34:21,274
don't need to know all those things. But sometimes just giving a

560
00:34:21,282 --> 00:34:25,000
little bit of truth and bringing people

561
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,664
into the specific moment is all that's required. Yesterday, I had a call

562
00:34:28,752 --> 00:34:32,500
with a doctor's group.

563
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,776
You're probably aware of some of these. You know, the concierge medicine

564
00:34:36,808 --> 00:34:39,592
is becoming very popular, and this is sort of a holistic thing. And I really

565
00:34:39,616 --> 00:34:43,060
wanted to hear about it because I take that very seriously. Yeah. And

566
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,192
when he saw the studio here in the background, first he says,

567
00:34:47,216 --> 00:34:49,944
I'm. I used to be a sound engineer, so he was really interested in what

568
00:34:49,952 --> 00:34:53,771
I was doing. And second, he says, you're in

569
00:34:53,795 --> 00:34:57,531
wine. He goes, I have this. And I found this

570
00:34:57,555 --> 00:35:00,731
very refreshing, and I don't hear it very often. And I have to tell my

571
00:35:00,755 --> 00:35:03,643
friends when we go to dinner, because we like to bring our own bottles, as

572
00:35:03,651 --> 00:35:06,699
you probably do. But I tell them, if we're going to go to Italian restaurant,

573
00:35:06,779 --> 00:35:10,523
don't. Do not bring, you know, duckhorn or silver oak or whatever,

574
00:35:10,571 --> 00:35:14,411
you know, basic Napa stuff. I said, we need to bring the wines of the

575
00:35:14,435 --> 00:35:18,206
origin of the. Of the food, and let's start sort of understanding

576
00:35:18,238 --> 00:35:21,934
that. And so this guy voluntarily said, look, I go to a restaurant, and if

577
00:35:21,942 --> 00:35:25,422
I'm in an Italian place, I ask for the list and I want

578
00:35:25,526 --> 00:35:28,750
the Psalms recommendation for the food that we're eating from

579
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:32,510
Italy. Yeah. And, you know, and then. Then he quoted,

580
00:35:32,670 --> 00:35:36,414
what, you know, grows together, goes together. And I think that's a. That was

581
00:35:36,422 --> 00:35:40,030
such a refreshing start of a conversation for somebody that

582
00:35:40,070 --> 00:35:43,772
actually is seeking. And the point I was

583
00:35:43,796 --> 00:35:47,516
going to make was I thought by the time we had done

584
00:35:47,588 --> 00:35:51,132
chatting about his last experience at the Italian restaurant, that he had been to

585
00:35:51,156 --> 00:35:54,700
Barolo, he was talking about it as if, you know, he was

586
00:35:54,740 --> 00:35:58,476
walking the vineyards of the famed hill, you know,

587
00:35:58,548 --> 00:36:02,284
And I'm like, well, I was just there and blah, blah, blah. He goes, no,

588
00:36:02,292 --> 00:36:06,028
I've never been. And so his. His experience, his

589
00:36:06,084 --> 00:36:09,628
knowledge of Barolo had strictly come from eating at Italian

590
00:36:09,644 --> 00:36:13,012
restaurants, talking to the Somme, and drinking the wines of the region. And I go,

591
00:36:13,036 --> 00:36:16,868
wow, that's really powerful way to do it and not

592
00:36:16,924 --> 00:36:20,596
have to leave. You could do it at home, too, as well. But if you're

593
00:36:20,628 --> 00:36:24,292
disciplined enough to think that way. It's such a

594
00:36:24,316 --> 00:36:28,164
relief. It's why sometimes my. I remember one day I

595
00:36:28,172 --> 00:36:31,860
was studying, and my. My kids came into the. My.

596
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:34,772
When my son came into the room, and he was like, why are you so

597
00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:38,220
happy? And I was like, I've just been, like, spent two

598
00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:42,040
hours in Provence in my mind, you know,

599
00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:45,640
and that makes me really happy, you know.

600
00:36:46,020 --> 00:36:49,612
So I think that, yes, we're talking about engaging our imagination,

601
00:36:49,756 --> 00:36:53,404
you know, through multisensory modalities. And that

602
00:36:53,492 --> 00:36:56,940
can be through tasting, reading, looking at maps,

603
00:36:57,020 --> 00:37:00,844
watching, you know, films or drone

604
00:37:00,892 --> 00:37:03,998
footage, which is incredible. Some regions have great drone footage.

605
00:37:04,164 --> 00:37:07,930
But I think that you said something that

606
00:37:07,970 --> 00:37:11,642
I wanted to pick up on, which was about your

607
00:37:11,666 --> 00:37:15,498
friend and what goes together, grows together. And although

608
00:37:15,594 --> 00:37:19,030
I think there's two ways to kind of approach that. One of the

609
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:23,242
one way is to say another thing that I

610
00:37:23,266 --> 00:37:26,746
love. For example, thinking about champagne and how champagne is

611
00:37:26,818 --> 00:37:30,336
consumed all over the world, how it's important to all of us, right?

612
00:37:30,458 --> 00:37:34,212
For our best moments, we want to have champagne, even

613
00:37:34,236 --> 00:37:36,560
when there's other delicious wines that we could have

614
00:37:37,580 --> 00:37:41,300
that opening up to all of the cuisines that

615
00:37:41,340 --> 00:37:44,080
champagne can serve and all of the

616
00:37:44,780 --> 00:37:48,180
cultural sensory perspectives that the tasters and drinkers

617
00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:52,084
have. Cultural, sensory, right. And

618
00:37:52,092 --> 00:37:55,316
this brings us back to the idea of language and how we talk about wine.

619
00:37:55,428 --> 00:37:59,218
Because if we're going from a systematic or deductive or this

620
00:37:59,274 --> 00:38:02,658
formulaic tasting approach usually

621
00:38:02,754 --> 00:38:04,430
designed by British people,

622
00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:09,698
then it excludes huge, everybody else in the world

623
00:38:09,754 --> 00:38:13,234
with all their different smell, taste, and cultural

624
00:38:13,282 --> 00:38:17,106
experiences, right? So I love this idea

625
00:38:17,138 --> 00:38:20,594
of opening up wine to be an international

626
00:38:20,762 --> 00:38:24,100
ambassador of love and peace,

627
00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:27,988
essentially, you know, in a way, because we're sharing something with people from another

628
00:38:28,044 --> 00:38:31,428
part of the world. And then the other thing is to, you know, if you're

629
00:38:31,444 --> 00:38:35,140
thinking, what goes together, grows together. So thinking outside the box and welcoming other

630
00:38:35,180 --> 00:38:38,980
cultures into your sensory experience, right into that in a partnership is

631
00:38:39,020 --> 00:38:42,820
one thing. And then what goes together, grows together, falls into something that

632
00:38:42,860 --> 00:38:46,580
is really kind of my ballywick, which is what I was thinking about,

633
00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:49,972
you know, do you want to be called CEO? And essentially, I want to be

634
00:38:49,996 --> 00:38:52,440
called a preserver of cultural heritage

635
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:57,100
because. Wow. I feel that what I do,

636
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,140
I deeply invest in

637
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,352
understanding why and how something is the way that

638
00:39:04,376 --> 00:39:08,096
it is. I research and become allies

639
00:39:08,208 --> 00:39:11,824
with the people who are progressing traditions, creating

640
00:39:11,872 --> 00:39:15,168
traditions, preserving traditions. I've worked with

641
00:39:15,224 --> 00:39:18,864
UNESCO, as I mentioned. And so

642
00:39:18,952 --> 00:39:22,612
when we think about what goes together, grows together, it is

643
00:39:22,636 --> 00:39:25,812
true that we could pair wines in a lot of different ways, but when you

644
00:39:25,836 --> 00:39:29,412
take that perspective, and this is why I teach a lot through food as

645
00:39:29,436 --> 00:39:33,028
well and highly curate those

646
00:39:33,084 --> 00:39:36,932
experiences. We're starting to understand how and why a wine is

647
00:39:36,956 --> 00:39:40,080
the way that it is, based on the other

648
00:39:40,460 --> 00:39:44,052
agricultural and cultural influences

649
00:39:44,116 --> 00:39:47,520
that co developed with the.

650
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:51,662
With the identity of that wine as well. And so traveling through food

651
00:39:51,686 --> 00:39:55,294
and wine is in our imagination, whether it's in a

652
00:39:55,302 --> 00:39:59,022
restaurant or at home, really can bring us such

653
00:39:59,046 --> 00:40:02,718
an intimate experience as you described, that you could think someone had

654
00:40:02,854 --> 00:40:06,654
been there a bunch of times. That's what happened. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's an

655
00:40:06,662 --> 00:40:10,014
interesting thought. I just. It just hit me when I started studying

656
00:40:10,062 --> 00:40:13,870
French. My wife was 15 years now,

657
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:16,942
she's been doing this charity for an Armenian group, and she raised a lot of

658
00:40:16,966 --> 00:40:20,578
money for doing this big event. My house gets consumed by

659
00:40:20,634 --> 00:40:24,482
women for like three weeks. And so I thought, you know, this is like the

660
00:40:24,506 --> 00:40:27,394
15th year. I said, you know, I can't deal with this anymore. So I'm just

661
00:40:27,402 --> 00:40:29,714
going to go in the room, I'm going to study French. My dad spoke French.

662
00:40:29,762 --> 00:40:33,250
I want to learn French. Yeah. And I started with the applications, you know,

663
00:40:33,290 --> 00:40:36,786
like Rosetta Stone and there's a couple other fluens, and.

664
00:40:36,938 --> 00:40:40,642
And I realized it's impossible. I don't care how smart you

665
00:40:40,666 --> 00:40:44,322
are, you. You cannot learn a language through one of those applications

666
00:40:44,386 --> 00:40:47,750
because it has nothing to do with the culture. It has nothing to do with

667
00:40:47,790 --> 00:40:51,334
understanding Napoleon. And Josephine has nothing to do with understanding Josephine

668
00:40:51,382 --> 00:40:55,126
Baker doesn't have anything to do with that. It's just this rote system

669
00:40:55,198 --> 00:40:58,902
that they think, you know, attacks your brain cells in a better

670
00:40:58,926 --> 00:41:02,710
way than the other guys. And until you decide that you're going

671
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:06,262
to go to France or read about French or read about the

672
00:41:06,286 --> 00:41:09,974
revolution or read about whatever you want to read about. But understand the culture through

673
00:41:10,062 --> 00:41:13,876
the cultural heritage is when you start to grasp the concept

674
00:41:13,908 --> 00:41:17,160
of the language. Yeah. And the food and the wine.

675
00:41:17,820 --> 00:41:21,620
And I, I tell the story many times, but my

676
00:41:21,660 --> 00:41:25,412
mom was an incredible cook, and she traveled the world as part of,

677
00:41:25,516 --> 00:41:28,480
you know, her. The wine business as well.

678
00:41:29,580 --> 00:41:33,268
And it had been probably 50 years since I had

679
00:41:33,324 --> 00:41:36,996
smelled this quiche that she used to make, and it was in Paris.

680
00:41:37,188 --> 00:41:40,892
And my wife looked at me to when. When the food was delivered, and

681
00:41:40,916 --> 00:41:44,700
she goes, what's wrong with you? Because he's like, my face

682
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:48,380
had just changed. And I said, I haven't smelled this for

683
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:52,140
50 years. And I wanted to make this exact quiche. And that's how

684
00:41:52,180 --> 00:41:55,720
memorable wine can be for an experience.

685
00:41:56,020 --> 00:41:59,708
Food Obviously. And then cultural understanding is

686
00:41:59,764 --> 00:42:03,484
so critical to that. And I think that's a really great. Approach that

687
00:42:03,492 --> 00:42:07,100
you're taking to when you open yourself up. I'm always the one crying over my

688
00:42:07,140 --> 00:42:10,832
food or laughing uncontrollably or,

689
00:42:10,856 --> 00:42:14,480
you know, I think food is very emotional, and I'm not afraid to

690
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,368
open myself to it because that's the joy. I do love

691
00:42:18,424 --> 00:42:21,980
to help encourage people to enjoy their food more.

692
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,112
But on another subject of language, I'm always trying to

693
00:42:26,136 --> 00:42:29,872
come up with different learning modalities that can help

694
00:42:29,896 --> 00:42:33,536
people approach this level of intimacy. Because that's where

695
00:42:33,608 --> 00:42:36,382
real joy lies, right? Is knowing something

696
00:42:36,576 --> 00:42:40,322
closely. So I've come up with a new kind of workshop that

697
00:42:40,346 --> 00:42:44,130
I. I'm gonna be developing this year and

698
00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:47,426
offering, which is a integrative language,

699
00:42:47,618 --> 00:42:51,442
Food and wine Immersive day. So, for

700
00:42:51,466 --> 00:42:55,266
example, it's a way of learning French and Italian

701
00:42:55,298 --> 00:42:59,090
and Spanish so that

702
00:42:59,130 --> 00:43:02,556
we'll have, like, classroom time in the morning to learn

703
00:43:02,698 --> 00:43:06,264
actual vocabulary and grammar around wine and food.

704
00:43:06,432 --> 00:43:09,864
Then a long, long lunch that's curated

705
00:43:09,992 --> 00:43:13,768
where people are allowed to speak English, but that will be, you know,

706
00:43:13,824 --> 00:43:17,656
kind of integrating more vocabulary

707
00:43:17,688 --> 00:43:21,512
and language around the ingredients and service and all

708
00:43:21,536 --> 00:43:24,980
these things, but not in a. In a oppressive kind of way

709
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,072
with little games, like, you know, having little cards that you can, you know,

710
00:43:29,096 --> 00:43:32,608
identify which one is the mushroom, you know. Or which is

711
00:43:32,744 --> 00:43:36,240
great. And then in the afternoon, kind of return to the classroom, but to

712
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,300
flow through tastings, through eating.

713
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,176
And in partnership with, you know, I speak

714
00:43:44,208 --> 00:43:47,952
these languages, but in partnership with people who are actually language teachers so that

715
00:43:47,976 --> 00:43:51,616
we can come together. And then at the end of the day,

716
00:43:51,768 --> 00:43:55,462
it can either just inspire people to enrich

717
00:43:55,526 --> 00:43:59,302
their language studies that they're engaged in so that they can travel, for

718
00:43:59,326 --> 00:44:03,094
example, or so that they can read

719
00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:06,870
better about wine and understand the,

720
00:44:06,910 --> 00:44:10,102
you know, the terms that are always in French, for example, are always in

721
00:44:10,206 --> 00:44:13,958
Italian. I think that's a great

722
00:44:14,094 --> 00:44:17,830
approach. Alliance Francaise does that. Basically, the events, you

723
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:21,410
do them, but you're going to curate them yourself and.

724
00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:25,284
And produce it. I think that's just the way to do it. And I. And

725
00:44:25,292 --> 00:44:29,012
I'm making that analogy because wine would. A

726
00:44:29,036 --> 00:44:32,500
person's understanding of wine would benefit greatly also from

727
00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:36,068
understanding the culture. Like, for instance. And we're almost out of time here. But I.

728
00:44:36,124 --> 00:44:39,940
I'm a little jealous of the French protection

729
00:44:40,020 --> 00:44:43,300
of their regions for not only wine, but cheese and

730
00:44:43,340 --> 00:44:47,172
butter. And it was really interesting to me because when I bring

731
00:44:47,196 --> 00:44:50,992
that up with the French, just. Actually, I was talking to Florence Catiard the

732
00:44:51,016 --> 00:44:54,672
other day, they. They also look at the new world, the

733
00:44:54,696 --> 00:44:57,632
Napa side of things, like, hey, we can go to Napa, do whatever we want,

734
00:44:57,656 --> 00:45:00,784
which is what they did. Plant whatever we want. We can decide what we want

735
00:45:00,792 --> 00:45:03,776
to grow. We can make whatever we want to. We don't have to, you know,

736
00:45:03,848 --> 00:45:07,248
play by any rules. And I go, what? You know, the grass is always greener,

737
00:45:07,264 --> 00:45:11,060
I guess, when it comes to these kinds of things. But I think as Americans

738
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,252
and as. As. As culturally, I'm not gonna say

739
00:45:15,276 --> 00:45:19,012
restricted. The American culture is because it's founded on freedom, but,

740
00:45:19,116 --> 00:45:22,756
you know, we don't seek those things. And here you are

741
00:45:22,828 --> 00:45:26,276
providing an opportunity for somebody that wants to learn those

742
00:45:26,428 --> 00:45:30,276
here, not having to travel. I think it's a great idea. Well, I

743
00:45:30,348 --> 00:45:34,100
do like to point out, historically speaking, that, you know, for example, about the new

744
00:45:34,140 --> 00:45:37,908
world, we as Americans often have this rigid idea that the old world

745
00:45:38,044 --> 00:45:41,884
is, you know, this historically rich, fixed place with, you

746
00:45:41,892 --> 00:45:45,692
know, culture that never changes, you know, and that the new

747
00:45:45,716 --> 00:45:49,132
world is all open. And actually, these things are not

748
00:45:49,236 --> 00:45:53,004
exactly true, and I have a lot to say about that. But one good example

749
00:45:53,052 --> 00:45:56,668
in Napa is that Cabernet Sauvignon was only first

750
00:45:56,724 --> 00:45:59,036
mentioned in the early

751
00:45:59,108 --> 00:46:02,892
mid-1700s. It's not a. It's not

752
00:46:02,916 --> 00:46:06,520
an ancient grape variety. Right. And

753
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:10,294
so. So it's less than 100 years later, it appears

754
00:46:10,422 --> 00:46:14,262
in Napa. That's a profoundly

755
00:46:14,326 --> 00:46:18,102
historic. Yeah, it was mission, I think, partnership.

756
00:46:18,166 --> 00:46:21,910
That we have with Cabernet Sauvignon. So, you know, for example, when I take

757
00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:25,638
people to Napa and Sonoma and we visit the axis of KAB

758
00:46:25,734 --> 00:46:29,382
and, you know, these areas in Napa and Sonoma and

759
00:46:29,566 --> 00:46:33,126
potentially Lake county, you know, this is also

760
00:46:33,198 --> 00:46:36,812
a deeply rich history that can be explored.

761
00:46:36,876 --> 00:46:39,900
And I think it's interesting to look at ourselves and look at the old world

762
00:46:39,940 --> 00:46:43,180
differently, to look at the old world and recognize the

763
00:46:43,220 --> 00:46:46,876
innovation, tradition. Emile

764
00:46:46,908 --> 00:46:50,440
Paino, the kind of probably the very first wine consultant, said,

765
00:46:50,980 --> 00:46:54,732
tradition is experimentation that worked. And so

766
00:46:54,756 --> 00:46:58,300
there is no preserving tradition without being experimental and

767
00:46:58,340 --> 00:47:02,052
open. Right, right. And so traditions will die if you

768
00:47:02,076 --> 00:47:05,860
do not innovate them. And so I really like

769
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:09,732
to open my mind to what that means as a

770
00:47:09,836 --> 00:47:13,508
American or, you know, for American wines and

771
00:47:13,564 --> 00:47:17,268
our traditions, which are real and for the old world,

772
00:47:17,324 --> 00:47:19,840
too. So I think. Is that on your website,

773
00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:24,628
tradition is. Is experimentation, Network, maybe. Yeah, I love to quote that.

774
00:47:24,684 --> 00:47:27,136
I feel like I've heard it, and I thought, well, I wouldn't have heard it

775
00:47:27,228 --> 00:47:30,536
otherwise. You know, it's Interesting, because when I was talking to

776
00:47:30,608 --> 00:47:34,328
Florence, I looked up Smith Lafitte and

777
00:47:34,384 --> 00:47:38,232
it had been founded like in 1379 or something like

778
00:47:38,256 --> 00:47:42,024
that. And here they bought the Louis Martini property,

779
00:47:42,152 --> 00:47:45,992
which was founded in, you know, 1885 or something. I thought,

780
00:47:46,016 --> 00:47:49,816
wow, there's a 500 year difference between the founding

781
00:47:49,848 --> 00:47:52,740
of their two wineries. But just as important

782
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,920
culturally for them to create this

783
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,584
tradition in. So I guess it can start any time.

784
00:48:00,672 --> 00:48:04,472
We are out of time. Okay. And we have plenty more to

785
00:48:04,496 --> 00:48:08,020
talk about. Yeah, we do. Fascinating conversation. And it's so

786
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,200
inspiring to hear the things you're attacking to. To

787
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:16,072
move the needle for the industry, for the consumer. It

788
00:48:16,096 --> 00:48:19,282
must light you up when you have somebody that you

789
00:48:19,386 --> 00:48:23,074
watch the light go on and go, wait a minute. It's

790
00:48:23,122 --> 00:48:26,722
the best. That's why I. That's what it's all about, actually,

791
00:48:26,826 --> 00:48:30,482
especially. And the reason. I'll just finish. But when I

792
00:48:30,506 --> 00:48:34,322
first led one of these wine tours, I kind of fell into it. And at

793
00:48:34,346 --> 00:48:38,194
the end of the week, more than one person in the group said it

794
00:48:38,202 --> 00:48:40,978
was the best week of their life. And this was the first time I'd ever

795
00:48:41,034 --> 00:48:44,732
done anything like this. And I thought, well, that's a vocation then. I mean,

796
00:48:44,756 --> 00:48:48,236
if I can give somebody that kind of joy and pleasure, then

797
00:48:48,308 --> 00:48:51,836
I. I must move towards that

798
00:48:51,988 --> 00:48:55,708
because, you know it. What's better in life

799
00:48:55,764 --> 00:48:58,880
than to. That's excellent for others to live more richly.

800
00:48:59,540 --> 00:49:02,988
Thanks for the time today. And we will definitely reconvene.

801
00:49:03,084 --> 00:49:04,180
Okay. We'll do.