Be Inspired.
June 11, 2024

Jamie Ritchie Has Storied History In Wine And Spirits. Now Is COO Of BlockBar. Crazy Stuff.

Jamie Ritchie Has Storied History In Wine And Spirits. Now Is COO Of BlockBar. Crazy Stuff.

During the episode, Jamie shares a riveting story from his auction days at Sotheby’s. One of the most memorable moments was auctioning the Romney Condy 1945, which fetched an astounding $558,000. This bottle's value was bolstered not just by its...

During the episode, Jamie shares a riveting story from his auction days at Sotheby’s. One of the most memorable moments was auctioning the Romney Condy 1945, which fetched an astounding $558,000. This bottle's value was bolstered not just by its rarity and exquisite quality, but also by its unique provenance - it originated from Robert Drouin's cellar, imparting a rich narrative that intertwined history and celebrity. This underscores the importance of storytelling and historical context in the realm of fine wines.

 

Blockchain & Wine Sales:  Discover how blockchain technology is revolutionizing the wine industry. Jamie explains how platforms like Blockbar ensure guaranteed provenance, traceability, and transparent transactions for wines and spirits. Perfect for digitally savvy collectors, especially millennials and Gen Z, who value security and convenience.

Market Trends: Jamie discusses the current state of the secondary market for Bordeaux wines and compares their value to other regions, including Burgundy and California. Learn why Bordeaux might just be the best bang for your buck right now!

Authenticity & Trust: Dive into a riveting discussion about the importance of trust in wine transactions. With concerns about wine fraud prevalent, find out how NFC stickers and RFI technology are used for product security.

NFTs in Wine: Experience a modern twist as we talk about the use of NFTs for high-end beverage collections, enabling secure storage, instant trading, and even unique auction experiences.

Storytelling & Marketing: Understand the critical role of authentic storytelling in the wine and spirits industry. Paul and Jamie critique the modern marketing landscape and emphasize why integrity and authenticity in branding matter more than ever.

Transcript
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Carson Leno

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Fallon. Now it's

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wine talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to wine talks with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today about

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to have a conversation with Jamie Ritchie all the way out in England.

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He is the CEO of Blockbar, a

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blockchain product for wine and spirits. Introductions in just

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a moment. Hey, have a listen to Reed Connect. I had him in

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the office about a month ago. What an

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amazingly philosophical approach to winemaking.

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I re listened to the show, which I usually don't like listening to myself, but

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this time I had to take a listen because it was so fascinating. Have listened

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to that as well as Jessica Kogan, just off a

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stint with vintage wine Estates, one of the leading women in digital

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marketing. Now with a company called Connect the Dots, I think you'll find

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her insight into digital marketing. What's going on out on the

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Internet really fascinating. Hey, have a subscribe to the show. Please give me

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a review. If you don't have a good thing to say, don't say it, but

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otherwise subscribe and tell your friends. But want to

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welcome Jamie Richie to the show. Thanks for being on the show. Thank you very

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much for having me, Paul. It's great to be with you. I'm fascinated by your

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history. Jamie was the 32 years with Sotheby's and the

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wine and spirits auction section as well as now

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CEO of what is blockchain

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technology for protecting your asset of wine and spirits. And

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we'll get dig deep into that. But I have to dig into the

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Sotheby's part and the auction part. I mean, like I

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said earlier off camera, I spent most of my adolescence

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with my father standing at auction paddling. I just

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went to the gooding car auction in Amelia Island. I mean, it's just,

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it's just something in your blood. Was that for you as well?

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Yes. Funnily enough, we share that in common because when I was growing

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up, my parents left London when I was four years old

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and they moved into a much bigger house in the country, down in

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Wiltshire. And I was always at the back of some auction rubble.

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My father bought most of all the gardening equipment, so he

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built across tennis court. All the netting and the lining machines came from

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auctions. He had one very good friend who knew a lot

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about the fine arts, one who knew a lot about the decorative arts, and they

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were always buying chests of drawers, pictures.

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So every weekend was dragging them out. So as I was growing

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up, I got interested in wine and spirits,

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mostly wine. And I was working

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the restaurant business and thinking about life

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in the wine business and want to work in fine wine. I was thinking, how

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could I, you know, what were the options for me?

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And so one was a wine merchant, a wine broker, or an auction house.

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And I also wanted to be an actor. When I was growing up in England,

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a failed actor becomes a barrister. So I studied law for a

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bit. And in my book, a failed barrister becomes an auctioneer, where the role

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of acting is just reduced accounting. And so

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I ended up seeing an advertisement for Sothebys and applying for

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it. This is back in 1990, and I applied for the job, and I

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got it, and I was there for 32 years. So a pretty amazing career.

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That's pretty fascinating. We have to rewind a little bit back to the auction

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part, because there's something about the chase and getting under your

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blood, and sometimes it's not about what you're buying, but it's kind of. It's kind

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of about winning the deal. And, you know, I consider it like

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the ultimate in capitalism. You know, if you got the most money, you certainly can

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own it. That. That at that moment. And

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what fascinates me about auctioning in general, and I don't want that, it's going to

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tie into the wine and spirit side, is, you know, you got to inspect

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the stuff. You got to know what, what you're talking about.

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I tell my son in laws. Well, my son in law, one of my son

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in laws, insisted that this Rolex watch that was up at a local

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auction, which is actually for movie props. It's a company that

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only auctions movie props. And he was convinced that this Rolex

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was. Was real, even though the listing said prop

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Rolex watch, and he bought it for

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$341 and it's real.

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That is fantastic. One of the great stories, you

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know. Yeah. Mistakes happen. I mean, the wonderful thing with wine auctions

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is that, yeah, the biggest sheer volume and the fact that it needs to be

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temperature controlled is that we don't actually, we didn't at

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Sotheby showcase any of the wines and spirits there. They were all sitting in a

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warehouse. You know, it's in temperature control, ready to be dispatched.

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So what it did mean is that you had to be super careful about all

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the inspection process, making sure everything was. Yeah. Had

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the correct provenance, was authentic and in good

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condition to drink. So we didn't sell things that we didn't believe were

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in good condition to consume as well. Let's peel that back a little bit, because

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there's a lot of fraud right now. I mean, somebody just told me the other

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day that somebody had created pallets of

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fraudulent yellowtail. I don't know why you would do that.

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The wine's only like 349 anyway. But

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there's a lot of awareness these days and a lot of conversation

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about the provenance of a wine that you buy. And there's a lot

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of private sellers up for auction. I went to appraise one the other day

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that that was completely trashed. Even

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had stickers on their petrus for 1995 from Trader

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Joe's many, many years ago. So

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how does Sothebys verify the provenance?

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And you said, use the term good condition to drink. I mean, that seems

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like a tall order. Well, yeah. So in the secondary

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market, yeah, there's obviously you

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try and understand where the collector is, what their collecting process has been.

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And once you've had some experience in it, you can pretty much figure out if

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things have been stored well or not. And then you can

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obviously physically visit the cellar, the location where the

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wines are, to check it out and verify the conditions of the wines. And

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then you obviously, on the condition, you're matching up and

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authenticity, you're matching up the provenance

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with the authenticity. So on authenticity, you're looking at the

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capsule, the bottle, the color of the liquid, the

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sediment, the label, and you're making

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sure that everything matches according to the story of the

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provenance as well. And so, yeah, an auction house can't

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authenticate anything, but they can go through the process

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to ensure that they sell it under their terms of

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guarantee. And the terms of guarantee is obviously validating. What?

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Yeah, the vintage, the year, etcetera, and the fact that obviously,

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it's in good condition. So on the condition side, you can get a bottle that

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looks absolutely perfect from the outside and yet has been stored too

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warm and has gently been cooked. And so generally

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sampling from different areas around the cellar will give you a good

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indication of the condition of the wines. So

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I think I wrote on some talking points. Essentially, we were talking about Rudy

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Kirwan, who was released from jail recently, is back in

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Thailand or Indonesia, where he's from notorious. In fact, he was

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right here in my neighborhood, by the way. He was just down the street. He

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was. And he's now doing events, apparently in St. Singapore, Hong Kong,

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Taiwan, Taipei, etcetera. Well, the other day,

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somebody sent me a picture. It's a real estate developer friend of mine. He was

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in Singapore or Shanghai, I can't

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remember, and was talking about it. And the

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guy says, oh, I know him. And they had dinner with him the next night

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and he said his palate was phenomenal, but let's

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not want to talk about Rudy. He was,

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you know, when they found his house here, they found paper and they found corks,

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they found recipes. And I'm thinking, okay, so

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if you sell a 1945 Romani

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conti, a DRC, and you open it, do

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people even open these things? So they just keep. Oh yeah, I mean, I think,

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yeah. So you're referencing a bottle which is

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sold for the highest price ever, which was the Romney Condy

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45, which sold for

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558,000. I was a happy auctioneer on that day.

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And so, yeah, that one actually. Yeah. Why was it so valuable? Was,

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yeah, obviously it's an incredible wine with a very,

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very rare provenance,

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but it was very rare production. So tiny,

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tiny production from a great vintage. But the reason for the value of that bottle

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was actually because

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the wine came from, directly from Robert

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Drouins Seller and Robert Drouin.

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The Drouin family used to be

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the agent for de mes de la Romney Conti throughout France and Brussels and

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Belgium. And so the bottle literally moved from Domain de la

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Romilly Conti, 5 miles down the road to the Durand family cellar, and

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rested there all its life. So that gave it, that province,

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gave it a special value in terms of,

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of prestige and condition. Would

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that happen, by the way, just off topic of a second, would that happen, for

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instance, from a wine from the cell of Tour d'Argent,

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it's such a direct relationship from

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manufacturer to retailer or restaurant.

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Would the seller of tour d'argent carry such pedigree along with

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it? Sure. I mean, I think wherever you have such

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special problems, I would say that the problems from Robert Droin,

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Seller, in the proximity to Romney Conti and one owner would

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be almost the highest level you could get. But de

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la Tour d'Argent, for sure, if you were selling some treasures from that seller that

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had always rested there and gone directly from producer to their sellers,

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then you have a similar sort of provenance, and then you've also got celebrity

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provenance, which can add value as well. It's

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interesting. 45 DRC

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$558,000 and you

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know, Burgundy was not as interrupted during the

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war by the Nazis as St. Bordeaux was, was it? I think it

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was not kept alone, but it was.

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Well, in fact, funnily enough, I mean, yeah, there

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was obviously, there are stories on both sides, but Maurice

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Drouin, who was Robert Drouen's father, was

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actually, he donated some

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vineyards to the Hospice de Beaune later on in his life.

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And the reason he did that was because during the war, he actually went through

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the tunnels of the Droia cellars that connected to the hospices de

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bone. And the people at the Hospice de Beaune took

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care of him while during the occupation

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of bone. So they bricked up all the cellars and put

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false walls in there. And so, as a thank

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you for really saving his life and looking after him, he then

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donated vineyards to the hospice de bone. So it's an interesting story

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on the relationship there.

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This is what the show's about. And we're going to get to the value of

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blockbar and how, in contemporary times, we're going to be able to

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protect the provenance of a wine. But we're going back to some pretty

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interesting parts and history of wine. I had Mae

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Elian Lanka song on the show at 98 years old, telling the stories,

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and I really think that's what wine's about. I think that this

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story of Durand, in fact, adds to the provenance and

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adds to the terroir of the wine, because these stories

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are rolled forward by generations. And though

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you're not going to taste something specifically in a wine, you

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have to believe that the influence of the stories in this history are

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reflected in the winemaker's philosophy and attitude toward

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what has happened. Oh, for sure. And I think when you do taste

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these old wines, your memory goes back. It's like looking at a painting in

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a museum. Your mind goes back to the conditions of that

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time. And so you think about how the vines were cultivated in

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1945 or before in the 1920s, and

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what equipment were they using in the vineyards, and how about the health of the

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vineyards? And what was the yield in those days compared to what a yield

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would be today. And so I think it's a really interesting

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historical lens to look at

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as. To look at how these wines were produced and how they age so

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brilliantly. And yet these very old wines are still

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enjoyable, consumable and fresh today if they've been stored

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well. Am I wrong in saying

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what I think? I think the bordelaise came up with

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copper sulfate, like, what, in the forties or early late thirties or something.

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Is it safe to say, though, the wines, particularly a burgundy

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of those vintages, let's just say, you know, the mid 20th century,

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were pretty much organic, or pretty

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much. By the way, I think all wine was pretty

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much organic in those days because they were only

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using natural ingredients in the vineyards. So and so. Yeah,

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where I think they went to in the seventies. Yeah,

219
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obviously the seventies was challenging period, because every economy

220
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was struggling and it was very tough times. So

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a lot of wine wasn't selling for very much money, and everyone

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had to cut costs, and they cut costs on their vineyard treatments, on their

223
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labor, on their corks, wherever they could

224
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to produce wine. So really, the seventies was a low point. But one of the

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interesting things, if you sort of pull forward to today, is, I actually think

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that if you're $20 today,

227
00:13:55,024 --> 00:13:58,856
you get a much, much better wine that's ever been produced before. And so

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the health of the vineyards, the knowledge of vineyard

229
00:14:02,256 --> 00:14:06,072
management, of getting good fruit into the winery, and

230
00:14:06,088 --> 00:14:09,640
of vinification, it actually means that today, the

231
00:14:09,672 --> 00:14:12,964
$20 bottle of wine is a lot better than the $20 bottle before.

232
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And the value of wine today,

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00:14:18,584 --> 00:14:22,256
all of us are drinking way better than anyone did before us. So

234
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that's a fascinating question that I often ask winemakers. They're here

235
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because they, and I don't like to talk about soil and

236
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micro exchange of nutrients at the taproots. I mean, that's not

237
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interesting for the listener. I mean, if you are to visualize.

238
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But what is the end

239
00:14:39,744 --> 00:14:43,384
game like? We're going through these processes where we try all these

240
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methodologies. And so the question is, what's the end game? Are we trying to

241
00:14:47,336 --> 00:14:50,760
produce the best wine we can produce from the terroir? Are we trying to produce

242
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a wine that has a certain character? Are we trying to continue to

243
00:14:54,584 --> 00:14:58,376
extract from what we're given? Or are we just trying to

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present what that time and place meant at the time that they

245
00:15:02,152 --> 00:15:05,736
did it? But just. You're saying now the quality of

246
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,200
wine has gone up for the value based on these techniques?

247
00:15:09,392 --> 00:15:12,832
Yes, I think certainly that's the case. And I

248
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think what are you trying to produce is largely dictated

249
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the person producing it. So, yeah, some people definitely want

250
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to produce the most,

251
00:15:24,814 --> 00:15:28,542
the most authentic wine from that particular terroir in

252
00:15:28,558 --> 00:15:32,262
that given year? And that's certainly the

253
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case. I think other people want to put their

254
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imprimatur upon the wine

255
00:15:39,054 --> 00:15:42,596
and want to make a style of wine that maybe overrides the tehois.

256
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:46,032
So I think the person making the wine and the style of wine and what

257
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they're trying to achieve is really the human

258
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element in it. And obviously, from my perspective, I think the

259
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,208
greatest wines are a reflection of a given grape variety

260
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or great blend of grape varieties from a specific

261
00:16:00,712 --> 00:16:04,056
vineyard sites in a given year. And the

262
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,840
transparency of that is, I think, the finest thing

263
00:16:07,952 --> 00:16:11,350
about. About great wine, I think

264
00:16:11,542 --> 00:16:15,114
you might have the opposing views,

265
00:16:15,414 --> 00:16:18,990
the contrasting views that I might have, which is, I have this very romantic

266
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viewpoint of wine and what it should be. And then I have the realization

267
00:16:22,814 --> 00:16:26,526
that it's consumer driven and we have to produce what people want to buy. And

268
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:30,126
that has created all kinds of interesting products

269
00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:34,094
on the shelf these days in various packaging forms and

270
00:16:34,174 --> 00:16:37,896
flavor profiles. But all in all, when it's all said

271
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and done, eventually that glass of wine has to do what it's done for

272
00:16:41,552 --> 00:16:45,376
six to seven to 10,000 years, depending who you ask. And that is,

273
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,684
you know, emote some to tell you something.

274
00:16:49,744 --> 00:16:53,504
Exactly. And, yeah, I mean, I think my children are younger.

275
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They're 23 and 20. And, yeah, I'm sort of telling

276
00:16:57,432 --> 00:17:01,128
them that every day, every glass of wine is something to be

277
00:17:01,216 --> 00:17:04,864
enjoyed. There's something to be learned from it as something to be shared

278
00:17:05,964 --> 00:17:09,444
and something to be enjoyed. And it's one of the most. When I was 18

279
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and thinking about getting into the wine business, I figured out that if I drank

280
00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:16,284
a bottle of wine every day and lived till I was 75, I'd drink 20,000

281
00:17:16,324 --> 00:17:19,708
bottles of wine. I was pretty sure I was going to drink those

282
00:17:19,756 --> 00:17:22,788
20,000 bottles of wine, so I figured I might as well learn something about it

283
00:17:22,796 --> 00:17:26,156
and make them enjoy experiences, and that's worked out really well for

284
00:17:26,180 --> 00:17:30,024
me. Yeah, it's actually really funny, because this show started because

285
00:17:30,344 --> 00:17:34,064
I sat in the tasting room for 35 years at 09:00 in the morning every

286
00:17:34,104 --> 00:17:37,456
Tuesday until 02:00 unless I was out of town or sick.

287
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,176
And these winemakers from all over the world are coming in from Burgundy, from

288
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,912
champagne, from Bordeaux, Napa, and they're telling me stories, you know,

289
00:17:44,928 --> 00:17:48,416
across the tasting table. I'm like, this is really silly. We should just open a

290
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,168
microphone and tell the same stories over again. And that's the birth. The birth,

291
00:17:52,216 --> 00:17:55,972
the birth of the show to tell the story. We're kind

292
00:17:55,988 --> 00:17:59,744
of an opposite spectrum of our careers. I want to be an actor now,

293
00:18:00,444 --> 00:18:04,180
so I'm actually going to acting school. Really? That's

294
00:18:04,212 --> 00:18:07,948
fantastic. I love that. And voice acting. And, you know,

295
00:18:08,076 --> 00:18:11,740
I don't know how I had time to work until I sold the

296
00:18:11,772 --> 00:18:15,588
company. Now I don't have time to do anything. But anyways, I thought that

297
00:18:15,596 --> 00:18:19,412
was anecdotal. This is. How long do

298
00:18:19,428 --> 00:18:22,560
you think? Well, first of all, let's ask this question.

299
00:18:22,632 --> 00:18:26,136
Sotheby's, how confident, on a

300
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,920
percentage basis were you that virtually every wine you sold through

301
00:18:29,952 --> 00:18:33,004
there was what it was purported to be?

302
00:18:34,184 --> 00:18:37,244
I mean, I think we were very draconian. So

303
00:18:38,544 --> 00:18:42,392
if we didn't believe something was either authentic or in

304
00:18:42,408 --> 00:18:46,124
good condition, and we had any doubts about it. We did not sell it.

305
00:18:47,214 --> 00:18:50,982
Are there some things that slipped through the cracks? Yes,

306
00:18:51,038 --> 00:18:54,806
I'm sure there were. There were very, very few. And,

307
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:58,718
yeah, I would. Yeah. If you're an auction house

308
00:18:58,766 --> 00:19:02,494
that is trying to sell wines that

309
00:19:02,534 --> 00:19:06,190
are with verifiable provenance, that

310
00:19:06,222 --> 00:19:09,830
are authentic and they're in good condition, you can have a

311
00:19:09,862 --> 00:19:13,514
very, very high success rate in the 99 plus percent.

312
00:19:14,874 --> 00:19:18,242
Yeah. And obviously, if you have any doubts, you try and

313
00:19:18,258 --> 00:19:21,586
verify the problems or

314
00:19:21,610 --> 00:19:25,330
authenticity. And if you're able to verify it, then you shouldn't sell it.

315
00:19:25,442 --> 00:19:29,194
Now, not every auction house or every fine wine merchant has the same

316
00:19:29,234 --> 00:19:32,954
approach. Some people have an approach which is, hey, look, you're sold as is.

317
00:19:32,994 --> 00:19:35,042
I'm just going to sell it, and if there's a problem, I'll deal with it

318
00:19:35,058 --> 00:19:38,602
later. Yeah. That's a different approach to the

319
00:19:38,618 --> 00:19:42,338
auction business, and that's certainly what some people do. So, I mean, yeah,

320
00:19:42,426 --> 00:19:45,572
from my perspective, yeah, I was, in my days at

321
00:19:45,588 --> 00:19:49,404
Sotheby's, we did everything we could to sell

322
00:19:49,484 --> 00:19:52,224
only authentic wines in good condition.

323
00:19:53,324 --> 00:19:56,224
We went to a house in New Jersey to look at

324
00:19:57,044 --> 00:20:00,828
Eisenhower paintings. I

325
00:20:00,836 --> 00:20:04,484
mean, this guy must have had $50 million worth of paintings, and he was probably

326
00:20:04,524 --> 00:20:08,332
the United States preeminent collector of the painting, of

327
00:20:08,428 --> 00:20:12,072
the painter and. But he invited, I think it was

328
00:20:12,088 --> 00:20:15,232
the north american chairman of Sotheby's or Christie's, I can't remember, I think was

329
00:20:15,248 --> 00:20:18,968
Sotheby's to be the keynote speaker of this dinner. He.

330
00:20:19,016 --> 00:20:22,696
We went to, to sort of support the fact that, yes, these

331
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,080
are probably authentic, or they are authentic, and they were bought through the channels that

332
00:20:26,112 --> 00:20:29,312
we would consider the provenance and we would consider the

333
00:20:29,448 --> 00:20:32,244
availability, what the painting was.

334
00:20:32,584 --> 00:20:36,116
And in the same time, a painting

335
00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:39,164
from the same artist came up at a local auction house here at a very

336
00:20:39,204 --> 00:20:42,972
reputable auction house. And the auctioneer, who's a friend of

337
00:20:42,988 --> 00:20:46,364
mine for years, you know, he couldn't and

338
00:20:46,404 --> 00:20:50,224
wouldn't necessarily authenticate the

339
00:20:50,724 --> 00:20:54,476
painter, the painting itself. He just

340
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:58,044
said this. We're under the impression that's what it is. It came from this estate.

341
00:20:58,084 --> 00:21:01,780
And that's all I can guarantee is the provenance or

342
00:21:01,812 --> 00:21:05,638
the authenticity of the painting. When I brought that up with the

343
00:21:05,766 --> 00:21:09,414
investor in New Jersey, I told him, he goes,

344
00:21:09,574 --> 00:21:13,234
I didn't even finish. He says it's a terrible fake.

345
00:21:14,094 --> 00:21:17,766
So he already knew across the country that this

346
00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:20,502
painting was for sale, was coming to auction, and he already knew it was a

347
00:21:20,518 --> 00:21:24,350
fake. Did you have that kind of insight when you

348
00:21:24,382 --> 00:21:28,158
were bringing items into review or to understand, or that. I

349
00:21:28,166 --> 00:21:31,890
mean, how many 45, for instance, 1945 drcs are there?

350
00:21:32,042 --> 00:21:35,490
But was there any sort of. I mean, I mean, yeah, there are. There are

351
00:21:35,522 --> 00:21:39,114
obvious fakes which one can see with a naked eye. Some. One

352
00:21:39,154 --> 00:21:42,530
can, some can, yeah, you can see 10ft away. And

353
00:21:42,562 --> 00:21:45,974
obviously some you use a loop to look at the label

354
00:21:47,434 --> 00:21:51,010
and some are very easy. And generally

355
00:21:51,042 --> 00:21:54,762
speaking, when you get counterfeit wines, you know, unless

356
00:21:54,818 --> 00:21:58,414
it's a great collector who's perhaps been given a few bottles by other people,

357
00:21:59,424 --> 00:22:03,176
they tend to source wines from a concentrated number of people. And

358
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,024
so if some people source wines from people

359
00:22:07,064 --> 00:22:10,444
who are selling counterfeit wines, you'd find an abundance of them.

360
00:22:10,824 --> 00:22:13,844
And that was relatively easy to spot.

361
00:22:14,344 --> 00:22:18,040
Obviously, if you've got a great collection of authentic wines with a few scattered

362
00:22:18,072 --> 00:22:21,552
in, more difficult to do them

363
00:22:21,648 --> 00:22:24,244
until you do the bottle by bottle inventory.

364
00:22:24,984 --> 00:22:28,480
But you can normally spot where the counterfeits are. Obviously,

365
00:22:28,512 --> 00:22:32,216
counterfeits got increasingly more sophisticated today, but it's

366
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,088
the conversation between the provenance, where the wines have been bought from

367
00:22:36,176 --> 00:22:39,792
and sourced from, the appearance of the wines, the story about the

368
00:22:39,808 --> 00:22:43,184
wine, the behavior of the collector. So it does

369
00:22:43,224 --> 00:22:46,520
become pretty obvious to a seasoned

370
00:22:46,552 --> 00:22:49,724
professional that what you're dealing with, what to look out for

371
00:22:50,084 --> 00:22:53,852
and to avoid those issues. So I would say, yes, there's, you

372
00:22:53,868 --> 00:22:57,572
know, it's. Yeah, for a seasoned professional, it's

373
00:22:57,708 --> 00:23:01,172
not that difficult. Is it the same type of buyer that

374
00:23:01,188 --> 00:23:04,908
would collect? And I've said this before on the show,

375
00:23:04,996 --> 00:23:08,404
I just learned that I'm a collector because when the gentleman bought my

376
00:23:08,444 --> 00:23:12,244
company, he did not buy all the stuff I had collected during COVID And I

377
00:23:12,244 --> 00:23:16,036
have some wonderful grand cruz and some classified growth Bordeaux and all kinds of

378
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,508
really cool stuff. And so I had to find a home for it because I

379
00:23:19,516 --> 00:23:22,854
don't. Never had a seller at my house, I had a warehouse full of wine.

380
00:23:23,274 --> 00:23:27,106
But is it the same kind of buyer that might show up

381
00:23:27,130 --> 00:23:30,738
at a Sotheby's wine, the spirits auction, that would utilize

382
00:23:30,826 --> 00:23:34,014
blockbar to authenticate, or at least to

383
00:23:34,434 --> 00:23:38,106
have confidence in the provenance of the wine and

384
00:23:38,130 --> 00:23:41,534
spirit. So I think that's an interesting question.

385
00:23:42,954 --> 00:23:46,570
The buyers are skewing younger because

386
00:23:46,762 --> 00:23:50,362
every. Every seller of fine wine and

387
00:23:50,378 --> 00:23:53,134
spirits needs younger buyers. And so

388
00:23:53,994 --> 00:23:57,514
blockbusters. One of the reasons why I joined blockbar was

389
00:23:57,554 --> 00:24:01,394
because I dealt with problems, authenticity and condition issues every

390
00:24:01,434 --> 00:24:03,774
day for 32 years. And so

391
00:24:04,634 --> 00:24:07,054
Blockbuster's model is to use blockchain

392
00:24:08,114 --> 00:24:11,454
to provide a guaranteed

393
00:24:12,194 --> 00:24:15,530
chain. Blockbar only sells directly from producer to

394
00:24:15,562 --> 00:24:19,282
consumer and is the direct link between the producer and the

395
00:24:19,298 --> 00:24:22,930
consumer. So using blockchain is validated that

396
00:24:23,042 --> 00:24:26,586
the bottles, the case, the cask, comes directly from the producer

397
00:24:26,770 --> 00:24:30,450
and it gets sold directly to the consumer. And then, because blockchain is

398
00:24:30,482 --> 00:24:34,306
immutable and you can add onto it every time there's a transaction. So if

399
00:24:34,330 --> 00:24:38,114
someone gifts a bottle or a case or a cask, or sells it

400
00:24:38,194 --> 00:24:41,846
to another person, then that transaction is recorded on the blockchain.

401
00:24:41,970 --> 00:24:44,434
And while the bottled case costs remain

402
00:24:47,254 --> 00:24:50,838
in the ecosystem of blockbar, then obviously there's guaranteed

403
00:24:50,886 --> 00:24:54,206
provenance and traceability and transparency back to the

404
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:57,918
producer. So in terms of who's interested in that, I think

405
00:24:57,966 --> 00:25:01,154
everyone's interested in it. I think, obviously,

406
00:25:01,574 --> 00:25:04,726
the people who already have a lot of wine and already have wine in their

407
00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:08,526
cellars, maybe they're towards the

408
00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:12,338
end of their collecting life and would be less inclined to use blockbuster. I

409
00:25:12,346 --> 00:25:16,130
think it particularly appeals to the younger collectors who are digitally

410
00:25:16,162 --> 00:25:19,810
savvy, who don't

411
00:25:19,842 --> 00:25:23,330
necessarily want to store their own collections of wines and spirits,

412
00:25:23,442 --> 00:25:26,734
because they don't know necessary where they live in two or five years time.

413
00:25:28,194 --> 00:25:32,002
And for them, we take care of all the storage and

414
00:25:32,018 --> 00:25:35,454
the insurance and the security of that,

415
00:25:35,834 --> 00:25:39,386
and then they have a guaranteed traceability on the provenance and

416
00:25:39,410 --> 00:25:42,814
the authenticity. And so I think it's

417
00:25:43,554 --> 00:25:47,282
90% of our audience and 70% of our buyers, and

418
00:25:47,418 --> 00:25:51,066
millennial and Gen Z. So, yeah, I think it

419
00:25:51,090 --> 00:25:54,922
is. There's definitely a crossover in the marketplace. And

420
00:25:54,938 --> 00:25:58,506
I think as things go forward, if you look at Bordeaux on

421
00:25:58,530 --> 00:26:01,894
Premiere Bordeaux Futures, anything sold in cask,

422
00:26:02,714 --> 00:26:06,530
the blockchain and NFT model is a lot more efficient.

423
00:26:06,562 --> 00:26:10,404
It gives liquidity from the day one. If you were to buy through a traditional

424
00:26:10,444 --> 00:26:14,036
channel Bordeaux one, primo futures, essentially, you are

425
00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:17,564
illiquid for the first two years until you take physical delivery of the wines.

426
00:26:17,724 --> 00:26:21,468
Under the blockbuster model, you buying an NFT, which is redeemable for

427
00:26:21,476 --> 00:26:25,196
the wines, and that NFT can be traded the next day, it can be gifted

428
00:26:25,220 --> 00:26:28,884
the next day, etcetera. So it provides liquidity

429
00:26:28,924 --> 00:26:32,724
in that process. You can have fun with selling barrels and costs

430
00:26:32,764 --> 00:26:36,396
and fractionalizing them, and further fractionalizing them until they're

431
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:40,188
bottled, and then converting the nfts for the cost

432
00:26:40,316 --> 00:26:43,772
into bottles. So you can have a lot of fun with gamification and the

433
00:26:43,788 --> 00:26:47,452
evolution of it. And so I

434
00:26:47,468 --> 00:26:51,212
think it obviously appeals to a younger, digitally savvy

435
00:26:51,268 --> 00:26:55,036
audience. But for me, I've just moved my wines from New

436
00:26:55,060 --> 00:26:57,984
York down to Florida. I relocated to Miami

437
00:26:58,564 --> 00:27:02,332
and I now physically had to move my wines down here and now

438
00:27:02,348 --> 00:27:05,812
I need to physically go through them because I won't keep them all. I'll sell

439
00:27:05,868 --> 00:27:09,684
some and I'll definitely consume some and I'll move some wines

440
00:27:09,724 --> 00:27:13,572
around to different places, but I have to physically do that. I

441
00:27:13,588 --> 00:27:17,180
would much prefer to do it through my phone or through my

442
00:27:17,212 --> 00:27:20,704
laptop. And so I think it definitely appeals to

443
00:27:21,604 --> 00:27:24,864
an audience who wants the security and convenience

444
00:27:25,924 --> 00:27:29,556
of buying wines and spirits. Obviously, it's not for bottles that are going to be

445
00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:33,252
consumed tonight, but it is for bottles that can be collected

446
00:27:33,268 --> 00:27:34,944
and consumed at a later date.

447
00:27:37,284 --> 00:27:41,004
Just in itself. The idea of NFT, and I think you probably

448
00:27:41,084 --> 00:27:44,516
have arrived at the fact that baby boomers like

449
00:27:44,540 --> 00:27:48,236
myself may not even understand what you're talking about, that the idea of

450
00:27:48,260 --> 00:27:52,092
blockchain is a digital cloud that no one really gets. I get

451
00:27:52,108 --> 00:27:54,104
it. I understand what it is, but

452
00:27:55,604 --> 00:27:59,124
it's also yours. I mean, you've got so many pieces of moving parts.

453
00:27:59,284 --> 00:28:03,020
Consumption's down amongst millennials and gen zs for alcohol and

454
00:28:03,052 --> 00:28:06,730
fine wine, but you've found a niche that they understand, so this

455
00:28:06,762 --> 00:28:09,866
might be very good for them. I think it's a great idea,

456
00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:11,774
personally, but,

457
00:28:13,434 --> 00:28:16,850
yeah, the idea of NFT and blockchain is probably foreign to most

458
00:28:16,882 --> 00:28:20,666
people. Yes. I mean, well, I'm 63.

459
00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:24,546
I'm a boomer. I'm 60, not 63 yet. I'm born in

460
00:28:24,570 --> 00:28:25,414
63.

461
00:28:29,714 --> 00:28:32,786
I've easily understood the platform for

462
00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:35,854
blockbuster when it first came out when I was at Sotheby's.

463
00:28:36,234 --> 00:28:39,810
And I have a digital wallet. Nothing is intimidating.

464
00:28:39,882 --> 00:28:43,370
It's actually very easy to use. We also take credit

465
00:28:43,402 --> 00:28:47,014
cards and they accept credit card work,

466
00:28:47,394 --> 00:28:50,930
transfer payments. So it's really not that

467
00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:54,594
confusing. The blockchain provides the

468
00:28:54,634 --> 00:28:58,014
record, the ledger, which is immutable. The NFT

469
00:28:58,674 --> 00:29:02,244
has a smart contract attached to it which enables secure, fast

470
00:29:02,434 --> 00:29:06,264
transactions, and it acts as a token, which

471
00:29:06,304 --> 00:29:10,120
is that token can be gifted, it can

472
00:29:10,152 --> 00:29:13,984
be sold, or you can redeem it and you get the physical goods. So every

473
00:29:14,024 --> 00:29:17,784
NFT we sell is asset backed, so the value of the NFT is the asset

474
00:29:17,824 --> 00:29:21,432
behind it, so the bottle decays the cask. We don't sell any

475
00:29:21,488 --> 00:29:25,176
NFTs that are not, that are just digitally native and

476
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,040
that's where they've been sort of criticized. So, yeah, I think

477
00:29:29,072 --> 00:29:32,838
from my perspective, yeah, it is a new direct from

478
00:29:33,006 --> 00:29:36,854
producer consumer channel that has some

479
00:29:36,894 --> 00:29:40,394
benefits, not just in liquidity and the traceability

480
00:29:41,614 --> 00:29:45,102
about it. Essentially, if you look at someone like Berry Brothers and Rudd in the

481
00:29:45,118 --> 00:29:48,870
UK, they've been selling wine since 1698. And

482
00:29:48,982 --> 00:29:52,230
you could be buying your Bordeaux futures or on premiere through

483
00:29:52,262 --> 00:29:55,878
them all. What we're really doing to that process is

484
00:29:55,926 --> 00:29:59,544
adding, you know, guaranteed provenance, authenticity and traceability

485
00:30:00,124 --> 00:30:03,828
and transparency to the process. You look at Sherry Lehman,

486
00:30:03,996 --> 00:30:07,444
the wine merchant in New York, that, sadly, no

487
00:30:07,484 --> 00:30:11,084
more. The buyers who are most

488
00:30:11,124 --> 00:30:14,892
disappointed in that were the ones who bought borrower futures from

489
00:30:14,908 --> 00:30:18,684
the 1516 1718 vintage and never

490
00:30:18,724 --> 00:30:22,500
received their wines. That wouldn't happen with a blockchain model. So I think

491
00:30:22,532 --> 00:30:25,972
there are definite benefits to it. And there's an audience which is

492
00:30:25,988 --> 00:30:29,508
growing. One of the things you mentioned, which was about

493
00:30:29,596 --> 00:30:33,100
the millennials and Gen Z consuming less, I think that is definitely

494
00:30:33,132 --> 00:30:36,660
true. Certainly less than the boomer generation. There's more

495
00:30:36,692 --> 00:30:40,516
moderation, there's more abstinence, there's more alternatives with

496
00:30:40,620 --> 00:30:44,388
marijuana, mushrooms, low and no, etcetera. And so

497
00:30:44,516 --> 00:30:47,548
I think every wine and spirits producer really

498
00:30:47,636 --> 00:30:51,396
wants to reach the millennial Gen

499
00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:54,676
Z audience because they're going to need many more of them to participate in the

500
00:30:54,700 --> 00:30:58,406
audience because they are going to consume less of wine and spirits.

501
00:30:58,460 --> 00:31:01,254
So I think the audience is very, very attractive

502
00:31:01,874 --> 00:31:05,614
to every producer of high quality wine and spirits.

503
00:31:06,274 --> 00:31:09,934
I think that, like I said earlier on the show, that

504
00:31:12,154 --> 00:31:15,674
consumption ebbs and flows. I mean, we're in this process of non

505
00:31:15,714 --> 00:31:18,858
alcoholic, which I don't understand. I've tasted some. They're

506
00:31:18,946 --> 00:31:22,614
palatable. I don't understand why you bother, but that's just me.

507
00:31:23,034 --> 00:31:26,514
Canned wines, they're working

508
00:31:27,094 --> 00:31:30,878
at Cornell University on extending the life of the food grade lining

509
00:31:30,926 --> 00:31:34,074
for a can. And so I'm not sure what value that has.

510
00:31:34,774 --> 00:31:37,726
I think it ebbs and flows. It always has. When I was stocking my dad's

511
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:41,574
shelves in the seventies, we had one point five s of Gallo

512
00:31:41,614 --> 00:31:45,270
Rhine wine in red burgundy. That was hot. Then

513
00:31:45,342 --> 00:31:49,062
we had wine coolers, and then we had Boone's farm. And it

514
00:31:49,078 --> 00:31:52,736
just ebbs and flows. We're just going through those different cycles.

515
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,424
And I do believe that the millennials and the Gen zs and anybody after

516
00:31:56,464 --> 00:32:00,224
them will eventually land on this concept, that there's something

517
00:32:00,264 --> 00:32:03,944
very valuable to the proper glass of wine, an honest

518
00:32:03,984 --> 00:32:07,760
glass of wine and an honest scotch, or properly made

519
00:32:07,792 --> 00:32:11,064
bourbon that will transcend all of the sort of

520
00:32:11,104 --> 00:32:14,884
social, you know, irregularities that go on in our industry.

521
00:32:15,864 --> 00:32:19,546
But how does, you know, you said something very

522
00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:23,226
interesting. Because I just saw on Netflix or something, this story

523
00:32:23,290 --> 00:32:26,882
about this Northern California wine shop. I had not heard this story before.

524
00:32:26,978 --> 00:32:30,570
Probably grouped in the Rudy type things and the Sausalito warehouse

525
00:32:30,602 --> 00:32:34,386
burning and those things where he was selling out of a shop,

526
00:32:34,450 --> 00:32:38,122
had a wine shop, and he was getting money for all kinds of on

527
00:32:38,138 --> 00:32:41,586
Premier Bordeaux and all kinds of futures on other wines

528
00:32:41,730 --> 00:32:45,102
and never buying them. This would completely

529
00:32:45,158 --> 00:32:48,542
circumvent that problem. Right. Once you get this

530
00:32:48,678 --> 00:32:52,074
NFT, you own that wine, it exists.

531
00:32:53,174 --> 00:32:56,862
How does that bottle start? Are you getting it right from the supplier and the

532
00:32:56,878 --> 00:33:00,574
manufacturer? Yes, we're only producer direct to consumer,

533
00:33:00,614 --> 00:33:04,390
so every single bottle comes directly from

534
00:33:04,422 --> 00:33:07,990
the producer and the NFT is minted from the producer's

535
00:33:08,022 --> 00:33:11,738
wallet. So. And then as soon as it is. So

536
00:33:11,786 --> 00:33:15,410
if it's in bottled, we receive our warehouse and we store it. If it is

537
00:33:15,442 --> 00:33:19,290
in cask or barrel, then the producer stores it

538
00:33:19,362 --> 00:33:23,050
at the winery or distillery until it's bottled and then we take possession of it.

539
00:33:23,162 --> 00:33:26,930
But because it's producer direct, then no producer is going to work

540
00:33:26,962 --> 00:33:30,634
with us if we're not paying our bills and doing an honest job. So.

541
00:33:30,714 --> 00:33:34,546
And so you have that guarantee that it is direct from producer, so

542
00:33:34,610 --> 00:33:38,444
it fixes the provenance and authenticity issues and the fact

543
00:33:38,484 --> 00:33:41,908
that it's physically available. And so,

544
00:33:41,956 --> 00:33:45,500
yes, I think you're referring to a business. It was called premier crew.

545
00:33:45,692 --> 00:33:48,464
Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Which was. Yeah, which

546
00:33:49,604 --> 00:33:53,180
they were, unfortunately, did not deliver on a lot of wine

547
00:33:53,292 --> 00:33:56,944
at the end of their lifespan. But that wouldn't have.

548
00:33:58,444 --> 00:34:02,116
Indeed. And some. And some other experiences along the way. Good

549
00:34:02,140 --> 00:34:05,516
looking women. Exactly.

550
00:34:05,580 --> 00:34:09,276
But. So if I'm interested in taking advantage of

551
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,824
blockbar and I want a McAllen, you know,

552
00:34:13,164 --> 00:34:16,420
I don't know, all I have here is 25, so it's really. Maybe. Well, that's

553
00:34:16,452 --> 00:34:20,164
worth it. Just a couple thousand dollars worth of scotch. I would want to protect

554
00:34:20,204 --> 00:34:23,876
that. I would get it from McAllen through

555
00:34:23,940 --> 00:34:27,780
you as a. As. As the vendor. Yes. Yes. So, I mean,

556
00:34:27,812 --> 00:34:31,580
essentially, we would have to have a relationship with McCallum. McCallum would sell

557
00:34:31,612 --> 00:34:35,395
it to us on our platform and then we

558
00:34:35,419 --> 00:34:38,331
would store it for you until you want to redeem it and take possession of

559
00:34:38,347 --> 00:34:41,995
it. When you want to redeem it, you let us know where you want it

560
00:34:42,019 --> 00:34:45,583
delivered to. Essentially, it gets delivered to you and the NFT gets burned.

561
00:34:46,083 --> 00:34:49,303
And so we don't take any wines from the secondary market.

562
00:34:49,723 --> 00:34:53,555
And so we're not a secondary marketplace. We

563
00:34:53,579 --> 00:34:57,123
take wines only direct from the producer and then we do have a secondary

564
00:34:57,163 --> 00:35:00,339
marketplace if someone wants to sell their

565
00:35:00,371 --> 00:35:04,150
bottles or their case cost. Yeah, well, it's still

566
00:35:04,182 --> 00:35:07,790
in our possession or still the distillery, but once it's left

567
00:35:07,822 --> 00:35:11,190
our ecosystem, we don't validate any further. Right.

568
00:35:11,222 --> 00:35:15,054
So I want to redeem my NFT, I get my bottle of 25 McAllen.

569
00:35:15,094 --> 00:35:18,874
And now that all bets are off at that point. Exactly. Yep.

570
00:35:19,614 --> 00:35:23,238
But yeah, then you mentioned earlier you can gift it. I could sell it.

571
00:35:23,366 --> 00:35:26,934
The NFT. Yes. And the buyer, that NFC has complete

572
00:35:26,974 --> 00:35:30,656
100% confidence that this is, this bottle exists and it's

573
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,456
in possession of blockbuster. Yes, correct. And so, yeah,

574
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,080
and so when you do a transaction, when you sell due to the smart

575
00:35:38,112 --> 00:35:41,912
contract, the transaction is. Yeah,

576
00:35:42,008 --> 00:35:45,808
it happens all online and in real time. So there

577
00:35:45,856 --> 00:35:49,592
you see the NFT transferring from. If I owned

578
00:35:49,608 --> 00:35:53,416
it and you bought it, I would see the NFT being transferred to you.

579
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,846
It would leave my wallet. It would go to your wallet. The

580
00:35:56,870 --> 00:36:00,662
funds would come to me. So the way it works on

581
00:36:00,678 --> 00:36:04,310
the secondary marketplaces is the blockbuster charges 5%.

582
00:36:04,422 --> 00:36:08,102
Sorry, 10%. We charge 10% for sale, 5%

583
00:36:08,158 --> 00:36:11,846
goes directly back to the producer and 5% goes to blockbuster, which

584
00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:15,686
covers our storage, insurance costs. And that's

585
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:19,390
all automated. So you can literally, the smart

586
00:36:19,422 --> 00:36:22,838
contract takes care of all of that. And so it's a very efficient and fast

587
00:36:22,886 --> 00:36:26,670
process. Same with, if you're gifting something, it's the same process you just gifted

588
00:36:26,702 --> 00:36:30,544
someone. They accepted and the transaction automatically updates on the blockchain.

589
00:36:31,764 --> 00:36:35,492
Fascinating concept. And very. I mean,

590
00:36:35,588 --> 00:36:38,824
it solves the problem. And I was just thinking as we were talking,

591
00:36:39,364 --> 00:36:42,644
the whole issue in America with three tier

592
00:36:42,764 --> 00:36:44,984
process for alcohol

593
00:36:46,164 --> 00:36:49,796
lends itself to how many hands are going to be touching a product

594
00:36:49,860 --> 00:36:53,340
like this and potentially add to a level of

595
00:36:53,372 --> 00:36:57,102
fraudulent buying. I mean, I'm going to guess that if I'm at R and

596
00:36:57,118 --> 00:37:00,246
DC and I'm getting my McAllen, or if I'm at southern, I'm getting my

597
00:37:00,270 --> 00:37:03,990
opus. Pretty reasonable expectation that

598
00:37:04,062 --> 00:37:07,902
the wines of what it is, but it's not been

599
00:37:07,958 --> 00:37:11,686
traced. It's possible that somebody interrupted it and

600
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:15,566
did something that made it fake. And what we're seeing more

601
00:37:15,590 --> 00:37:19,150
and more is nowadays there may be a six bottle case

602
00:37:19,302 --> 00:37:22,826
and maybe one bottle is counterfeit and five are

603
00:37:22,850 --> 00:37:26,330
good. And so someone along the chain is doing something. So the

604
00:37:26,362 --> 00:37:29,922
traceability and transparency is super

605
00:37:29,978 --> 00:37:33,610
important. And you've also, obviously in that three tier system, you've also got

606
00:37:33,642 --> 00:37:37,386
condition to be worried about because when the wines

607
00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:41,002
are moving around, how are they moving? What temperature? I've moved down to

608
00:37:41,018 --> 00:37:44,106
Florida. It ain't cool down here.

609
00:37:44,290 --> 00:37:48,066
No, that was a very english thing to

610
00:37:48,090 --> 00:37:51,184
say, too. It ain't cool. Well,

611
00:37:51,264 --> 00:37:54,360
actually, in my 35 years of buying and selling wine

612
00:37:54,392 --> 00:37:57,912
monthly, I did buy a truckload from

613
00:37:57,968 --> 00:38:01,680
Paso that was a it was an aged wine, so

614
00:38:01,712 --> 00:38:05,552
it was a little more sensitive. And I, fortunately,

615
00:38:05,608 --> 00:38:09,312
I usually did not taste wines that were domestic

616
00:38:09,368 --> 00:38:12,896
because I figured they're only coming down the street, so big deal. But most imports

617
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,152
I would taste when they landed to make sure, you know, whatever, I got what

618
00:38:16,168 --> 00:38:19,666
I ordered, but I decided to taste this one. And it was. I tasted ten

619
00:38:19,690 --> 00:38:23,362
bottles from ten different pallets, and they were all shot. They were all

620
00:38:23,418 --> 00:38:26,946
had turned. And it turns out that they had stopped on the

621
00:38:26,970 --> 00:38:30,586
freeway in 120 degree heat or something. And then, of course, inside the

622
00:38:30,610 --> 00:38:34,162
container, it's more like 200. And it just baked it all. And thank

623
00:38:34,178 --> 00:38:37,454
goodness, contractually, I was not obligated to take the wine, but

624
00:38:37,954 --> 00:38:41,594
that could happen. Yeah. Yeah. And it's amazing

625
00:38:41,754 --> 00:38:45,058
how many places still today and, yeah. How many warehouses

626
00:38:45,106 --> 00:38:48,884
and transport vehicles are not temperature controlled. And so,

627
00:38:48,924 --> 00:38:52,764
yeah, the common practice, certainly

628
00:38:52,804 --> 00:38:56,292
what we developed at Sotheby's was we would put temperature

629
00:38:56,348 --> 00:38:59,980
loggers in different cases, in containers

630
00:39:00,172 --> 00:39:03,904
and in shipments around the country to make sure that

631
00:39:04,244 --> 00:39:07,104
we could then get the readings of the temperature

632
00:39:09,204 --> 00:39:12,900
of bottles in transit. And, yeah, as you know,

633
00:39:12,932 --> 00:39:16,724
it's just like, yeah, very hot heat can

634
00:39:16,764 --> 00:39:20,420
damage a wine pretty quickly. Obviously, you drink it

635
00:39:20,612 --> 00:39:24,284
immediately, little damage, but it will age much,

636
00:39:24,324 --> 00:39:27,748
much faster, and it's not a very good drink

637
00:39:27,796 --> 00:39:30,624
after a little while. How does someone

638
00:39:31,644 --> 00:39:34,796
learn about block bar? I'm a consumer.

639
00:39:34,980 --> 00:39:38,532
Well, one of my great customers has an

640
00:39:38,548 --> 00:39:42,266
incredible collection of scotches, japanese scotches, in his. I

641
00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:45,962
see. He would love this. He's always looking for something

642
00:39:46,138 --> 00:39:49,770
interesting, and particularly in the burgundy side

643
00:39:49,802 --> 00:39:53,534
of the wine world. But how does somebody learn about blockbar? How do

644
00:39:54,234 --> 00:39:57,314
they go to mission wines and spirits and buy their McAllen?

645
00:39:57,474 --> 00:40:01,226
So blockbar, it's an online site. So we have,

646
00:40:01,250 --> 00:40:05,002
it's blockbar.com. and yeah, we have an faq there. Super

647
00:40:05,058 --> 00:40:08,454
easy to use. We also have an app which you can download.

648
00:40:09,094 --> 00:40:12,902
And then we have a concierge service. So we're pretty responsive. We're a

649
00:40:12,918 --> 00:40:16,334
young, young startup, so we're pretty energetic and

650
00:40:16,374 --> 00:40:20,086
enthusiastic. And so people can always email me@jamielockbar.com.

651
00:40:20,110 --> 00:40:23,394
j A M I e

652
00:40:24,614 --> 00:40:28,222
or just go to the website. And it's really very

653
00:40:28,278 --> 00:40:31,806
self explanatory. There's nothing very complicated about it. You can search or

654
00:40:31,830 --> 00:40:35,622
filter for different producers, different products, you can

655
00:40:35,638 --> 00:40:39,406
look at the secondary marketplace, you can make offers on things. And if there's

656
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:41,154
anything confusing, we just put live.

657
00:40:42,854 --> 00:40:46,246
Yes, on Monday a sale with Shadow

658
00:40:46,270 --> 00:40:49,870
d'Esclan of their top of the range wine Garrus and we're selling

659
00:40:50,062 --> 00:40:53,814
one barrel, which is split into four quarters, and so

660
00:40:53,854 --> 00:40:57,342
people can bid on a quarter barrel. And then it's in a

661
00:40:57,358 --> 00:41:01,206
leaderboard technology, which is sequential auction.

662
00:41:01,350 --> 00:41:05,118
And then the auction will close in a couple of

663
00:41:05,126 --> 00:41:08,830
weeks time, and then the buyers in June get to choose their

664
00:41:08,862 --> 00:41:12,606
different bottle sizes. They can have them bottled in bottles, magnums, three litres or

665
00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:16,470
six liter bottles. And then during the harvest,

666
00:41:16,502 --> 00:41:20,198
they can go and visit our chateau d'Esclan and have a tasting,

667
00:41:20,246 --> 00:41:23,566
lunch and tour, etcetera. So there's an experience thrown as

668
00:41:23,590 --> 00:41:27,406
well. Yep. The

669
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:30,766
platform enables us to do some fun and interesting things and also

670
00:41:30,910 --> 00:41:34,706
physically connect the bars with the producers through a

671
00:41:34,730 --> 00:41:38,426
series of events. Seems like it would be

672
00:41:38,530 --> 00:41:41,674
really the only way. Particularly this

673
00:41:41,714 --> 00:41:45,482
collection. This gentleman I'm talking about, he put your thumb on the door and

674
00:41:45,498 --> 00:41:49,154
the door opens, because it's biometric. And all the things that go along with collecting

675
00:41:49,234 --> 00:41:51,374
screaming eagle and first World War does,

676
00:41:52,714 --> 00:41:55,810
you'd almost want that. Actually, it's kind of interesting,

677
00:41:55,922 --> 00:41:59,664
because when I bring it up, I don't get a lot of

678
00:42:00,884 --> 00:42:04,452
head nodding when I say, look, you need to understand the provenance of this wine.

679
00:42:04,628 --> 00:42:08,300
I do business with a distributor here called Duclos. He

680
00:42:08,372 --> 00:42:11,904
charges a little more as part of the Moex group. Exactly.

681
00:42:13,044 --> 00:42:16,604
I pay a little more for the Bordeaux, but I'm very confident that it's

682
00:42:16,644 --> 00:42:20,292
direct from the winery and that as a distributor in

683
00:42:20,308 --> 00:42:23,464
Los Angeles, I can rely on this authenticity.

684
00:42:23,864 --> 00:42:27,536
But if I'm a consumer and I don't have access to that, I would

685
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,336
only want my high end wines and spirits to go

686
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,408
through a process like that. And if I do bring them in to drink or

687
00:42:34,416 --> 00:42:37,684
to have my cellar, I take responsibility. But until then,

688
00:42:38,064 --> 00:42:41,644
I have complete confidence of what it is. What's going on with these?

689
00:42:42,184 --> 00:42:45,712
I don't know. They're not three d and some are augmented

690
00:42:45,768 --> 00:42:49,560
reality, but they have those sort of. I guess they are

691
00:42:49,592 --> 00:42:52,856
3d stickers. It seems like that has opportunity for.

692
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,380
Fraudulent use as well, NFC stickers and

693
00:42:56,532 --> 00:42:59,664
RFI. I think people are using different

694
00:43:00,084 --> 00:43:03,744
methods of traceability, and the wineries are embedding

695
00:43:04,524 --> 00:43:07,784
different technologies into their labels, bottles, capsules,

696
00:43:08,444 --> 00:43:12,052
to secure their products. And so I would

697
00:43:12,148 --> 00:43:15,340
commend all of the activities

698
00:43:15,412 --> 00:43:18,424
around using technology to try and

699
00:43:19,604 --> 00:43:23,024
maintain provenance, maintain the integrity

700
00:43:23,444 --> 00:43:25,904
of the bottles and their authenticity.

701
00:43:27,034 --> 00:43:30,570
Yeah, at the end of the day, I think they're all

702
00:43:30,602 --> 00:43:34,346
useful. Obviously, from my perspective, the

703
00:43:34,370 --> 00:43:37,906
most useful is no, it comes directly from the producer and goes directly to the

704
00:43:37,930 --> 00:43:41,570
consumer. However, many times it trades under the. Blogba

705
00:43:41,602 --> 00:43:45,306
model, having this conversation is making my mind go back to

706
00:43:45,330 --> 00:43:48,826
my seller. I got a couple of 2015

707
00:43:48,890 --> 00:43:51,826
margots there. I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't remember where I bought them

708
00:43:51,850 --> 00:43:54,974
from. But I think that's

709
00:43:56,144 --> 00:43:59,880
the old fashioned way to do it, is make sure

710
00:43:59,912 --> 00:44:03,672
you trust the person who's selling it to you. And if

711
00:44:03,688 --> 00:44:07,360
a deal looks too good to be true, it probably is. Probably

712
00:44:07,432 --> 00:44:11,144
is. So wine spirits, which is. Well,

713
00:44:11,184 --> 00:44:14,960
this is Gen Z and millennials mostly. I'm going to guess that distilled spirits are

714
00:44:14,992 --> 00:44:18,696
probably lead the inventory count, the SKU count for

715
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,536
blockbar. So Blockbar was founded by the

716
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,808
founders, the owners and principals of duty Free

717
00:44:25,856 --> 00:44:29,312
Americas, which is the largest free business in the Americas.

718
00:44:29,488 --> 00:44:33,044
And so that business is 99% spirit. So it was founded

719
00:44:33,384 --> 00:44:36,964
based around solving the problem for spirits.

720
00:44:37,464 --> 00:44:40,644
My background is really in the wine business.

721
00:44:42,264 --> 00:44:45,752
And so to date, we are probably

722
00:44:45,808 --> 00:44:49,336
98% spirits. And going forward, we'll be

723
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,828
launching more and more wines from September onwards.

724
00:44:52,976 --> 00:44:56,212
And, yeah, our aim is we'd love to get to around

725
00:44:56,268 --> 00:44:59,668
50% spirits, 50% wine. Yeah, the market will actually

726
00:44:59,716 --> 00:45:03,236
determine where we end up on that. On that. But that's all, that's our

727
00:45:03,260 --> 00:45:06,704
intention. You know, the question always, I never

728
00:45:07,364 --> 00:45:11,052
ask it regularly because I don't understand it, but I don't know how there's more

729
00:45:11,108 --> 00:45:14,684
room for high end spirits and

730
00:45:14,804 --> 00:45:18,604
get. And these guys are getting. Building the brand, getting

731
00:45:18,644 --> 00:45:22,276
their placements and selling offer, you know, lots of money. Look at

732
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,876
dow one for a billion dollars, or in that range, George

733
00:45:25,900 --> 00:45:29,304
Clooney's tequila. I'm like, how is there room,

734
00:45:30,364 --> 00:45:33,868
how's your differential room in the world of collecting

735
00:45:33,996 --> 00:45:37,636
spirits that it's created such demand? I just.

736
00:45:37,820 --> 00:45:41,304
I'm just old fashioned, I guess. I think the proliferation of

737
00:45:41,804 --> 00:45:45,624
producers is going to. Yeah, it's going to rescind

738
00:45:46,204 --> 00:45:49,984
because I don't think the market can sustain so many different producers.

739
00:45:50,814 --> 00:45:54,230
Yeah, but I think the interesting thing about the millennials and the Gen Z

740
00:45:54,342 --> 00:45:58,102
audience is that they are willing to premiumize. They do want to

741
00:45:58,118 --> 00:46:01,894
drink better. They like experiences. They like sharing things

742
00:46:01,934 --> 00:46:05,614
with their friends. They also have a differential price point concept.

743
00:46:05,654 --> 00:46:09,366
So the boomers, we grow up with certain things at

744
00:46:09,390 --> 00:46:13,150
certain price points. My son and

745
00:46:13,182 --> 00:46:16,662
daughter, they compare the price of a bottle of wine today

746
00:46:16,798 --> 00:46:19,278
to maybe a price of a pair of sneakers. Now, for me, a pair of

747
00:46:19,286 --> 00:46:21,514
sneakers is $125.

748
00:46:23,884 --> 00:46:27,116
For them, a pair of, exactly. For them, a pair of golden goose sneakers is

749
00:46:27,140 --> 00:46:30,916
$600. They have a different relationship with price

750
00:46:30,980 --> 00:46:34,744
value and wine equations fits into that. So

751
00:46:35,044 --> 00:46:38,868
I think you mentioned yellowtail earlier on. I

752
00:46:38,876 --> 00:46:42,476
think the yellowtail end of the market will be more difficult for

753
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:46,332
people going forward. I think for people who are making

754
00:46:46,388 --> 00:46:50,212
something that is a

755
00:46:50,268 --> 00:46:53,916
gender authentic product with an authentic story about

756
00:46:53,980 --> 00:46:57,628
quality, whether that's in wine from a specific

757
00:46:57,676 --> 00:47:01,444
vineyard place site, or it's a spirit that's been

758
00:47:01,484 --> 00:47:05,028
aged in a particular way for some time, then I think

759
00:47:05,156 --> 00:47:08,664
the storytelling is very important to the millennial and Gen Z

760
00:47:09,244 --> 00:47:13,064
audience. They want to align their values with the values of the producer.

761
00:47:13,594 --> 00:47:16,898
They want authentic storytelling, not a

762
00:47:16,946 --> 00:47:20,666
story that's essentially.

763
00:47:20,770 --> 00:47:24,466
We used to produce this, we just relabeled it, and we're now

764
00:47:24,490 --> 00:47:28,154
charging more for it. And so I think going forward, I think, yeah,

765
00:47:28,274 --> 00:47:32,066
there's interesting things to be learned from the spirit side of, from the wine business

766
00:47:32,130 --> 00:47:35,914
and vice versa going forward about what

767
00:47:35,954 --> 00:47:39,698
authenticity really means. The woman I mentioned, the beginning of the

768
00:47:39,706 --> 00:47:43,106
show, Jessica Kogan, she had come from Donna Karen,

769
00:47:43,170 --> 00:47:46,932
or one of the fashion companies that she went

770
00:47:46,948 --> 00:47:49,876
to, wine. Brilliant digital

771
00:47:49,940 --> 00:47:53,636
marketeer. Now she's on the consulting side. But we

772
00:47:53,660 --> 00:47:57,444
both agreed that this social networking,

773
00:47:57,484 --> 00:48:01,236
marketing, all those things that go along with it, the influencer side, it's going to

774
00:48:01,260 --> 00:48:04,988
implode. It's already starting to implode in that it's almost impossible to get

775
00:48:05,076 --> 00:48:08,892
your acquisition cost through Facebook because you spend so much money trying to

776
00:48:08,908 --> 00:48:11,824
find somebody, and then they're so disloyal.

777
00:48:12,564 --> 00:48:16,396
Generally, they're disloyal and they're looking for the best deal. Groupon did that

778
00:48:16,420 --> 00:48:19,384
to us. And then in the wine trade,

779
00:48:20,084 --> 00:48:23,772
particularly companies like Wink, which was buying 50

780
00:48:23,828 --> 00:48:27,628
centiliter stuff from the center of Spain, bottling it three

781
00:48:27,676 --> 00:48:31,372
ways to sundae some interesting labels and pawning it off as

782
00:48:31,468 --> 00:48:35,252
$15 to $20 wine. You can only fool people for so long. When you

783
00:48:35,268 --> 00:48:38,738
open the bottle, you kind of go, this really isn't that great. I kind of

784
00:48:38,746 --> 00:48:42,386
got ripped off. And so there goes your lifetime value of a customer, there goes

785
00:48:42,410 --> 00:48:45,594
your subscription model, because they only stick around for a month or two, and all

786
00:48:45,594 --> 00:48:49,106
of a sudden, a $250 million gross revenue company goes out of

787
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:52,786
business. And I think there's going to be more of that. I think the

788
00:48:52,810 --> 00:48:56,610
consumer's tired of being fooled. I think

789
00:48:56,642 --> 00:48:59,854
the consumer's tired of brands that aren't real.

790
00:49:00,434 --> 00:49:03,698
I have no problem with white labels or private label brands because you can buy

791
00:49:03,746 --> 00:49:06,832
really good juice and put it that way. And that's you. You end up with,

792
00:49:06,898 --> 00:49:10,700
you know, a nice wine, but that comes from the

793
00:49:10,732 --> 00:49:14,452
passion and the objective of the bottler. And the person making the

794
00:49:14,468 --> 00:49:18,220
brand. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think the. Well, as you said, the

795
00:49:18,252 --> 00:49:21,876
authenticity of the storytelling, and it has to be authentic, and it has

796
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:25,612
to offer value for money. And I think with private label,

797
00:49:25,708 --> 00:49:29,420
you see private label being a bit more challenging because people are buying

798
00:49:29,492 --> 00:49:33,212
cheap liquid and putting it under a no name brand and

799
00:49:33,228 --> 00:49:36,860
then trying to sell it. I think the own label, where people are disclosing

800
00:49:36,972 --> 00:49:40,492
their own brand, is actually much more relevant,

801
00:49:40,548 --> 00:49:44,356
because even if it's a less expensive brand like

802
00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:48,116
Kirkland at Costco, they're still proud of their brand, and they want the quality, for

803
00:49:48,140 --> 00:49:51,172
the value, for money to be there. And I think so. I think the old

804
00:49:51,228 --> 00:49:54,544
label, where it's disclosed what the brand is,

805
00:49:54,924 --> 00:49:58,292
actually has a value. But I agree with you. I

806
00:49:58,308 --> 00:50:02,000
think the. The younger generation will premiumize.

807
00:50:02,032 --> 00:50:05,744
They will spend more money on different

808
00:50:05,784 --> 00:50:09,280
bottles of wine and spirits. But the storytelling needs to be

809
00:50:09,392 --> 00:50:13,032
correct, it needs to be authentic, and it needs to align with their values. In

810
00:50:13,048 --> 00:50:16,384
fact, my comment is, I bought this on Groupon for

811
00:50:16,424 --> 00:50:19,884
$5. Is not a story that you want to tell.

812
00:50:21,024 --> 00:50:24,872
Definitely not. In fact, during Christmas, after I sold my company

813
00:50:24,928 --> 00:50:28,158
last March, last May, keep an eye on what's going

814
00:50:28,206 --> 00:50:31,990
on. And I, in fact, listen to seminars all the time to keep

815
00:50:32,022 --> 00:50:35,678
up on the marketing methodologies, AI in particular. But

816
00:50:35,806 --> 00:50:39,074
a club started here in the United States called

817
00:50:39,614 --> 00:50:43,238
Cheapo Vino. And I'm thinking,

818
00:50:43,326 --> 00:50:47,046
who wants to say at dinnertime, with a guess, I got

819
00:50:47,070 --> 00:50:50,434
this on. Well, maybe it's Vino Cheapo, one of the two.

820
00:50:51,314 --> 00:50:54,738
That's not a story. I mean, that's just not telling a story. We're already

821
00:50:54,786 --> 00:50:58,442
at 50 minutes here, so we're. We've got to wrap this up. I will tell

822
00:50:58,458 --> 00:51:02,210
you, I'm going to Bordeaux in about a week, week and a half.

823
00:51:02,362 --> 00:51:05,894
Uh, we're going to visit Lagrange and Cheval Blanc and Angelus.

824
00:51:06,314 --> 00:51:09,266
So if you need anybody, you know, to run flanker for you while we're walking

825
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:13,034
in there, of course. You know, I was, uh, I was actually just there,

826
00:51:13,074 --> 00:51:16,274
um, tasting the 2023 a few weeks ago.

827
00:51:16,394 --> 00:51:19,932
And I've got to say, bordeaux is making. Is making

828
00:51:20,068 --> 00:51:23,340
exceptional wines. And for the price point, it's sort of

829
00:51:23,372 --> 00:51:27,204
interesting. They used to be, yes, about 70% of the secondary

830
00:51:27,244 --> 00:51:30,284
market used to be Bordeaux, and now it's down to about 25% of the secondary

831
00:51:30,324 --> 00:51:34,172
market. But the value for money in Bordeaux Bordeaux

832
00:51:34,188 --> 00:51:36,940
is probably cheaper than in value for money.

833
00:51:37,052 --> 00:51:40,452
Burgundy, California, and champagne. So

834
00:51:40,628 --> 00:51:44,236
you'll have a great time, and you'll drink well and you'll drink. I think they're

835
00:51:44,260 --> 00:51:47,916
making better wine than ever before. I'm very proud of myself. Two

836
00:51:47,940 --> 00:51:51,324
of my local friends that just, you know, they're not

837
00:51:51,364 --> 00:51:54,756
wine aficionados, but they're starting to learn and

838
00:51:54,780 --> 00:51:58,544
they've, they're very excited about this trip to Bordeaux because

839
00:51:58,924 --> 00:52:02,444
I've kind of moved them off of the Napa cab, you know, profile

840
00:52:02,524 --> 00:52:06,324
into a more, you know, structured, acidic backbone. But

841
00:52:06,404 --> 00:52:10,144
fabulous conversation. Jamie, I really appreciate the time and

842
00:52:10,924 --> 00:52:14,026
hearing about blockbar and what's going on. I think it's a really

843
00:52:14,090 --> 00:52:17,934
solid approach to collecting and buying.

844
00:52:18,434 --> 00:52:21,002
Paul, it's been a pleasure talking to you and thank you very much for having

845
00:52:21,018 --> 00:52:23,014
me on your show. Much appreciated. Cheers.

846
00:52:31,754 --> 00:52:35,090
Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum. Cary. And don't forget to

847
00:52:35,122 --> 00:52:38,274
subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way.

848
00:52:38,434 --> 00:52:41,754
Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.