Making Wine Beverly Hills!...Paul Warson Does. Find Out How.

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Carson Leno, Fallon.

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Now it's wine talks with

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Paul K. Hey, welcome to wine talks with

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Paul Kay. And we are at an away game way up in the Bel Air

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Mountains, about to have a conversation with Paul Warston of Moraga vineyards.

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Introductions to just a moment. Wine talks, of course, available on I heart radio,

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Pandora, Spotify, wherever you hang out for podcasting. Hey, have a listen

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to George Walker III.

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He is with Wade Sellers, the brainchild of Dwayne Wade, the famed

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basketball player. And they are making wines for

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the community around pricing and quality,

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trying to get a wine out there at the 15 to dollar 20 range that

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you're going to appreciate. This is Wade Sellers. It's a crazy good conversation.

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I was up in Napa at the association of African American Vendors

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Tasting. Had a chance to catch up with these wines. Very good. Have a listen

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to that. And Eve de Launay, he is

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a luxury good specialist all his career,

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from Louis XIII Cognac to Sotheby's

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to Cartier watches. Have a great conversation with him

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or listen to him. He is now with

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Chateau Cheval Blanc. So I think you'll find that very fascinating. But

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not while we're here today. Here we have a conversation with Paul at Morag Avenue.

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Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. Glad you could be here today. This

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is the kind of thing that makes this industry fun.

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And I do this. Yesterday I was playing golf. My buddy said, what are you

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doing now? You're retired? I go, yeah, but really I'm having more fun and learning

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more than I've ever learned. And it's because of shows like this one that

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we're going to have. Being up in Bel Air

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and having. Tasting, you would never know that we're here.

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Somebody said, and I didn't catch this, but you cannot see the vineyards from the

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405 freeway. You can if you know when to look and where to

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look, you can just see them if you're heading north. Okay, so we

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are in at Moraga venues. It's in Bel Air. It's in the

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famed part of Los Angeles, known for its

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hillsides and mansions and proximity to Beverly Hills.

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But we're at a winery. How many acres do we have under vine here? Well,

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under vine, seven and a quarter. The entire property is roughly 16 and a half

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acres. Wow. You know what's kind of interesting? I saw this, we're just going to

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jump in is you've got various. And I

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try to stay away from wine geeky stuff, but I have to. Here you have

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various direction facing

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slopes. Here we do we have a variety?

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And to good and sometimes ill effect.

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We can take some photos of this later, but we do have one

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hillside that that is relatively close

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proximity to the floor of this canyon,

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and one side faces north and one side faces

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south. And it was a singular block of

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merlot. And

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the prior winemaker recognized

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1518 years ago that

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the north side of the block ripened about three

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weeks after the south side. Oh, interesting. The sun.

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So, you know, being a small winery like we are, small winery and

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vineyard, they ripped out. Or actually, they didn't rip out. They just

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lopped off the tops of the vines that had merlot, and they grafted Sauvignon blanc

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onto it. And so because it wasn't worth their

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effort to try and keep it

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unified in one block, I mean, by the time they

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would pick the one side that ripened earlier, the fermentation would

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near be over for that wine when they then got

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around to picking. Yeah, right. And I want to say when they got around, when

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the other side of the block was ready to be picked. So they just

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said effort, and grafted it over to Sauvignon

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blanc, and now it ripens. Actually, ironically enough, it ripens about

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a week before the merlot was ready.

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So, yeah, that's crazy. So, just for

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the lay of the land, for the listeners, we're driving down the 405 freeway, driving

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north, you make a hard right turn with your head, and you might catch a

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glimpse of these vineyards, which are beautiful. But when I drove

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up and I walked in the gate, I realized, and I felt

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like I was in the middle of what would have been traditional wine

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country. And that's not what we're here. People

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have heard this idea that this vineyard exists, but

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this isn't a toy here. This is some serious

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winemaking. And the reason I showed up is because when we tasted together

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at the four seasons, I mean, I was blown away by the quality of the

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wine. Is that indicative of the terroirs? I know

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it's indicative of your skill sets. Of course. It's indicative of the age of the

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vines. Where are we drawing this character from? You know,

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first of all, the soil. Well, actually, let's go a little bit

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further back. You know, Los Angeles County, Orange county, southern

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California as a whole has a long, rich, and storied history in

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agriculture. It does. The San Fernando Valley used to be

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small gardens. Well, not small, but one to

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five acre farms and lots of orange

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groves. Everything east of the Los

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Angeles river for, uh, many decades

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was grapevines. That's where they grew up,

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and it extended up into, into south Pasadena. Um,

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you know, I can still remember, I'm from Los Angeles. I can still

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remember driving down to San Diego to see my grandmother and about

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whatever it was, 510 miles outside of Anaheim or

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Disneyland. It was just orange groves from

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there all the way down to Mission Viejo, where the

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hillsides became too steep. And then there was lion country safari. And I

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would often just nap because it was just orange groves. It was more boring than

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driving up the fire. Yeah. Lying country safari. Yeah. And

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so the original owner, Tom Jones, he was

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president and CEO of Baxter Northrop, a big

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aerospace firm. Yeah, a big aerospace firm. And he

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wanted to live in a vineyard in his retirement. And he

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looked at properties up north in Nap and Sonoma, and this is in the mid

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seventies. And then he looked

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at Santa Barbara county, and he felt that was all still too far away

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from where he considered home. This property

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here in Bel Air and the Baxter northrop offices in

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Pasadena, which he did still stay heavily involved in after

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his retirement. You know, you said a lot that I'm gonna back up just a

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little bit. You're talking about going to Anaheim. And for the listeners, I think it's

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really important to know that the wine trade in California really started

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here in Rancho Cucamonga and moved

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north into Los Angeles, where Los Angeles was a hotbed of wine making. I mean,

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there was a ton of vineyards here and in Anaheim,

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where I think Pierce's disease got a hold of it and killed

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basically the whole industry. But it was thriving at that

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point. But LA. And you said South Pasadena. Yeah. I mean, many of the

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streets in Los Angeles are named after the prominent vintners of the

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time. And then it moved to Napa. Yeah.

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Or even Venus street. Yeah. Right. That's right. Wine,

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it means wine. So I think it's important to know that

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this actually on the east coast at that

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time, the request for California wine

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was rather voluminous, and we would ship from here,

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from Los Angeles. And I think the consumers should understand that

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because the terroir here is suited for that. Yeah.

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There were nearly 200,000 acres of vines planted, uh, in

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La county, uh, in, in

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1893. Yeah. Wow, that's a lot

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fascinating. That's fascinating. And, and, I mean, southern California

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was the breadbasket to the country. It was farms out here. Yeah.

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Uh, the whole west side prior to World War Two was small family

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farms, uh, a lot of row crops, but. So back

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to what makes us. Yeah, so here we are. So, you

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know, it, it. Winemaking, isn't that big of a

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departure. Oh, and actually, I would like to add that the city seal has. Still

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has a grapevine on it. Oh, I didn't know that. That's great. Back when it

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was incorporated as a city, Los Angeles, that

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was one of the largest commodities that we produced

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in county or in the city.

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And so we're on

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hillsides. We do have a small valley floor,

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so to speak. And we plant our white frietal

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Sauvignon blanc there on the flats. And everything else

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is on hillsides. The cabernet sauvignon, merlot, petit Verdot and

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Cabernet franc. We have

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mostly south facing

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slopes, except for that little saddle that

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the left side is north

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facing. And so it doesn't get as much sun

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and. Yeah, and actually south and west facing slopes,

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we have a wonderful maritime influence. We're 4

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miles from the ocean, from Santa Monica Bay.

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Pulpit of pass, so to speak. Yeah. And you know, with this fallen past Santa

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Monica mountains, when you.

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So let's see, today we're probably 75 degrees. I know

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Thursday we're supposed to be at 90, where I live in the valley, in San

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Fernando Valley. We'll probably hit 7880

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here. You know, right now you can see

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the breezes and the trees, the

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ocean. The bay provides a cooling effect,

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not as dramatic as, say, San Francisco Bay provides to

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the Los Carneros region. Right. But

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it's there nonetheless. And we also

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have, you know, the gate

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is about 30ft above sea level. If you

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look behind you up the hill, we peak out at about

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850ft. Wow, it's quite a change. Yeah, yeah. So

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we've got very. A variety of elevations, a

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variety of exposures.

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And from its inception, Tom Jones

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wanted Moraga to be modeled

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after a french house making one white wine, one red

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wine.

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And

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that's been kind of our marching. Orders,

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so to speak. The part

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that is dynamic about this is that it's not

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this hobby idea. Clearly, when you drive

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up the drive and you see you're driving around the jeep

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and you feel like you've immersed yourself in what would typically be a

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large part of the California wine country, but you're just in a very isolated area,

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but you've got all the facilities, all the. You got. We're in a tasting room

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right now. You've got the trucks driving around the vineyards.

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You're looking at. We're looking at beautiful vines out the tasting room window here. This

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is a functional, fully operational,

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serious attempt and success at making

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quality wines. And when I met you, I was at, I think

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one of the preeminent Cabernet Sauvignon tastings in the

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state, put on by one of the great guys, Ian Blackburn, who does this.

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And every year, I won't miss it. And I got to your table, and I'm

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like, wow, this is really good. And then all of a sudden, it was produced

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that the idea came out that it was from Bel Air. And so

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how do you, how does people find out about this place? I mean, what are

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they? I didn't know. I mean, I knew the rumor that it existed.

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Yeah. And that's. That's. Well, and that. And that's why you're here today, right?

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Because, you know, I,

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as the winemaker, maker, and general manager and the, and the now

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owner, don't want this to be a secret.

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It was kind of a,

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an intimate club and was a hobby for a very long

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time. But all

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businesses need to make money, and some businesses are more

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difficult to make money at than others.

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But there is now a big

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push for us to make

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sales, for us to make people

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aware that we're here and that they,

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we can make wines just as good as they can in habit,

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if not better. So, again, I don't feel I ever finished

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your original question of what makes

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us us and able to make what we make. So,

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from the beginning, in the late seventies, there were soil samples

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taken, and they were shipped up to Cal

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State Fresno, and a couple of.

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Tony Soder was the first consulting winemaker, and

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he with a company called

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Crop Care and Associates out of Napa.

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Tom Prentiss is the president and primary

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partner. There's a couple other people. Bob Gallagher is one of them. Tom

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used to come down here.

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It's often been said that if. Oh, great. Now I'm going to

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forget what the guy's name is. Welcome to the

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club. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it.

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Oh, God. Dave Abreu. It's been said that if Dave Abreu isn't your

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vineyard consultant or vineyard manager, Tom Prentices,

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those are the two really heavy hitters in

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viticulture and viticulture consultancy up

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there. And actually, Tom consults up and down the state

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in Hawaii. I know he's gone to India and China as well,

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so. So, no, they know their stuff.

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And, you know, there are very few secrets in

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winemaking, and. But you pay

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for the experts opinions. And

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so Bob Gallagher, he's been coming down here for nearly

236
00:14:35,052 --> 00:14:38,588
40 years, and it's consistency

237
00:14:38,716 --> 00:14:42,556
in the people and the style and the types of barrels

238
00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:45,908
we purchased. So when they took the samples for the listeners, they

239
00:14:45,916 --> 00:14:49,534
had, it's an interesting part of our industry. Right.

240
00:14:49,654 --> 00:14:52,926
You can go to Europe or go to the

241
00:14:52,950 --> 00:14:56,750
Caucasus, grab some grape vines and bring them to

242
00:14:56,782 --> 00:15:00,590
America, plant them and hope they work and see what you get. Or you can

243
00:15:00,622 --> 00:15:04,342
hire a vineyardist. There's another term for

244
00:15:04,358 --> 00:15:05,994
those good culturalists. Yeah.

245
00:15:08,134 --> 00:15:11,886
Okay. So. And they will come and they'll examine the soil and

246
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:15,728
they'll say, well, based on the acid and the different organisms that are in

247
00:15:15,736 --> 00:15:19,264
the soil, we can, you might do better with sod and cabernet, et cetera, et

248
00:15:19,264 --> 00:15:22,792
cetera. And so there's a, you know, there's two choices. So

249
00:15:22,848 --> 00:15:26,672
here you've decided we're going to test the soil, figure out what we

250
00:15:26,688 --> 00:15:30,096
can grow. It turned out to be Bordeaux varietals for the most

251
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,808
part. Yeah. You know, they planted everything. They planted some sangiovese,

252
00:15:33,856 --> 00:15:37,604
they planted some train, and they planted some pinot. And

253
00:15:38,424 --> 00:15:41,840
actually, Pinot does very well here in LA, especially

254
00:15:41,912 --> 00:15:43,544
on. Oh, I'd love

255
00:15:45,964 --> 00:15:49,484
Pinot noir. There are a few out there. Yeah.

256
00:15:49,644 --> 00:15:53,204
Yeah. But so, you know, through, through those

257
00:15:53,244 --> 00:15:56,940
consultants, winemaking and viticulture, you know, everything that they do

258
00:15:56,972 --> 00:16:00,684
at. Screaming at screaming eagle in the vineyard, we do

259
00:16:00,724 --> 00:16:04,532
here. Same consultant, you know, and it's not

260
00:16:04,588 --> 00:16:08,060
just that. It's what they do, it's their style.

261
00:16:08,132 --> 00:16:11,540
It's, it's. No, that's the right thing to do. And

262
00:16:11,612 --> 00:16:15,420
any, all viticultural. Viticultural consultants will agree. And

263
00:16:15,452 --> 00:16:18,972
winemakers. Yeah, that's what you should do. The only thing that we don't do

264
00:16:19,028 --> 00:16:22,716
is pull as many leaves. We get

265
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:26,436
our weather a little differently. Than they do up north. June is

266
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:30,316
notoriously a foggy month here in LA. We've got, and all of

267
00:16:30,340 --> 00:16:34,156
southern California, we've got the June gloom. Napa and

268
00:16:34,180 --> 00:16:37,724
Sonoma. June is a much sunnier and hotter month up there.

269
00:16:37,844 --> 00:16:41,576
And so they're relying upon the heat to give, for the

270
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,368
heat to allow the grapevine to grow a thick cuticle, a wax

271
00:16:45,416 --> 00:16:48,804
layer around the berry. Because we have so much fog

272
00:16:49,504 --> 00:16:52,880
in June, we're not able to develop that cuticle to

273
00:16:52,952 --> 00:16:56,432
be. So we give a little bit more canopy that way. A little bit more

274
00:16:56,448 --> 00:16:59,488
canopy, not a lot. There's still plenty of dappled

275
00:16:59,536 --> 00:17:03,232
sunlight that gets through the canopy, but we need to

276
00:17:03,248 --> 00:17:06,976
be a little bit more cautious and a little less aggressive than they are

277
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,449
up north. It's kind of interesting. This is not the first story that I've

278
00:17:10,481 --> 00:17:14,097
heard, and I'm very close to one of the other stories about the

279
00:17:14,145 --> 00:17:16,253
aerospace executives

280
00:17:18,313 --> 00:17:22,121
deciding once in particular in the seventies, because El Segundo and

281
00:17:22,177 --> 00:17:25,865
all that still is actually a hotbed of aerospace.

282
00:17:26,009 --> 00:17:29,373
But the Wetzel family was executives with,

283
00:17:30,433 --> 00:17:33,133
I can't remember the name of the company. See, I'm doing, I got your disease.

284
00:17:33,913 --> 00:17:37,681
And they end up in Alexander Valley vineyards in Sonoma. And so there

285
00:17:37,697 --> 00:17:41,530
was something in the seventies that's kind of interesting besides the wealth built

286
00:17:41,642 --> 00:17:45,254
in the aerospace, but this dream of winery,

287
00:17:46,034 --> 00:17:49,334
this romantic lifestyle of being in the wine business.

288
00:17:50,314 --> 00:17:54,010
But then you said earlier you

289
00:17:54,042 --> 00:17:57,346
kind of wanted to make some money at some point. Well, yeah, you know, I

290
00:17:57,370 --> 00:18:00,894
was reading something not too long ago that was

291
00:18:01,234 --> 00:18:04,454
talking about the boom of industry

292
00:18:05,674 --> 00:18:09,402
that happened in the fifties and sixties and then in

293
00:18:09,418 --> 00:18:13,026
the seventies with movies like a Clockwork Orange and Blade Runner

294
00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:16,854
and Star wars, you know, that

295
00:18:18,714 --> 00:18:22,346
our utopia world that we all hoped we would end up

296
00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:26,170
in wasn't that at all. And in fact, the future

297
00:18:26,242 --> 00:18:29,534
was dirty. And in Blade Runner, Rainey,

298
00:18:30,514 --> 00:18:33,970
and in Star wars, technology wasn't reliable,

299
00:18:34,082 --> 00:18:36,574
like R

300
00:18:38,204 --> 00:18:41,980
green and the white and red Tek droid that

301
00:18:42,172 --> 00:18:45,452
blew up and caused Luke Skywalker to end up with

302
00:18:45,468 --> 00:18:48,788
R. You

303
00:18:48,796 --> 00:18:52,284
know, I can't help but wonder if

304
00:18:52,404 --> 00:18:55,504
those executives in technology

305
00:18:55,964 --> 00:18:57,984
and in defense as well,

306
00:18:59,204 --> 00:19:03,036
weren't maybe a little disenchanted with the

307
00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:06,868
future that they helped bring. That's interesting. That they helped bring

308
00:19:06,916 --> 00:19:08,584
forth unto the world,

309
00:19:11,684 --> 00:19:15,348
and maybe they wanted to live a more pastoral

310
00:19:15,396 --> 00:19:19,196
existence. Yeah, that's a pretty interesting thought. You never know. Well,

311
00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:23,012
it is. I mean, it is pastoral, and it is. I

312
00:19:23,028 --> 00:19:26,148
wrote this article the other day, and I won't get into the whole thing, but

313
00:19:26,196 --> 00:19:29,508
the end of it is basically wine is what it was

314
00:19:29,596 --> 00:19:33,380
10,000 years ago. Effectively, we have more technologies to refine

315
00:19:33,412 --> 00:19:36,924
it, but effectively, nature has done the work for us. It's fermenting

316
00:19:36,964 --> 00:19:40,626
grapes and using it as a beverage that does something to us. It

317
00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:43,522
connects us to the soil or where it's from. I think that's a very important

318
00:19:43,578 --> 00:19:47,178
part of what we do, but having to make a buck at it

319
00:19:47,346 --> 00:19:50,538
to keep it going and make the lifestyle seem

320
00:19:50,626 --> 00:19:54,402
fruitful, you know, just pouring money down the drain, which is

321
00:19:54,418 --> 00:19:58,210
very common in our industry. And so now we arrive at this point

322
00:19:58,242 --> 00:20:01,666
where I meet you at a tasting, and you're, you're exposing the brand to the

323
00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:05,522
consumers. Can the consumer come and taste wine here? They can. They can. Everything is

324
00:20:05,538 --> 00:20:09,294
by appointment only. Uh, and, uh, you know, some,

325
00:20:10,034 --> 00:20:13,786
some days we might have two or three tastings lined up. Some days

326
00:20:13,930 --> 00:20:17,666
we don't have any. Um, and then some days, you know,

327
00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:20,042
things might be going on on the property that don't allow us to have a

328
00:20:20,058 --> 00:20:23,746
tasting. Um, but. So. But, yeah, we

329
00:20:23,770 --> 00:20:27,562
can accommodate anywhere from twelve to. Sorry, four to twelve

330
00:20:27,618 --> 00:20:31,014
people. The table that we're at seats twelve.

331
00:20:31,634 --> 00:20:35,170
And we do. We also do corporate events anywhere from,

332
00:20:35,202 --> 00:20:38,234
whatever. 1015 people to

333
00:20:38,394 --> 00:20:41,814
75, 150. It was a general reaction,

334
00:20:42,394 --> 00:20:45,818
I would suspect, even today, even though you've started some efforts

335
00:20:45,866 --> 00:20:49,650
to publicize what you do here. But what is the general reaction?

336
00:20:49,682 --> 00:20:53,054
Like, I never knew this existed. Like, what? I'm like, what?

337
00:20:53,554 --> 00:20:57,106
Mostly that I never knew you existed. Or, you know,

338
00:20:57,210 --> 00:21:00,874
we've had people who've gone to the Getty. Excuse me, that's across the

339
00:21:00,994 --> 00:21:04,786
highway from us. And in fact, my dad, in his

340
00:21:04,810 --> 00:21:08,226
retirement, he was a docent at the Getty. And so we went a couple of

341
00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:11,614
times, and on the tram ride up, and this is in the early two thousands.

342
00:21:11,954 --> 00:21:15,434
On the tram ride up, I looked and said to my wife,

343
00:21:15,474 --> 00:21:19,258
oh, I wonder if that's Moraga. I mean, I've known.

344
00:21:19,306 --> 00:21:23,098
I'm in the wine industry. Honestly, I've known about it. I

345
00:21:23,146 --> 00:21:26,866
knew that it existed. And actually, I almost convinced

346
00:21:26,890 --> 00:21:30,106
myself that it wasn't. And it must have been someone else's property, because I thought

347
00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:33,294
Moraga was further up Benedict Canyon. Right.

348
00:21:34,354 --> 00:21:37,054
Which we aren't. And so,

349
00:21:38,314 --> 00:21:40,654
yeah, you know, it's funny.

350
00:21:43,194 --> 00:21:46,574
We're. You know.

351
00:21:46,874 --> 00:21:50,610
What is it? The Huntington,

352
00:21:50,682 --> 00:21:54,322
you know, that is a travel destination

353
00:21:54,418 --> 00:21:58,202
here in Los Angeles. It's been featured in numerous

354
00:21:58,338 --> 00:22:02,142
tv shows and movies. You know, and

355
00:22:02,278 --> 00:22:05,830
it's iconic. You know, I would like for us to

356
00:22:05,862 --> 00:22:09,382
sometime, at some point in time, hold a position like that. Yeah, sure. Here in

357
00:22:09,398 --> 00:22:12,434
Los Angeles. I think you could. There is.

358
00:22:13,014 --> 00:22:16,754
The site's been used in a few television shows,

359
00:22:17,574 --> 00:22:19,874
and most recently,

360
00:22:21,014 --> 00:22:24,342
Modern Family. There was an episode where they went to Napa,

361
00:22:24,398 --> 00:22:28,198
and since they. I was gonna say they really didn't have it

362
00:22:28,206 --> 00:22:31,830
in their budget to go to Napa. But we're right here. Yeah. So much like

363
00:22:31,862 --> 00:22:35,190
it. Yeah. And. Yeah. And we are we

364
00:22:35,302 --> 00:22:39,054
again, you know, for all the vineyards that are doing the

365
00:22:39,094 --> 00:22:42,470
right thing up there, we're doing it here as

366
00:22:42,502 --> 00:22:45,646
well. For their 100,

367
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:49,342
400, $1600 bottles of wine, we're doing it.

368
00:22:49,478 --> 00:22:51,634
We're doing the same things. It seems

369
00:22:53,574 --> 00:22:57,342
when you said that people don't know you're here and you're not a. It's not

370
00:22:57,358 --> 00:23:01,182
a huge facility. As far as winemaking production, you said seven to 800 cases

371
00:23:01,238 --> 00:23:04,882
on a good year, and last year was not such a good year. Are

372
00:23:04,898 --> 00:23:08,514
you. Are you still are you hampered by the same types of

373
00:23:08,554 --> 00:23:12,394
conditions that would restrict not only the

374
00:23:12,434 --> 00:23:16,254
quantity of a wine from Napa or Lodi or wherever else,

375
00:23:17,034 --> 00:23:20,218
as well as the quantity as well as the quality, meaning

376
00:23:20,266 --> 00:23:23,814
weather, when the

377
00:23:24,154 --> 00:23:27,906
buds break, when they are ready to pick, all those things are the

378
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:31,374
same influences that control that in general?

379
00:23:31,674 --> 00:23:34,214
In general, yes. But

380
00:23:35,314 --> 00:23:39,066
I would argue, and I don't think anyone would disagree with

381
00:23:39,090 --> 00:23:42,594
me once they heard my argument, that the

382
00:23:42,634 --> 00:23:44,654
pressures are even more extreme here.

383
00:23:46,634 --> 00:23:50,362
And there are probably a few other vineyards outside of

384
00:23:50,498 --> 00:23:54,346
La county or Orange county that have the

385
00:23:54,370 --> 00:23:58,002
same difficulties. And really, that is

386
00:23:58,058 --> 00:24:01,814
mildew pressure. So mildew pressure is

387
00:24:02,354 --> 00:24:05,414
modeled under the,

388
00:24:06,394 --> 00:24:10,130
not the assumption, but the guidelines are that the mildew

389
00:24:10,162 --> 00:24:13,610
pressure, if you have 8 hours of weather between 68 degrees and

390
00:24:13,642 --> 00:24:17,242
90, your mildew pressure will

391
00:24:17,298 --> 00:24:21,146
increase by 20%. Where we are now

392
00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:22,774
at 75 degrees today,

393
00:24:24,244 --> 00:24:28,076
overnight, going into tomorrow, when it's supposed to be 80 degrees

394
00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:31,860
or 78 degrees, we're going to

395
00:24:31,892 --> 00:24:35,556
have three eight hour periods where the weather, the

396
00:24:35,580 --> 00:24:38,144
temperature does not drop below

397
00:24:38,924 --> 00:24:41,664
68 degrees. So

398
00:24:43,164 --> 00:24:45,504
if yesterday we had zero pressure,

399
00:24:46,844 --> 00:24:50,424
by the time we reach this time tomorrow, we will

400
00:24:50,464 --> 00:24:54,280
be at 60% mildew pressure. Yeah. Wow.

401
00:24:54,432 --> 00:24:57,848
And then two thirds into tomorrow,

402
00:24:58,016 --> 00:25:01,296
we will be at 100% mildew pressure.

403
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,056
Wow. And if it

404
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,176
doesn't get over 90, we're going to be at 100%

405
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,364
for the next three weeks.

406
00:25:13,464 --> 00:25:16,644
So typically a graph for mildew

407
00:25:16,684 --> 00:25:20,356
pressure. And this simply is when and

408
00:25:20,380 --> 00:25:24,092
how powdery mildew will sporulate and then

409
00:25:24,148 --> 00:25:27,700
cause more powdery mildew to

410
00:25:27,732 --> 00:25:28,304
grow

411
00:25:32,004 --> 00:25:35,704
in Santa Barbara county. In Napa and Sonoma, you'll see

412
00:25:37,364 --> 00:25:40,572
this time of year you will have a lot of overnight lows that drop into

413
00:25:40,588 --> 00:25:44,200
the fifties. If you climb up

414
00:25:44,232 --> 00:25:47,960
to 20 or 40 after two days, and then

415
00:25:47,992 --> 00:25:50,644
you have whatever, three nights

416
00:25:52,184 --> 00:25:55,364
below 68 degrees very easily in the fifties

417
00:25:55,784 --> 00:25:59,164
you'll drop to 10%. And then

418
00:26:00,664 --> 00:26:04,352
if you have a couple of days where they're at

419
00:26:04,488 --> 00:26:07,888
whatever 68 degrees is the high, you won't

420
00:26:07,936 --> 00:26:11,694
accumulate any mildew pressure and you'll drop down to zero again

421
00:26:12,594 --> 00:26:15,734
when that happens. You know, we, so,

422
00:26:16,194 --> 00:26:19,854
so to prevent powdery mildew, we spray fungicides.

423
00:26:20,274 --> 00:26:23,974
At this point in time and this point of the year, we're spraying,

424
00:26:25,114 --> 00:26:28,850
we're spraying with stylid oil, which is mineral oil, and we're

425
00:26:28,882 --> 00:26:32,694
playing spraying with elemental sulfur, two organic products.

426
00:26:33,034 --> 00:26:36,272
And, and there's

427
00:26:36,448 --> 00:26:40,120
usually a window of seven to ten days after you

428
00:26:40,152 --> 00:26:43,776
spray that you then need to return and spray

429
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,444
again with some

430
00:26:47,104 --> 00:26:48,084
commercial

431
00:26:50,144 --> 00:26:53,564
milticides or fungicides.

432
00:26:54,624 --> 00:26:58,120
You can have a 14 to 17 day

433
00:26:58,152 --> 00:27:01,844
window and also a 2017 to 21 day window.

434
00:27:04,014 --> 00:27:07,750
When you get to the end of your

435
00:27:07,862 --> 00:27:11,606
spray window, if you're at zero pressure, you can let

436
00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:14,910
that ride a few days and not have to go out and spray. And then

437
00:27:14,942 --> 00:27:18,274
as soon as the temperature rises again, then you spray.

438
00:27:19,054 --> 00:27:22,454
And that's responsible farming. But

439
00:27:22,534 --> 00:27:26,246
when after two days, you have 100%

440
00:27:26,350 --> 00:27:30,078
mildew pressure and you've just sprayed. We just started

441
00:27:30,126 --> 00:27:33,954
our spray cycle again yesterday, Monday,

442
00:27:34,534 --> 00:27:38,182
and we'll finish tomorrow. And, you know, because of the

443
00:27:38,198 --> 00:27:41,514
weather we're gonna have, because it's so wonderful. Here,

444
00:27:42,134 --> 00:27:45,814
I think it's an important feature. Not to interrupt you, but because

445
00:27:45,934 --> 00:27:49,454
I think I want the listeners to understand you're spraying because

446
00:27:49,534 --> 00:27:52,950
you're protecting the crop. And I think this world of

447
00:27:52,982 --> 00:27:56,782
organic and biodynamic and all the things that are

448
00:27:56,798 --> 00:28:00,094
going on in the marketplace today claiming

449
00:28:00,134 --> 00:28:03,856
health value, et cetera, et cetera, need to understand that

450
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,736
you're spraying organic products. They're there to save you, make sure

451
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,152
the crop propagates, and you don't just spoil a thing. And that goes back to

452
00:28:11,168 --> 00:28:14,376
the business of wine. You're here to make a bottle of

453
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,240
wine, change somebody's lifestyle by

454
00:28:18,272 --> 00:28:21,384
having that bottle of wine around at the same time. Or to get that done,

455
00:28:21,424 --> 00:28:25,088
you need to do the things that need to get done. Yeah, we do. But

456
00:28:25,176 --> 00:28:28,566
also, I don't want to spray every

457
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:32,182
seven. If I. If I can it. I mean, it costs me more. I've.

458
00:28:32,238 --> 00:28:35,830
I've got people that can be other things that have other things to

459
00:28:35,862 --> 00:28:39,114
do. And, and so.

460
00:28:39,414 --> 00:28:43,150
But also, we're in the middle of a neighborhood. If I. Not that

461
00:28:43,182 --> 00:28:46,878
this is. These are noxious materials. Again, we're spraying with mineral

462
00:28:46,926 --> 00:28:50,718
oil and elemental sulfur. You know, probably breathe

463
00:28:50,726 --> 00:28:54,074
in more sulfur off freeway, sitting in traffic. Yeah.

464
00:28:54,414 --> 00:28:57,584
Then, then you. Than you would in the vineyard.

465
00:28:58,244 --> 00:29:01,756
But no, trying to be a

466
00:29:01,780 --> 00:29:03,184
responsible farmer.

467
00:29:05,964 --> 00:29:09,700
I don't want to have to just do it because I

468
00:29:09,732 --> 00:29:13,412
can do it. I'll do it when I need to do it. That's an important

469
00:29:13,468 --> 00:29:15,624
feature. So when you're done with this,

470
00:29:17,164 --> 00:29:20,748
you're pushing all the buttons on the envelope of making wine. You're in a

471
00:29:20,876 --> 00:29:24,540
different neighborhood than most winemakers. There's not read,

472
00:29:24,652 --> 00:29:27,868
I would suspect, that there's not readily available all the things that you would be

473
00:29:27,876 --> 00:29:30,104
able to go down the street and napa to get.

474
00:29:31,884 --> 00:29:34,244
What's the end game? What are we trying to do here? We're trying to produce

475
00:29:34,284 --> 00:29:37,944
the best wine we can

476
00:29:40,764 --> 00:29:44,104
in the bottle so that the consumer says, oh,

477
00:29:44,564 --> 00:29:48,372
this is Moraga, and I'm gonna go back to that tasting again. That was sort

478
00:29:48,388 --> 00:29:52,124
of a semi trade tasting in the morning, and then the consumers

479
00:29:52,164 --> 00:29:55,866
came at night. You are obviously, you said earlier you're

480
00:29:55,890 --> 00:29:59,650
100% direct to consumer. Everything you sell here goes

481
00:29:59,682 --> 00:30:03,274
through. From your hand to the consumer. Yeah,

482
00:30:03,434 --> 00:30:07,218
yeah. Entirely through a club. We

483
00:30:07,226 --> 00:30:10,490
have a wine club. We have our mailing list. We

484
00:30:10,522 --> 00:30:14,162
have local wine

485
00:30:14,178 --> 00:30:17,938
shops and restaurants that carry our wine, but we sell directly to them.

486
00:30:17,986 --> 00:30:21,704
We don't have a distributor. We don't have a broker.

487
00:30:22,124 --> 00:30:25,604
We have a woman who's in. She's our sales manager

488
00:30:25,764 --> 00:30:29,572
and her director of sales. But I'm not a big person on

489
00:30:29,748 --> 00:30:32,948
titles. I remember her. She was at the tasting, I think. Yeah, yeah.

490
00:30:32,996 --> 00:30:36,796
Suzette. And then we

491
00:30:36,820 --> 00:30:40,584
have a. Actually, it was just in here quietly,

492
00:30:41,044 --> 00:30:44,498
Philip. And he's in charge of our wine club and events.

493
00:30:44,596 --> 00:30:48,350
And so in events would be tastings for the

494
00:30:48,382 --> 00:30:52,126
consumer when they call us up or email us saying, hey, I would

495
00:30:52,150 --> 00:30:55,966
love to come to Moraga and taste your wine. Are we selling everything we

496
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:59,758
make right now? No, we are not. And so,

497
00:30:59,926 --> 00:31:02,798
I mean, I'm going to go to the marketing side of things now. This is

498
00:31:02,806 --> 00:31:05,878
what I did most of my life. Come to the tasting. You have twelve people

499
00:31:05,926 --> 00:31:09,486
one day for a tasting, and they go, wow, this is

500
00:31:09,510 --> 00:31:13,294
amazing. I didn't know you existed. And is there a club? And then you

501
00:31:13,414 --> 00:31:17,118
solicit club memberships at these points. Yeah. And see, and then

502
00:31:17,166 --> 00:31:20,634
the club is quarterly. Well,

503
00:31:21,334 --> 00:31:25,014
no, no. With the club, you

504
00:31:25,054 --> 00:31:28,478
get. And I'm not going to say you have to buy one to join the

505
00:31:28,486 --> 00:31:30,998
club. If you want to just email, say, I would like to be on your

506
00:31:31,006 --> 00:31:34,846
mailing list and join your club. You join the club that way. But

507
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:38,114
it gets you access to the property and our release events.

508
00:31:38,824 --> 00:31:42,656
And so we are now having. We had been doing

509
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,600
before COVID Pre

510
00:31:46,632 --> 00:31:50,312
COVID, we had one release

511
00:31:50,368 --> 00:31:54,016
a year, and it was always in May. And then post COVID,

512
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,680
we had our. We turned it into a harvest party. The

513
00:31:57,752 --> 00:32:01,444
property owners, they weren't comfortable with,

514
00:32:01,744 --> 00:32:05,200
well, certainly in 2020, having a release and then working into

515
00:32:05,232 --> 00:32:08,612
2021, you know, things weren't

516
00:32:08,788 --> 00:32:12,036
all that open. Spring of 21. And

517
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:15,252
so we ended up not doing anything in

518
00:32:15,268 --> 00:32:18,716
2021. And then in 2022, we had a

519
00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:22,452
harvest release party. And so it

520
00:32:22,468 --> 00:32:25,904
was in mid, late September,

521
00:32:28,324 --> 00:32:31,772
and we had our release party in October or September.

522
00:32:31,828 --> 00:32:35,404
October. And so now we're going to be having a spring summer

523
00:32:35,444 --> 00:32:39,206
release. That's going to be. We will release our white wine at

524
00:32:39,230 --> 00:32:42,886
that time, and then in the fall, we will

525
00:32:42,910 --> 00:32:46,694
continue to have a harvest party. And we will

526
00:32:46,734 --> 00:32:48,114
release our red

527
00:32:50,494 --> 00:32:52,474
at that time. And

528
00:32:53,694 --> 00:32:57,394
again, the pre COVID release had both the red and the white.

529
00:32:58,174 --> 00:33:01,518
One thing that people

530
00:33:01,686 --> 00:33:04,034
continually ask for is access,

531
00:33:05,144 --> 00:33:08,960
and that's Hoinklip. It's a beautiful property here. Yeah, no,

532
00:33:08,992 --> 00:33:12,816
that's really. It's gorgeous. I mean, you could. On a slightly breezy day like

533
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,600
today, you can't even hear the 405 freeway. Most days

534
00:33:16,632 --> 00:33:20,284
you can't. If it's not breezy even. And,

535
00:33:20,944 --> 00:33:24,244
you know, it's. Hopefully you can have some,

536
00:33:25,104 --> 00:33:28,760
well, I don't know, website, whatever, have some pictures of what you,

537
00:33:28,792 --> 00:33:32,240
what you saw here today. But this

538
00:33:32,272 --> 00:33:35,648
is just a hidden gem. It is. It's a gorgeous

539
00:33:35,696 --> 00:33:38,084
place. And

540
00:33:39,704 --> 00:33:43,204
Rupert Murdoch owns Moraga vineyards. He is

541
00:33:43,744 --> 00:33:47,044
committed to preserving it, keeping this

542
00:33:47,744 --> 00:33:51,104
land as agriculture, and

543
00:33:51,144 --> 00:33:54,464
continuing the tradition that we've long since established

544
00:33:54,544 --> 00:33:58,146
in California. Winemaking, you know, it seems like.

545
00:33:58,250 --> 00:34:01,426
And I was wearing lodi. I mean, I'm sorry, we were in Temecula last week.

546
00:34:01,450 --> 00:34:04,858
I did a very similar conversation like this with a young family who's trying

547
00:34:04,906 --> 00:34:08,098
to make a go of wine in

548
00:34:08,146 --> 00:34:11,946
Temecula. And there was

549
00:34:11,970 --> 00:34:15,334
a stark difference between what I tasted

550
00:34:15,674 --> 00:34:19,042
at the tasting with you and what I taste down in Temecula. And this is

551
00:34:19,058 --> 00:34:22,850
not a distant Temecula. The point about it is that

552
00:34:22,922 --> 00:34:26,514
that technology or that area has been around for a long time in the wine

553
00:34:26,554 --> 00:34:29,929
world. I featured a 1988 wine from

554
00:34:29,961 --> 00:34:33,009
Temecula, but they've never gotten the

555
00:34:33,041 --> 00:34:36,665
traction that not only in technology,

556
00:34:36,769 --> 00:34:40,329
but the winemaking talent to come to make wines of

557
00:34:40,361 --> 00:34:44,145
interest. And I thought the wines were solid that I tasted the other day, but

558
00:34:44,169 --> 00:34:47,825
they weren't refined like the ones that we tasted from here.

559
00:34:48,009 --> 00:34:51,801
And I've always wondered why that happens. And white Temecula

560
00:34:51,817 --> 00:34:55,570
has never really gotten that traction. Callaway was down there for a long time, very

561
00:34:55,602 --> 00:34:59,210
well known, and that was maybe because of the investment by

562
00:34:59,402 --> 00:35:03,066
Eli Calloway that they got that working. But there seems to be

563
00:35:03,090 --> 00:35:06,858
something here. And I think you saw my expression when I

564
00:35:06,866 --> 00:35:10,226
tasted the wines at the tasting, that was an eyebrow

565
00:35:10,290 --> 00:35:13,922
raising quality. And that must be from not only the terroir,

566
00:35:13,978 --> 00:35:16,454
but your experience getting here.

567
00:35:18,114 --> 00:35:19,814
Yeah, you know it.

568
00:35:22,894 --> 00:35:26,534
You know, Scott Rich, who was the former winemaker, and

569
00:35:26,614 --> 00:35:28,634
he learned under Tony Soder.

570
00:35:29,734 --> 00:35:33,114
And I think

571
00:35:33,574 --> 00:35:37,358
so he and I, he graduated from UC Davis a couple years before

572
00:35:37,406 --> 00:35:41,154
I did. He graduated with a master's. I graduated with a bachelor's.

573
00:35:43,694 --> 00:35:47,526
He was a. Actually, he was an engineer with the department of transportations.

574
00:35:47,590 --> 00:35:51,382
And if I remember, oh, the regular path he designed

575
00:35:51,478 --> 00:35:54,994
freeway on ramps and off, and helped

576
00:35:55,414 --> 00:35:59,206
develop that whole corridor off the five in southern

577
00:35:59,230 --> 00:36:02,954
Orange county and Marguerite

578
00:36:03,814 --> 00:36:07,598
Parkway, stuff like that, that old stuff. And so

579
00:36:07,646 --> 00:36:11,470
that's what he was. So it took him a while to learn

580
00:36:11,502 --> 00:36:14,646
what it was he really wanted to do in life. And I figured it out

581
00:36:14,670 --> 00:36:18,078
when I was in college. Lucky me. Believe me, I'm not

582
00:36:18,206 --> 00:36:22,006
disparaging him in any way of the utmost respect for Scott. He's a

583
00:36:22,030 --> 00:36:24,914
terrific winemaker. He's a good person, and.

584
00:36:25,854 --> 00:36:29,574
But with COVID you know, he could. Getting down here as

585
00:36:29,614 --> 00:36:32,954
often as he liked was very difficult. And, you know,

586
00:36:34,214 --> 00:36:37,934
yeah, I think COVID was very bleak for a lot of people, myself

587
00:36:37,974 --> 00:36:41,750
included. But. But he and I cut our

588
00:36:41,782 --> 00:36:44,926
teeth about the same time. You know, Tony Soter was doing a whole bunch of

589
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:48,590
research in ripening and seed hardening, and. And I was

590
00:36:48,622 --> 00:36:52,366
able to talk to him about that because when I was at Trefethan,

591
00:36:52,430 --> 00:36:55,918
he was making wine on. On Big Ranch Road at

592
00:36:55,966 --> 00:36:58,714
what's now the Lewis Sellers facility.

593
00:37:00,174 --> 00:37:03,910
And so,

594
00:37:03,942 --> 00:37:06,846
you know, everything that we learned

595
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:10,742
differently, but at the same time, we

596
00:37:10,758 --> 00:37:14,270
were learning from similar people and all the advances that were

597
00:37:14,302 --> 00:37:16,634
happening, we were all part of that. And

598
00:37:17,894 --> 00:37:21,492
going through his records and his notes, you know,

599
00:37:21,548 --> 00:37:25,292
we have very similar winemaking styles. Let's go back

600
00:37:25,308 --> 00:37:28,424
to that, where that came from. I mean, you left UC Davis

601
00:37:28,724 --> 00:37:32,304
and your path, and that's what I'm trying to get to. Your path to here

602
00:37:33,004 --> 00:37:36,716
wasn't. It was serendipitous. You went to a lot of

603
00:37:36,740 --> 00:37:40,100
places and you had a lot of experience, and I think that comes out in

604
00:37:40,212 --> 00:37:43,588
what you taste. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

605
00:37:43,756 --> 00:37:47,380
No, I. Graduating from. Well, while I was still in school, I did an internship

606
00:37:47,412 --> 00:37:50,748
at Gloria Ferrer there in Shelton sparkling wine house, sparkling wine in

607
00:37:50,756 --> 00:37:54,504
carnaos. And then

608
00:37:55,084 --> 00:37:58,464
after I graduated from UC Davis, they asked me to return,

609
00:37:58,924 --> 00:38:02,724
which was great. And then from there, because

610
00:38:02,764 --> 00:38:06,412
that was sparkling. I finished off that harvest in 95

611
00:38:06,468 --> 00:38:10,244
at Maryvale working for Bob Levy. And then from

612
00:38:10,284 --> 00:38:13,784
there, I spent a year at Newton Vineyards working for John Kongsguard.

613
00:38:15,124 --> 00:38:18,796
And then John left to start up Luna Vineyards, which now isn't there

614
00:38:18,820 --> 00:38:22,668
anymore. A lot of that going around. And Bob Swain took

615
00:38:22,716 --> 00:38:26,452
over, and he's now retired, but he. He was making wine up

616
00:38:26,468 --> 00:38:27,584
in Mendocino.

617
00:38:30,044 --> 00:38:32,144
Great. I can't remember that winery now either.

618
00:38:34,204 --> 00:38:38,012
But then from Newton Vineyards, I called in a few favors, and I

619
00:38:38,028 --> 00:38:41,020
worked for Philip Schott, Rosemount Estates in New South Wales.

620
00:38:41,212 --> 00:38:44,892
And I want to stop you right there for two things.

621
00:38:44,948 --> 00:38:47,948
For two reasons. One is, I just had a thought when you said you would

622
00:38:47,996 --> 00:38:51,700
Gloria Ferrer Ferrers. Is that

623
00:38:51,732 --> 00:38:54,996
like being, if you're a french baker and you come out of

624
00:38:55,020 --> 00:38:58,556
pastry school, you sort of have to declare whether you're going to be a boulanger

625
00:38:58,580 --> 00:39:00,304
or a bread baker or

626
00:39:03,084 --> 00:39:06,740
pasteurger. Do you kind of decide, like, I'm in the sparkling wine world,

627
00:39:06,772 --> 00:39:09,476
but I'm going to go into the still side, or is that you? Well, actually,

628
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:13,388
they were making some still wine. They were developing their still Chardonnay and Pinot

629
00:39:13,436 --> 00:39:16,744
program, and I helped. I worked with them on that.

630
00:39:17,244 --> 00:39:20,988
And that was my. Actually, despite their size, that was my introduction to small

631
00:39:21,036 --> 00:39:24,524
scale winemaking, you know. But then you go to Rosemont, which is

632
00:39:24,564 --> 00:39:28,236
huge. Well, in a sense, just for the things. New

633
00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:31,184
Zealand, for the. I mean, for Australia. For the. Yeah, well, you know,

634
00:39:32,444 --> 00:39:36,100
I'll back up just a second. You know, so it was small scale

635
00:39:36,132 --> 00:39:39,104
winemaking there and then at Newton Vineyard.

636
00:39:40,284 --> 00:39:44,024
John was. Is an amazing winemaker.

637
00:39:44,844 --> 00:39:48,144
And, you know, it's.

638
00:39:50,484 --> 00:39:54,180
I think I was incredibly fortunate in working for the people that

639
00:39:54,212 --> 00:39:57,844
I did because they

640
00:39:57,884 --> 00:40:01,588
looked at wine a little differently than a lot of other winemakers. Now,

641
00:40:01,636 --> 00:40:04,064
I'm not going to say that some of them weren't jerks

642
00:40:05,444 --> 00:40:08,264
and that. They like to yell at, personality notwithstanding.

643
00:40:08,844 --> 00:40:11,784
But, but you know what they.

644
00:40:13,584 --> 00:40:17,320
But you know, he. Bob Levy.

645
00:40:17,512 --> 00:40:21,080
Philip Shaw. You know, Philip Shaw. Because of just

646
00:40:21,152 --> 00:40:24,924
the. When I got there, my first day, I

647
00:40:25,624 --> 00:40:28,992
flown into Sydney, had to take a three and a half hour train ride to

648
00:40:29,128 --> 00:40:32,744
Musselbrook. And they were in a little town called Denman, about 20

649
00:40:32,784 --> 00:40:36,616
km outside that town. And it was like ten

650
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,196
or 1500 people, something like that. And I asked

651
00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:43,820
Philip Shaw how much wine they were making.

652
00:40:43,972 --> 00:40:47,660
And can I swear. Yeah. He

653
00:40:47,692 --> 00:40:51,156
said, fuck if I know. This was

654
00:40:51,180 --> 00:40:54,932
the middle of February. And he said, I

655
00:40:54,948 --> 00:40:58,764
was supposed to be making 700,000 cases of wine this year

656
00:40:58,924 --> 00:41:02,524
at the beginning of February. That's what they forecasted. I've now

657
00:41:02,564 --> 00:41:06,270
bottled 1.3. Wow. I don't

658
00:41:06,302 --> 00:41:10,110
know. Yeah, yeah. And this was when. So

659
00:41:10,142 --> 00:41:13,474
this was 1997, and all of the australian

660
00:41:13,854 --> 00:41:17,622
animal and animal labels were coming out. You had

661
00:41:17,638 --> 00:41:21,006
the big eye and the kangaroo. It was when one

662
00:41:21,110 --> 00:41:24,674
australian ones were pretty popular. Yeah, yeah. And,

663
00:41:25,774 --> 00:41:29,214
and so. But no, you know, he. But in addition

664
00:41:29,294 --> 00:41:32,696
to the. Whatever, the $8 bottle of

665
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:36,008
Rosemount Shiraz. Well,

666
00:41:36,096 --> 00:41:39,944
Shiraz, or, I mean, the 90,000 cases of Shiraz

667
00:41:39,984 --> 00:41:43,816
and Chardonnay that they're making, that was selling for whatever, less

668
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,204
than $10 a bottle. They were also making

669
00:41:48,224 --> 00:41:51,296
tremendous amounts of small scale

670
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,376
wines that were 400,

671
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,356
1605 thousand cases for

672
00:41:58,380 --> 00:42:00,892
their release for the year. You know, they had a wine that was called the

673
00:42:00,908 --> 00:42:04,620
giant steps Chardonnay and that was whatever, 800 cases or something

674
00:42:04,652 --> 00:42:08,404
like that. And then they had the Balmoral syrah that they were, that was

675
00:42:08,444 --> 00:42:10,504
a very rhone inspired wine

676
00:42:12,124 --> 00:42:15,532
as opposed to a shiraz. And,

677
00:42:15,708 --> 00:42:19,524
and they made whatever, 1400 cases of that. That's interesting.

678
00:42:19,644 --> 00:42:23,304
And, and so, but he, so while they were making all these,

679
00:42:23,674 --> 00:42:26,854
some of these wines had recipe books. There were other wines that

680
00:42:27,394 --> 00:42:31,154
it was, no, this, we're going to be, this is the

681
00:42:31,194 --> 00:42:33,374
style. This is what we're going to make and

682
00:42:35,074 --> 00:42:38,594
this is what the consumer wants. But we've also developed the

683
00:42:38,634 --> 00:42:40,774
consumer for this product.

684
00:42:43,514 --> 00:42:47,194
And so while it was a huge facility, there was lots of cool

685
00:42:47,234 --> 00:42:49,974
stuff going on as well. That's the first time

686
00:42:50,794 --> 00:42:52,934
in 350 episodes

687
00:42:54,394 --> 00:42:58,210
that I've heard a winery, maybe it's happened. This just

688
00:42:58,242 --> 00:43:01,826
wasn't discussed producing what we call formula

689
00:43:01,850 --> 00:43:05,522
wines for the supermarket. And like I said, I can't remember the

690
00:43:05,538 --> 00:43:08,762
97, 98, 99 if that was part of the boon for australian

691
00:43:08,778 --> 00:43:12,626
wines. Australian wines have ebbed and flow in America now.

692
00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:14,666
You don't see much of them. You used to see all of them all the

693
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:18,436
time. Rosemont Penfolds, they're all here. But it's

694
00:43:18,460 --> 00:43:22,164
the first time I've heard somebody talk about a winery that does

695
00:43:22,204 --> 00:43:25,956
both. That's creating that mass brand which we need, the mass brands. We

696
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:29,556
need those brands for people to remember what they tasted and go back and buy

697
00:43:29,580 --> 00:43:33,116
it again because they become wine drinkers and then they learn and

698
00:43:33,140 --> 00:43:36,624
experience and maybe Rosemont's, maybe that's their marketing strategy.

699
00:43:37,084 --> 00:43:40,756
You know, it happens. You

700
00:43:40,780 --> 00:43:44,552
know, some wineries, I

701
00:43:44,568 --> 00:43:48,256
mean, some wineries are a

702
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,924
lot larger than the consumer perceives them to be.

703
00:43:52,784 --> 00:43:56,336
I think you point to a champagne house like, you know, Veuve Clicquot and you

704
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,192
find out that it's not so unique. Well, even, even

705
00:44:00,248 --> 00:44:02,884
here in California, you know,

706
00:44:03,464 --> 00:44:07,256
it's, I

707
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,016
don't want to name names. Well, so you've got, but

708
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,544
there's a. Well known producer, of course, in

709
00:44:15,084 --> 00:44:18,676
Napa and everyone thinks they make 20,000 cases of

710
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:22,140
Sauvignon blanc, but they really, I mean, when I left Napa, it was

711
00:44:22,172 --> 00:44:25,732
in 2009, they were making 100,

712
00:44:25,788 --> 00:44:29,384
2140 thousand cases of it. And

713
00:44:30,124 --> 00:44:33,884
they. Yeah, I mean, what's funny, interesting from a number

714
00:44:33,924 --> 00:44:37,180
standpoint, it went from a winery and maybe didn't come directly here after Rosemont,

715
00:44:37,212 --> 00:44:40,864
but 700,000 cases, quote unquote, map

716
00:44:41,724 --> 00:44:45,532
a million. But down to 700 cases, which is

717
00:44:45,548 --> 00:44:49,144
a considerably different. Yeah. So after Rosemount,

718
00:44:49,804 --> 00:44:53,544
I went to work at Chateau Patel. I worked for Jean Noel and Martino.

719
00:44:54,604 --> 00:44:57,740
I'd love to go see him again. And he's a good guy. He's a great

720
00:44:57,772 --> 00:45:01,164
guy. He's a good guy. And Marqueta is wonderful,

721
00:45:01,204 --> 00:45:04,884
too. Sean Wells, the marketer. Marqueta was a lot. Highway

722
00:45:04,924 --> 00:45:08,396
29, right? Well, they. No, they used to be up on Mount

723
00:45:08,420 --> 00:45:12,260
Vitor, so they are now on highway

724
00:45:12,292 --> 00:45:16,020
29, just south of St. Helena. Jean

725
00:45:16,052 --> 00:45:19,396
Noel kept the winery and the brand

726
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:22,664
and Marquetta, sort of handmade by Marquetta,

727
00:45:23,444 --> 00:45:26,664
but no, Marchetta was a terrific winemaker.

728
00:45:29,004 --> 00:45:32,492
And I learned she was trained

729
00:45:32,628 --> 00:45:36,476
in. In France and, uh, in her

730
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:39,984
winemaking. And. And from her, you know,

731
00:45:41,084 --> 00:45:44,820
she strove to make even. Even Zinfandel, which they were really known

732
00:45:44,852 --> 00:45:48,308
for, in a more classic old world

733
00:45:48,356 --> 00:45:51,904
style. And that's true. And that's.

734
00:45:52,644 --> 00:45:56,460
I'm not going to say that's a trick, but, you know,

735
00:45:56,492 --> 00:46:00,194
that's. That's a skill and. And it. And it's highly

736
00:46:00,234 --> 00:46:02,986
developed. Did you work for her then, when she was developing. Yeah, I worked for

737
00:46:03,010 --> 00:46:05,774
two. Yeah, I worked for her for two and a half years. And.

738
00:46:06,554 --> 00:46:10,042
And, you know, everything there. So, I mean, their mass produced

739
00:46:10,098 --> 00:46:13,682
wines, their central Coast Chardonnay, their Amador County

740
00:46:13,738 --> 00:46:16,414
Zinn, they did about 3000 cases of.

741
00:46:17,434 --> 00:46:21,274
But what they were known for was their VGS Chardonnay,

742
00:46:21,314 --> 00:46:24,178
which they made 600 cases of, and their vgs

743
00:46:24,226 --> 00:46:27,782
cabinet, which they made whatever, 400 cases of, and their

744
00:46:27,798 --> 00:46:30,514
vgs infanta, which they made 1200. Cases of.

745
00:46:32,614 --> 00:46:36,430
Those wines. I mean, at the time, in 97, the Chardonnay

746
00:46:36,462 --> 00:46:40,102
was $45 a bottle. The cab was

747
00:46:40,278 --> 00:46:44,062
75 or so, and the xin was somewhere in between. Excuse

748
00:46:44,078 --> 00:46:47,870
me. I remember the wine well. You're

749
00:46:47,902 --> 00:46:51,510
right. You're absolutely right. I think I bought the. Can't remember.

750
00:46:51,622 --> 00:46:55,304
But. But it was that sort of non

751
00:46:55,344 --> 00:46:59,164
Lodi, non opulent, non, you know, overdone Xin.

752
00:46:59,824 --> 00:47:03,512
Much more structured than what California usually offers in the world of

753
00:47:03,528 --> 00:47:06,640
Zinfandel, which would be more old world in character.

754
00:47:06,752 --> 00:47:10,512
So that was your last stint in Napa? No, no.

755
00:47:10,568 --> 00:47:14,128
From there, I went to Trefethen family vineyards, and I was there for nine years.

756
00:47:14,256 --> 00:47:18,016
Another well known, established brand. Yeah. Yeah.

757
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,608
And started as a system winemaker. After a few years, promoted to

758
00:47:21,656 --> 00:47:25,072
associate winemaker. And when I left, I was. I had been winemaker for two years.

759
00:47:25,128 --> 00:47:28,664
Wow. And then at that time. So I'm originally from

760
00:47:28,704 --> 00:47:31,564
LA. I live in LA currently. And

761
00:47:32,624 --> 00:47:36,352
I was approached by Bill Foley, who had an opportunity in the central

762
00:47:36,408 --> 00:47:40,152
coast. The famed Bill Foley, who owns. Who

763
00:47:40,168 --> 00:47:43,808
knows how much he owns. He owns Foley family wines. I

764
00:47:43,816 --> 00:47:47,664
think now he's at 26 vineyards or

765
00:47:47,704 --> 00:47:51,480
properties, mostly, predominantly in California. He

766
00:47:51,512 --> 00:47:54,856
still has Walla Walla. He has a couple of brands

767
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,424
in Oregon, and then he has the wineries in

768
00:47:58,964 --> 00:48:01,988
New Zealand and a couple of strategic

769
00:48:02,036 --> 00:48:05,584
alliances with Italy and, I think, Chile.

770
00:48:06,844 --> 00:48:10,196
But with him, I was hired to start a high end red Bordeaux

771
00:48:10,220 --> 00:48:12,824
program. There was about 400 cases,

772
00:48:14,364 --> 00:48:17,436
and he liked what I was doing, and so he asked me to take over

773
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:20,852
for Firestone, which is the facility I was working out

774
00:48:20,868 --> 00:48:24,556
of. And then, you know, I

775
00:48:24,740 --> 00:48:27,704
slowly became the fix it guy. You know, I was able to turn

776
00:48:28,924 --> 00:48:32,624
Firestone around in less than two years. And then when I say turn around,

777
00:48:34,684 --> 00:48:38,316
it's, you know, they weren't known for getting good scores. He bought

778
00:48:38,340 --> 00:48:41,332
Firestone. He bought Firestone in August of

779
00:48:41,468 --> 00:48:45,060
2007 from Brooks Firestone from the

780
00:48:45,092 --> 00:48:48,396
family. Yeah. And I didn't know it was

781
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:52,182
struggling. Was it struggling? It. I'm not going to say it was

782
00:48:52,238 --> 00:48:55,314
struggling, but, you know, the.

783
00:48:56,454 --> 00:49:00,262
The children and the grandchildren, they didn't want any part of

784
00:49:00,278 --> 00:49:03,486
it. See? No more. Say no more. And, you know,

785
00:49:03,550 --> 00:49:06,934
his, you know, his father started

786
00:49:06,974 --> 00:49:10,314
Firestone, rubber and tire. Yeah. He knew that

787
00:49:11,134 --> 00:49:14,894
tires wasn't where his future, where he was

788
00:49:14,934 --> 00:49:18,766
destined to go. And so he started the winery. And

789
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:22,034
again, maybe that's, as I was talking,

790
00:49:22,774 --> 00:49:25,554
the future that they brought upon all of us.

791
00:49:28,214 --> 00:49:31,774
But, yeah, there was no family planned,

792
00:49:31,934 --> 00:49:34,874
and no one in the family wanted to lead it.

793
00:49:36,454 --> 00:49:40,182
Adam Firestone. He had already started up Firestone Walker

794
00:49:40,238 --> 00:49:43,926
with his brother in law, David Walker, and they had

795
00:49:43,950 --> 00:49:47,274
already purchased the brewery in Paso Robles

796
00:49:47,314 --> 00:49:51,026
and moved it up there. And they were being contract brewed across the

797
00:49:51,050 --> 00:49:54,786
country. Firestone

798
00:49:54,810 --> 00:49:58,466
being one of the first sort of notable central coast wineries,

799
00:49:58,650 --> 00:50:02,106
particularly. Certainly the name didn't hurt. Those are the days

800
00:50:02,250 --> 00:50:05,810
where you could go to a tasting like I visited you on, and he'd be

801
00:50:05,842 --> 00:50:09,562
pouring. Dickey Smothers would be pouring. Pat Paulson would be pouring,

802
00:50:09,738 --> 00:50:13,512
Dick Sanford be pouring. All those guys, because it was the love of what

803
00:50:13,528 --> 00:50:16,976
they were doing. It wasn't the celebrity status of who they were. It was more

804
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,600
of the love of making one. Yeah, yeah. No, I totally agree. And,

805
00:50:20,712 --> 00:50:24,480
you know, and that's, you know, having come

806
00:50:24,512 --> 00:50:28,272
from Napa, where it was the celebrity rock

807
00:50:28,288 --> 00:50:31,920
star winemaker, and coming to

808
00:50:32,072 --> 00:50:35,560
Santa Barbara, where, you know, I met

809
00:50:35,632 --> 00:50:38,760
some amazing winemakers who I had held

810
00:50:38,832 --> 00:50:42,344
in the highest esteem, just like, oh, my God,

811
00:50:42,844 --> 00:50:46,668
this is great. And. And it's and you can have it for

812
00:50:46,716 --> 00:50:50,196
such a reasonable price. And when I met these people, they were

813
00:50:50,220 --> 00:50:53,996
like, hey, how's it going? And here

814
00:50:54,020 --> 00:50:57,852
I am, like, you had. This whole different vision of what might be. Yeah, well.

815
00:50:57,908 --> 00:51:01,692
And, you know, and I'm pleased that it ended up

816
00:51:01,708 --> 00:51:05,292
being the way it was because, you know, they

817
00:51:05,308 --> 00:51:09,070
were slightly more down to earth people like myself. I mean, I'm trying

818
00:51:09,102 --> 00:51:12,846
to. I mean, I'm not sounding very humble. Saying that, but I don't think

819
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:16,702
that's arrogant at all. But, yeah, it

820
00:51:16,718 --> 00:51:18,354
was entirely different community,

821
00:51:20,734 --> 00:51:23,594
and it was great. I love making wine there. And then,

822
00:51:24,174 --> 00:51:27,582
actually, in the summer of 17, I moved the

823
00:51:27,598 --> 00:51:30,686
family back to LA to care for my dad, who had

824
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:33,474
Alzheimer's. And so.

825
00:51:34,554 --> 00:51:37,894
So I started up a small consultancy, managing some vineyards

826
00:51:38,354 --> 00:51:41,654
in the Malibu coast and doing some winemaking

827
00:51:42,114 --> 00:51:45,922
here in LA, in Malibu, and also a client in

828
00:51:45,938 --> 00:51:46,894
Temecula.

829
00:51:51,154 --> 00:51:54,642
And that's actually what brought me here. I got a

830
00:51:54,658 --> 00:51:58,018
call out of the blue one day from Rupert Murdoch's executive

831
00:51:58,106 --> 00:52:01,654
assistant saying, we need a winemaker.

832
00:52:01,774 --> 00:52:05,558
Can you help us out? I said, okay, what do

833
00:52:05,566 --> 00:52:09,334
you want me to do? I can help you hire somebody. I can hire

834
00:52:09,374 --> 00:52:12,822
somebody for you and mentor them, or I can do it

835
00:52:12,838 --> 00:52:16,678
myself. And it took him a few days, but they talked it over and

836
00:52:16,726 --> 00:52:19,310
they said, you know, I think we'd like to talk to you, and I think

837
00:52:19,342 --> 00:52:23,070
we'd like you to take this on yourself. Okay, great. Okay.

838
00:52:23,102 --> 00:52:26,950
Yeah. Okay. And so a week later,

839
00:52:27,062 --> 00:52:30,416
I was having lunch with Rupert and his then wife,

840
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,444
Jerry hall. And

841
00:52:34,784 --> 00:52:38,288
we had a terrific lunch and got to know each other

842
00:52:38,336 --> 00:52:42,024
fairly well and went through some of the wines,

843
00:52:42,144 --> 00:52:45,880
went through the barrel room, walked around the vineyard, talked to the guys,

844
00:52:45,992 --> 00:52:49,764
and then

845
00:52:51,464 --> 00:52:54,812
I left that day with a job offer. That's

846
00:52:54,828 --> 00:52:58,612
great. And so that was. Yeah, roughly three years

847
00:52:58,628 --> 00:53:02,372
ago. Congratulations. That's a great story, and it's a great history.

848
00:53:02,468 --> 00:53:06,228
We're out of time, if you can believe. It's been almost an hour. And so

849
00:53:06,276 --> 00:53:09,548
I love the fact that we arrived at how you arrived here. The end of

850
00:53:09,556 --> 00:53:12,748
the show is when you started. And so we have so much more to talk

851
00:53:12,796 --> 00:53:16,540
about because your knowledge of the history of wine and your experience

852
00:53:16,692 --> 00:53:19,900
that we must do this again. And, in fact, I think what I'm going to

853
00:53:19,932 --> 00:53:23,340
do is schedule a tasting with a group, my

854
00:53:23,372 --> 00:53:27,196
friends, who have no idea you're here, and we'll make an evening out of it,

855
00:53:27,220 --> 00:53:30,996
end up in Beverly Hills for dinner or something, and enjoy this view

856
00:53:31,060 --> 00:53:33,972
here. But such a pleasure to meet you. And I'm so happy I stopped by

857
00:53:33,988 --> 00:53:36,852
the booth and had a chance to taste the wines and just hear the story.

858
00:53:36,948 --> 00:53:40,668
Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. No,

859
00:53:40,716 --> 00:53:44,476
we have. We're doing a lot of things that we

860
00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:48,248
haven't done historically. You know,

861
00:53:48,296 --> 00:53:51,936
talking to press. It was every five years or

862
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,696
so, we'd send some wines out for reviews. We'd have some of

863
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:58,864
the doing air quotes, heavy hitters in

864
00:53:58,904 --> 00:54:02,004
wine, in wine media,

865
00:54:02,304 --> 00:54:05,944
and. But, no, we want people to know about

866
00:54:05,984 --> 00:54:09,004
us and know that we are accessible and,

867
00:54:10,224 --> 00:54:13,864
well, we're gonna. We're here and then we like to share our wines.

868
00:54:13,984 --> 00:54:16,834
So, Moraga. Is there a website? It's

869
00:54:16,874 --> 00:54:20,282
moragabellaire.com. M o r h e a front of

870
00:54:20,298 --> 00:54:24,082
this. Moragabellaire.com. And really, I

871
00:54:24,098 --> 00:54:27,874
think we're going to have a lot of fun working with this here because

872
00:54:27,914 --> 00:54:31,506
I think people will freak when they see

873
00:54:31,570 --> 00:54:35,122
this because it's like I said, you

874
00:54:35,138 --> 00:54:38,898
don't. It doesn't feel like it is not a hobby.

875
00:54:38,946 --> 00:54:42,538
This is legit winemaking at a legit level,

876
00:54:42,666 --> 00:54:46,338
that. That your wines were rivaling the wines of the

877
00:54:46,426 --> 00:54:50,266
stars of Cabernet tasting, which came from all over the state. So congratulations

878
00:54:50,330 --> 00:54:53,882
on that. Thank you very much. But thanks again for the time. And cheers.

879
00:54:53,978 --> 00:54:55,134
Yeah. Thank you.

880
00:55:03,754 --> 00:55:07,590
Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum Carrion. Don't forget to subscribe

881
00:55:07,622 --> 00:55:11,366
because there's more great interviews on their way. Folks, have

882
00:55:11,390 --> 00:55:13,774
a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.