I Think You Can Say His Family Invented Provence Rosé. Meet François Ott.

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Carson Leno

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Fallon. Now it's

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wine talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to wine talk with Paul K. And we are at a semi

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away game, still in Los Angeles, about to have a conversation with Jean

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Francois. Jean. Jean. Easy for me to say. Jean Francois.

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Haute of Domain. Haute introductions in just a moment. Hey, have

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a listen to this. Upcoming shows. I just finished in Bordeaux, France. I had

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an amazing conversation with Pierre Olivier Clouet

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of the Cheval Blanc as well as Veronique Sanders

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van Beeck of Chateau au bail. Incredible conversation about

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what's going on in the Bordeaux region of France. And also just

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up a conversation with Monique Elling. She is a

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d one tennis player who's turned digital wine

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marketeer. Fascinating, interesting, intelligent conversation

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about wine. Listen to that. But not while we're here. Here to have a conversation

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with Jean. Jean. I keep saying Jean. Jean Francois,

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welcome to the show. Thank you. He's

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looking at me like, what's wrong with you? You can't even say my name right.

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But we all know of the famed

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rose house in the provence of Domain Haute.

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And as we were discussing earlier, the Americans say haute, but it's

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haute. So welcome to the show. Thank you. It's great. You know, we saw you

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yesterday in Wally's, had a great lunch, and I've

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never had a vertical of a rose before.

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Is that done very often? Not very often.

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Yeah. Who's, who's, whose idea was this? Was this Maureen's idea?

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No, I want, I wanted to make

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it on Rosewine because nobody does it.

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And it's a way for me to make people understand that good

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rose can age a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I

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want to do the lay of the land, sort of the geography of the

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provence for people to understand where we're at

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in France, having just been to Monaco for the Grand Prix, of

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course, which is incredible. Let's

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explain to the listeners where in France we're talking about the Provence.

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So we are exactly by the sea

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in the VA area. We are located

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between, I would say west

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from Saint Tropez. Between Saint Tropez and Marseilles.

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And we have three different estate there,

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Chateau de Selmierai and Chateau Manceau.

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So that's the Mediterranean Sea. Absolutely, yeah. And

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there's a little sea that's off of Monaco and

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between the island. And now I can't remember the name of it. I saw it

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on the atlas the other day. But the mediterranean influence is a very

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important part of these wines. And in

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fact, yesterday when you discussed that, it hit me, you know, the

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salinity and that. Wonderful. It's almost the same salinity

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you get sometimes in the sicilian wines, where you get this little bit.

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It's not salt. I wouldn't even call it salt. Right. It's just an influence.

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Yep. It's something like,

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we call it salinity, but

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actually, in France, it's another

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word, and it kind of make you

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feel that, you know, you're a little bit thirsty when you

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just drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty nice. I get it.

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Enfranch. There's a phrase a fries

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for. We call it

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sapid, maybe sabidity or. I don't

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know if it works. I think that makes sense. So this is not

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a new facility. Now I'm going to talk Rose a little bit about the

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american market, which is particularly in the west coast where you're at

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today. Rose is kind of new. We don't

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really discuss Rose until the last, let's say, ten

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years. The east coast was much more prolific when it came to

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rose consumption prior. And then, of course, it all started in the

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Provence pretty much. But your family is not new to this.

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No. My great grandfather started. So

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he was coming from Alsace because of the name. Right.

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So he was coming from Alsace. He was just

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graduated from agronomical school in

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Paris, and he wanted to make wines,

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iron wines, and he looked at

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several regions in France, and

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he finally ended up in Provence. He wanted to

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go to Algeria because at this time, Algeria was

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french. And finally,

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he didn't move to Algeria, and he stayed in Provence,

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but he. Wanted to be in the wine trade when he went to school. Yes,

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this was his idea. What was, was the family in wine before that? No,

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no, it was like, you know, something

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like a vocation, I guess. Yeah, right. No, well, I mean,

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certainly is intriguing to, to be in this industry, particularly

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as a french, you know, indigenous, native french person,

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so. Yeah, but, you know, it was, he was graduated

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from an

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agronomical school, and at this time

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in France, they had the phylloxera, so

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all the vineyard was down.

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And so he had a lot of job

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replanting the vineyard.

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And when he first ended up

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in Provence, he had a lot of.

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Yeah, it was, it took all

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his time starting to replant with new

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type of grapes for other people, and

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at one point, he decided to buy an estate himself,

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thinking that he cannot plan for everyone and doesn't

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make it for himself. So, you know, you said something important because

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during one of the tours while I was podcasting in,

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I don't think it was Bordeaux, though. One of

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the tour guides said when philoxuracrain, which

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was late, 18 hundreds. Right. That that

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was the end of fine wine in France, because we had to get

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american rootstock to fix the problem. And I thought, well, that's an

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interesting comment to make, you know, since originally the rootstock was french that we

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got, and then we sent it back. But is that a,

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is that a real opinion that, that we've ruined of the merry.

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Where did that come from? Is that the question? Nobody can know, actually.

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I mean, it would, it would be.

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I don't know what kind of coping can be, but you

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never know, actually. The thing is, we have rootstock. We don't

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have any more philoxia. I mean, we still have it, but

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we don't have any problem with it. Yeah. And the one

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song, so hit, the. Provence, the phylloxer

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wiped out pretty much. I know most of the Bordeaux, Burgundy, all the rest of

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it, but Provence got it, too. Yeah. And so when he went out to

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buy his first, well, he bought vineyards to make, to

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grow grapes, originally, and then he decided to make wine. So the first vintage

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that your great grandfather made, do you know what it is? It must

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be just after the war. The

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first. Oh, so, 1819. Yeah. Wow.

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And was it rose? It was. At this time, it was

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producing the 3d color. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Yeah.

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Because there's something on your website, you talked about it yesterday about Cabernet Sauvignon,

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and I thought that was really interesting because you don't hear about that, but

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you've eliminated that completely from your vineyard.

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Yeah, no, but I really felt that. I

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have some example about

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this. We used to make the white

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wine in clo Mireille with 50% of

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uni blanc and 50% of simillon. And

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at one point, I really felt interesting.

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We didn't really manage to grow

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the right way. I mean, with the quality. We wanted the uni

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blanc anymore, so we decided to

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switch from uni blanc to Virmentino or to

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roll. And roll, I think, is more adapted

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to the place. I mean, today, because

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the weather is changing a little bit, and it's getting warmer,

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drier. So Vermont chino is.

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I mean, it's nice at this place, and I really feel

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that Unil blanc was not nice anymore, and it's exactly the

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same for Cabernet. And maybe I

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started in the, at domenot in

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2002, and at this time, I had

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more verd in Chateau de Seul, and I

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never managed to have the good ripeness on

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those mower. And so I put them up

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and today I plan some back, some

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movie back. Oh, really? In Chateau de Seul. And they go to ripeness

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without any problem. So that means that we, we need to adapt

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our. Yeah. The type of grapes and the viticulture to

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the. To the terroir, to the place and to the climate. So is

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that, I mean, let's. I have, and this is

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not a political show, this is about wine. So

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I try to keep the politics out of it, but there is

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obviously climate change. Many wine districts in the world

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are wrestling with having to change their policies

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on how they canopy and trellis. Other parts of the wine

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world now are producing grapes better than they've ever produced

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because look at England. You can grow champagne grapes there now

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and you couldn't. I have notes from my father's trip in

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1979 to Sussex, England and

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the Isle of Wight. You know, it was all german Riesling and

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german varietals for cold weather. Now, Pinot Noir,

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Chardonnay. So in your case, do you think that the more

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vedras come back because that it's more suitable based

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on today's climate? And then what are you doing

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to potentially deal with this down the

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road. On which type of

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grapes? I mean, on every type of grape. I mean, like, what's the general

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idea for protecting yourself in the future from

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problem? I cannot do that. I mean,

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the only thing I can do is trying

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to be involved on the everyday process

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in the vineyard to make sure that what we do

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works with the climate and

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the rain or the hot temperature that we have

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on everyday during the year.

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And so we have small tricks

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about talking about the canopy, taking the leaves

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out or not pruning later,

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plowing the soil at certain times,

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putting some grass in the

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vineyard to keep the humidity in the soil.

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I would say it's the short term story.

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And on the long term story, I need to

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know exactly what

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could be new type of grapes

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in my terroir. So

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I make a lot of tries on

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different type of grapes, grapes that are coming

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from Greece, Portugal,

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which you can't pronounce.

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Yeah. And all south of Italy,

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places that are drier, hotter than

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what we are in Provence. And

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it's not going to be for today. It's going to be for, you know,

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when we talk about viticulture, we always think

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not from for the five next years, but maybe for

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the next 20 or 30 years.

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And I don't know, in about

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20 years from now, I don't really

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know what exactly will be

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the climate, the weather in south of France. I mean,

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the only thing I know is

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we've lost in, I would say

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35 years. We've lost a month

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on the time we harvest. That means that we used

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to harvest mid September and

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today we harvest in mid

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August. So that's so fascinating because

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Napa was a month late this year in California.

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And, you know, there's been many cycles in the

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history of agriculture and wine particular. Look at

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the late 17 hundreds was a cold snap, 15 years of

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colder temperature. So we don't know what we're up for. But were you always going

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to be in wine? Your father did this? Yes. You

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just were going to do it. You had no ambition to do anything else. You

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wanted to stay in the family business? No, I came back

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in 2002. I was 29. So I worked

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in other companies, but not in a wine business

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for almost seven years.

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But thinking you were coming back or thinking, yeah, I don't want to be in

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the family business. I don't have any. I have three daughters. They didn't want my

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business. Actually,

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I think I knew that I was going to come back, but I

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think I was trying to, you know,

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I didn't feel that being involved with

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the previous generation, there were six people

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really strong with 40 years of experience.

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So I was too young for that. So I had to

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go somewhere else and come back a little bit stronger.

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No, I agree. I did the same. I went to

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corporate America, biggest sales company in America at the

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time. And then I went to a company that had nothing. We had

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nothing. We had no money, and we had a small computer. This is

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19 81 85. But that

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prepared me for this to be in our industry.

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And now I would never think of doing anything else

243
00:15:14,484 --> 00:15:18,260
because it's so, it's like a, I don't know, it's not a fraternity, but there's

244
00:15:18,292 --> 00:15:22,100
so much camaraderie to do this. Tell me about

245
00:15:22,132 --> 00:15:25,972
Rose in the world. I discussed it a little bit in

246
00:15:25,988 --> 00:15:29,740
the beginning. That rose in California just caught on.

247
00:15:29,932 --> 00:15:33,740
We had 1974 when Sutter Holm came up with

248
00:15:33,772 --> 00:15:37,504
white Zinfandel, which probably was not a good thing for the world of rose.

249
00:15:37,884 --> 00:15:41,580
But he's making a face, everybody. But it was a good

250
00:15:41,612 --> 00:15:44,884
thing for the world of wine because people that weren't drinking

251
00:15:44,924 --> 00:15:48,284
wine, now we're drinking wine. But

252
00:15:48,904 --> 00:15:50,284
I think there's still

253
00:15:53,064 --> 00:15:56,804
a mindset in Americans that pink wine

254
00:15:57,144 --> 00:16:00,896
is sweet wine. Do you still, do you see that in

255
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,744
America? I see that only in America, actually. And

256
00:16:04,904 --> 00:16:08,696
most of the time people ask us if

257
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,976
it is sweet or dry? They just ask the question. Yeah.

258
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,434
And to tell you the truth, I don't feel, I mean,

259
00:16:15,934 --> 00:16:19,662
beside white defender. I mean, I never had a sweet

260
00:16:19,718 --> 00:16:22,634
Jose wine. Yeah. Doesn't exist.

261
00:16:23,574 --> 00:16:27,110
Well, you know, there's been. I have a story.

262
00:16:27,262 --> 00:16:30,154
The listeners have heard this before, but in 74, my father

263
00:16:30,974 --> 00:16:34,782
had his wine shop had been about six, seven years. Went to Napa, stopped

264
00:16:34,798 --> 00:16:38,598
at seller home. This young man named Bob Trincaro was working

265
00:16:38,646 --> 00:16:41,566
the counter back then in the wine trademark. And I'm going to ask you this

266
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:45,366
question about the Provence. But back then, there was not a lot of visitors. There

267
00:16:45,390 --> 00:16:49,174
wasn't hospitality like there is today in Napa. And he says, I want

268
00:16:49,214 --> 00:16:52,590
you to taste something. It's in the back. He brings out this bottle of white

269
00:16:52,622 --> 00:16:55,754
Zinfandel. But he was trying to make

270
00:16:56,294 --> 00:16:59,582
what they called eye of the partridge a dry

271
00:16:59,638 --> 00:17:03,462
rose. It was Provence style originally. It always

272
00:17:03,518 --> 00:17:07,310
had been, but the fermentation stopped and he was stuck with this

273
00:17:07,342 --> 00:17:10,654
thing. And then, of course, it became the biggest seller we ever had.

274
00:17:11,514 --> 00:17:14,534
So I'm wondering if that's just the premonition of

275
00:17:15,954 --> 00:17:19,626
american palates. You know, the american palate just got used to

276
00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:23,254
this idea. So it was never sweet in Provence, ever. No,

277
00:17:24,314 --> 00:17:27,338
but I mean, the cahi desharges of

278
00:17:27,426 --> 00:17:29,334
Provence wines,

279
00:17:32,034 --> 00:17:35,834
you need to have at least less

280
00:17:35,874 --> 00:17:39,154
than 3 grams of sugar. So,

281
00:17:39,314 --> 00:17:43,094
wow. At this time, it's dry. Yeah. So

282
00:17:44,554 --> 00:17:48,066
besides, besides America, what's

283
00:17:48,090 --> 00:17:51,578
the, what is the reception for Rose today,

284
00:17:51,706 --> 00:17:55,014
let's say, compared to when you started in 2002?

285
00:17:57,754 --> 00:18:01,266
I think the, at the beginning,

286
00:18:01,330 --> 00:18:04,890
when, when my family started to make Jose, nobody was

287
00:18:04,922 --> 00:18:08,374
producing Jose. So it was the beginning of everything on Rose

288
00:18:09,224 --> 00:18:12,864
in south France. But I think my great grandfather was smart and he wanted

289
00:18:12,904 --> 00:18:16,656
to, he didn't want to compete with high end white

290
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,224
or high end red wines. And he decided to

291
00:18:20,264 --> 00:18:23,400
create the category of Rose

292
00:18:23,472 --> 00:18:27,248
more. But he was producing

293
00:18:27,296 --> 00:18:30,924
a lot of Jose. The success was

294
00:18:32,704 --> 00:18:36,304
okay, let's say, okay, in south of France, on

295
00:18:36,384 --> 00:18:40,154
the Cote d'Azur, on the French Riviera. But

296
00:18:41,774 --> 00:18:43,674
it was difficult to sell.

297
00:18:46,254 --> 00:18:49,750
I mean, enough Jose to sell everything. So decided

298
00:18:49,822 --> 00:18:53,446
to multiply

299
00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:57,134
the country where he was going to export. But it was also,

300
00:18:57,294 --> 00:19:00,950
it was only, we say, niche market, I mean,

301
00:19:01,022 --> 00:19:03,394
really small market everywhere.

302
00:19:04,614 --> 00:19:08,198
So he managed to

303
00:19:08,366 --> 00:19:11,594
sell a good part of his production. But

304
00:19:12,054 --> 00:19:15,774
it lasts maybe from the beginning of the

305
00:19:15,814 --> 00:19:17,314
nineties until

306
00:19:24,294 --> 00:19:27,714
1990 or after the war,

307
00:19:28,494 --> 00:19:30,514
I would say the end of the nineties.

308
00:19:32,854 --> 00:19:36,030
At this time, the market changed a little bit.

309
00:19:36,182 --> 00:19:39,782
And since then, it has been really fast. I

310
00:19:39,798 --> 00:19:43,286
mean, the market of rose get developed in

311
00:19:43,390 --> 00:19:46,594
about, I would say, 30 years now,

312
00:19:47,494 --> 00:19:49,034
really fast. And.

313
00:19:51,454 --> 00:19:54,834
I wonder why that is. I don't. I think

314
00:19:56,014 --> 00:19:59,736
there are many reasons. I think the first reason is

315
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,484
because the quality, the general quality of Jose wines

316
00:20:04,024 --> 00:20:07,216
improved a lot the last 20 years.

317
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,792
Really. I also think people

318
00:20:10,888 --> 00:20:14,364
get, you know, maybe because of Zefindel, but

319
00:20:15,184 --> 00:20:18,912
they get used to the color, and. And women

320
00:20:19,008 --> 00:20:22,544
started to like this color and this

321
00:20:22,584 --> 00:20:26,224
wine, and they started to buy some.

322
00:20:26,564 --> 00:20:30,164
And I don't know. It's. At the same time,

323
00:20:30,244 --> 00:20:33,944
it's a good entrance door

324
00:20:34,324 --> 00:20:36,744
to the world of wine, because

325
00:20:39,484 --> 00:20:43,156
most of the time, when you're talking about Bordeaux, Burgundy, white

326
00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:47,068
or red, I mean, you need to know everything about

327
00:20:47,116 --> 00:20:50,428
it. So there's something about the complexity of this

328
00:20:50,476 --> 00:20:53,830
world. For Jose,

329
00:20:53,942 --> 00:20:56,314
it's way more simple. I mean,

330
00:20:57,934 --> 00:21:01,446
it's true. Most of the time, Jose is Provence, and that's

331
00:21:01,470 --> 00:21:04,874
it. That's all you need to know. That's an interesting thought, because

332
00:21:07,534 --> 00:21:11,326
yesterday's wine, there was plenty of structure. And I'm going to go

333
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:14,406
back to when I started tasting in

334
00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:18,114
1988. So about when you're talking, right, the nineties

335
00:21:19,554 --> 00:21:23,050
saw very little. And that was every Tuesday for

336
00:21:23,082 --> 00:21:26,458
35 years. I'd stand in my tasting room, and all of a

337
00:21:26,466 --> 00:21:30,218
sudden, I guess if I went back and plotted the graph, you would see this

338
00:21:30,266 --> 00:21:33,858
upward graph of tastings, but not only upward graph of

339
00:21:33,906 --> 00:21:37,490
more rose. Every appalachian in the

340
00:21:37,522 --> 00:21:41,226
world now seems to have its own rose made from

341
00:21:41,250 --> 00:21:44,378
its own grapes. I mean, there's tuscan rose, there's

342
00:21:44,466 --> 00:21:47,734
corsican rose, there's sardinian rose,

343
00:21:49,114 --> 00:21:52,894
and there's armenian rose, my indigenous heritage.

344
00:21:54,034 --> 00:21:57,794
And I find that interesting, that the market's big enough that

345
00:21:57,834 --> 00:22:01,242
they've said, you know what? We should be making rose, too. And they make them

346
00:22:01,258 --> 00:22:04,818
from all the grapes that they. Is there any appalachian restrictions

347
00:22:04,986 --> 00:22:08,706
in the south of France as to what you can make it from? Oh,

348
00:22:08,730 --> 00:22:12,514
yeah. AOC stuff. I mean, the AOC. I mean, in the AOC,

349
00:22:12,594 --> 00:22:16,146
you have a list of type of grapes. Oh, you do? And you cannot

350
00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:19,594
use anything else. Yeah. And that's interesting

351
00:22:19,674 --> 00:22:23,322
because I had a Tuscan. I was like, eh, it was okay. But then I

352
00:22:23,338 --> 00:22:27,082
had this corsican. What's the grape? The

353
00:22:27,098 --> 00:22:30,922
indigenous grape of Corsica. I was like, wow, this is really special. But

354
00:22:30,938 --> 00:22:34,658
the wines we tasted yesterday, which we tasted. The three different estates.

355
00:22:34,746 --> 00:22:38,506
Yes. And then we tasted Etoile, which is your flagship

356
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:42,454
blend from all the estates. If I remember hearing yesterday,

357
00:22:43,284 --> 00:22:47,012
what was interesting about all of them, and particularly tasting a

358
00:22:47,028 --> 00:22:50,732
vertical, which, the oldest being 2020, there was

359
00:22:50,788 --> 00:22:53,852
great structure in those wines. There was great

360
00:22:53,908 --> 00:22:57,356
acidity, there was great fruit. There was a

361
00:22:57,380 --> 00:23:01,092
seamless transition from the beginning to the end. Is

362
00:23:01,108 --> 00:23:04,224
that the objective here? To produce a wine that

363
00:23:04,644 --> 00:23:07,464
reflects terroir and

364
00:23:07,804 --> 00:23:10,704
structure? Yeah, definitely. I mean,

365
00:23:11,844 --> 00:23:15,424
there are many goals. Obviously. The first one is

366
00:23:16,604 --> 00:23:17,944
we need them to

367
00:23:20,484 --> 00:23:23,876
like them. Well, that starts

368
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,744
it. We can make stuff we like, but that doesn't matter.

369
00:23:28,164 --> 00:23:31,224
That's exactly the same as the chef, I think. I mean,

370
00:23:31,804 --> 00:23:34,104
you obviously produce what you like,

371
00:23:34,964 --> 00:23:38,564
but it's also a way to

372
00:23:38,944 --> 00:23:41,524
make people understand. I'm not sure

373
00:23:42,184 --> 00:23:45,244
that rose can also be a

374
00:23:47,024 --> 00:23:49,884
wine with a structure, with a taste

375
00:23:50,864 --> 00:23:54,512
and with the characteristic of a rose. I

376
00:23:54,528 --> 00:23:57,164
mean, what do you expect in a rose?

377
00:23:59,224 --> 00:24:02,656
I feel that we all expect pretty much the same. The

378
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,304
freshness, the good balance, the fruit

379
00:24:06,344 --> 00:24:10,136
taste. It has to be refreshing. And at the

380
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,848
same time, it's wine. So we need.

381
00:24:13,936 --> 00:24:17,604
We need structure. We need the texture in the mouth.

382
00:24:19,624 --> 00:24:23,400
We need it to be good and pleasant. So, you know,

383
00:24:23,432 --> 00:24:27,136
that's. I'm glad he said it that way. Last night

384
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,456
I had only to celebrate our trip. I had a bottle of

385
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,134
obey. But I was looking forward to that

386
00:24:34,834 --> 00:24:38,074
during the day. Like, I was looking forward to the idea of going to open

387
00:24:38,114 --> 00:24:41,842
this wine. Right. That's good. And you want this to be

388
00:24:41,858 --> 00:24:45,054
the same with Rose. And I think what I tasted yesterday,

389
00:24:45,874 --> 00:24:49,594
I can anticipate at lunchtime

390
00:24:49,634 --> 00:24:53,338
that tonight I'm going to open a bottle of domenot and I'm going to

391
00:24:53,386 --> 00:24:57,130
etoile and I'm going to anticipate this acid,

392
00:24:57,202 --> 00:25:00,816
this structure and the way it works with my food. And I think that's an

393
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,724
important lesson or

394
00:25:04,864 --> 00:25:08,712
character that we need the public to learn, not just as an

395
00:25:08,728 --> 00:25:12,536
aperitif in the summertime, but

396
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,124
as in tasting that 2020.

397
00:25:16,544 --> 00:25:20,288
You'd almost expect that under the old school to be

398
00:25:20,336 --> 00:25:24,016
slightly maturized, oxidized, that the character would be gone. And it

399
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,854
wasn't. It was rather bright and ready. Yeah.

400
00:25:28,154 --> 00:25:31,562
To tell you the truth, I'm struggling a lot on

401
00:25:31,618 --> 00:25:35,330
Rose about

402
00:25:35,362 --> 00:25:38,534
the market, because I really feel that people.

403
00:25:40,234 --> 00:25:41,774
It's something like

404
00:25:43,994 --> 00:25:47,658
Rose. It has

405
00:25:47,706 --> 00:25:51,482
to be, you know, how do you

406
00:25:51,498 --> 00:25:55,302
say, like, if it's. It's not a serious wine, right? It's

407
00:25:55,318 --> 00:25:58,710
not serious. And I'm

408
00:25:58,742 --> 00:26:02,286
struggling against that, actually, because I really want

409
00:26:02,430 --> 00:26:05,434
rose to be at the same level as white and

410
00:26:05,774 --> 00:26:09,550
red. I mean, some whites and some reds are not

411
00:26:09,582 --> 00:26:12,594
good. Some rose are not good. That's true. And

412
00:26:13,494 --> 00:26:17,190
some, Jose, are really good. And some red.

413
00:26:17,342 --> 00:26:21,158
You are expecting your dinner and you want

414
00:26:21,206 --> 00:26:24,848
to. I mean, you think about it during your day and you want to open

415
00:26:24,896 --> 00:26:28,616
it at night. Right. It's pretty much. It can be pretty much the same

416
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,844
for Jose. I think so. And it really depends on

417
00:26:32,144 --> 00:26:35,824
the way you make it, what you expect, what you

418
00:26:35,864 --> 00:26:39,640
put on the production of your. Of your wine. It can

419
00:26:39,672 --> 00:26:43,440
be white, red, or rosy. You know, that's interesting, because

420
00:26:43,472 --> 00:26:45,404
you said something, and I was.

421
00:26:47,564 --> 00:26:50,596
I can't use the word fascinating because my friends laugh at me when I use

422
00:26:50,620 --> 00:26:54,012
that word, but I was intrigued by the idea that a one, you said, I

423
00:26:54,028 --> 00:26:57,788
don't care about the color because some of it was pretty pale. And

424
00:26:57,796 --> 00:27:01,452
I started thinking, wait a minute, for the listeners, if you crush it, if you

425
00:27:01,468 --> 00:27:05,268
open a grape up, almost all grapes, there's only a handful of red skin

426
00:27:05,316 --> 00:27:08,764
grapes that have red pulp, but most red

427
00:27:08,844 --> 00:27:12,504
grapes have clear pulp. And so,

428
00:27:13,104 --> 00:27:16,240
really, what's the difference between that and a white wine, except that it started with

429
00:27:16,272 --> 00:27:19,976
red skin, and so you should be able to get the same structure, the same

430
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,760
appeal, the same anticipation from a rose wine,

431
00:27:23,792 --> 00:27:27,640
maybe even more, because you do have that little influence from the skin contact.

432
00:27:27,712 --> 00:27:31,472
Yes, absolutely. To produce a wine of character.

433
00:27:31,648 --> 00:27:35,440
So how do we do that? I have this. It's not an argument,

434
00:27:35,472 --> 00:27:39,224
but I have this discussion many times with the academics

435
00:27:39,264 --> 00:27:42,800
of the wine world, and that is, wine has always been driven by the

436
00:27:42,832 --> 00:27:46,480
consumer. I mean, as much as you and I would love that romantic idea, that

437
00:27:46,512 --> 00:27:49,944
wine is this beverage that we can all enjoy, and maybe

438
00:27:49,984 --> 00:27:53,752
profitability, if that wasn't a problem, then maybe we would have a

439
00:27:53,768 --> 00:27:57,576
different wine. Right. But we don't. We have to appeal to the consumer.

440
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,044
So is it trips like these? Here you are in Los Angeles

441
00:28:01,624 --> 00:28:05,416
explaining, tasting, talking to the press, talking

442
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,880
to clients. Is that the only way that we can do this? Is that a

443
00:28:07,912 --> 00:28:11,136
way we need to do it? Yeah. I'm not sure the

444
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,936
market can lead the taste of the

445
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,800
production. I mean, unless you have 12 million

446
00:28:18,872 --> 00:28:22,576
bottles to sell. I mean, the production, our production is small,

447
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,224
and the world is big. So hopefully I would

448
00:28:26,264 --> 00:28:30,112
find some people that have the same taste. That's a good point. That's a

449
00:28:30,128 --> 00:28:33,616
good point. But, yeah, I

450
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,432
think we need to. I

451
00:28:37,448 --> 00:28:41,176
mean, I really feel that. Well, I like to make it, but I really

452
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,008
feel that I need to explain people our job, what we

453
00:28:45,016 --> 00:28:48,664
are doing in the vineyard every day, our everyday

454
00:28:48,704 --> 00:28:52,024
job, the fact

455
00:28:52,064 --> 00:28:55,496
that we spend time in the

456
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,224
vineyard, we go into details

457
00:28:59,344 --> 00:29:02,570
to make it that way

458
00:29:02,642 --> 00:29:06,026
and to get consistent from one vintage to the

459
00:29:06,050 --> 00:29:08,334
other. All

460
00:29:09,514 --> 00:29:13,250
the work that we

461
00:29:13,282 --> 00:29:17,014
do in the vineyard in the winery to make it

462
00:29:19,674 --> 00:29:22,858
the way it is. And, yeah, we need to explain.

463
00:29:22,946 --> 00:29:26,414
Otherwise people would think,

464
00:29:28,574 --> 00:29:32,262
I don't know what they can think, but

465
00:29:32,358 --> 00:29:35,686
I think it's important to not educated

466
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:39,078
people, but because that's to

467
00:29:39,126 --> 00:29:42,462
change the image of Jose in people's mind

468
00:29:42,518 --> 00:29:45,714
anyway. Well, the general, if you think about this,

469
00:29:46,774 --> 00:29:50,342
well, you're here in Los Angeles. If you get a chance to go to a

470
00:29:50,358 --> 00:29:53,314
supermarket and walk down the wine aisle, you're going to find

471
00:29:54,374 --> 00:29:57,798
dozens and dozens and dozens of brands of Cabernet, P. O

472
00:29:57,806 --> 00:30:01,566
noire and the rest, as well as less. But you'll

473
00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:05,274
see a lot of rose. They're going to be

474
00:30:06,294 --> 00:30:10,078
pretty much the same. This is the problem I have with the industry

475
00:30:10,126 --> 00:30:13,894
in general, is that what people have to reach

476
00:30:13,934 --> 00:30:16,926
for off the shelf is going to be tastes like, almost like the one next

477
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:20,726
door to it, because they always have some kind of sugar. The reds, the

478
00:30:20,750 --> 00:30:24,428
whites and the rose all have some kind of sugar. And so I

479
00:30:24,436 --> 00:30:27,636
think you have to put your wines in a glass in front of

480
00:30:27,660 --> 00:30:30,764
somebody to get them to feel. So this, is, this a

481
00:30:30,804 --> 00:30:34,380
struggle between brand

482
00:30:34,452 --> 00:30:38,140
recognition of your domain, which

483
00:30:38,172 --> 00:30:41,964
is, for you, would be staying the course,

484
00:30:42,044 --> 00:30:45,676
staying that straight line, making those wines that you want

485
00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:49,074
to be in the bottle, in your special bottle shape,

486
00:30:49,574 --> 00:30:53,294
and never, never deter from

487
00:30:53,334 --> 00:30:57,150
that because you don't want to succumb to the consumer

488
00:30:57,182 --> 00:30:59,474
part of it. No,

489
00:31:00,654 --> 00:31:03,674
again, again, I think I really make,

490
00:31:04,294 --> 00:31:07,750
I think that was, you talked

491
00:31:07,782 --> 00:31:11,030
about the comments that you had on

492
00:31:11,062 --> 00:31:14,846
Bordeaux with the rootstock, and I think

493
00:31:14,910 --> 00:31:18,144
we, the wines are changing with

494
00:31:18,964 --> 00:31:22,420
our taste. I'm not sure my great

495
00:31:22,452 --> 00:31:26,260
grandfather would like the wine I make today. That's interesting. And I'm not

496
00:31:26,292 --> 00:31:30,020
sure I would love the wine he was making at this

497
00:31:30,052 --> 00:31:32,344
time. That's a good point. But nobody knows.

498
00:31:33,764 --> 00:31:37,580
And the thing is, that's so interesting. I never thought of it. That's

499
00:31:37,612 --> 00:31:40,868
interesting. No, but the thing is, I really feel

500
00:31:40,916 --> 00:31:44,706
that little by little,

501
00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:48,614
on every vintage, we changed things.

502
00:31:50,554 --> 00:31:54,082
And even if there is something like a real

503
00:31:54,138 --> 00:31:57,890
consistency from one vintage to the other, I think we

504
00:31:58,082 --> 00:32:00,894
adapt not because of the market, but

505
00:32:01,754 --> 00:32:05,538
only because of our taste. And

506
00:32:05,626 --> 00:32:08,814
I think that's an interesting thought. And I never

507
00:32:09,394 --> 00:32:13,146
thought about the, your great grandfather or anybody's

508
00:32:13,290 --> 00:32:16,874
predecessor enjoying the wines that you're making today based

509
00:32:16,914 --> 00:32:20,154
on what they were up against and their

510
00:32:20,194 --> 00:32:22,934
marketing and their palate.

511
00:32:24,074 --> 00:32:27,722
You know, that conversation goes another way. And I had this conversation yesterday

512
00:32:27,778 --> 00:32:31,346
with a master of wine, Vanessa Conlon. And that

513
00:32:31,370 --> 00:32:35,218
is, gee, we don't even describe wines the way your grandfather would

514
00:32:35,226 --> 00:32:39,066
have described it, right. No, we use different terms and that's going to

515
00:32:39,090 --> 00:32:42,494
change again. And I think that's an important part of our industry.

516
00:32:43,514 --> 00:32:47,298
And I think it's also why wine is still here. I mean, what is

517
00:32:47,306 --> 00:32:51,042
it, 60 00, 10,000, who knows, 12,000 years old. And I think

518
00:32:51,058 --> 00:32:54,882
it's beyond the fact that there's alcohol in it only, that's not the only

519
00:32:54,938 --> 00:32:58,010
reason in that it does something to our

520
00:32:58,042 --> 00:33:01,866
souls. It brings us to some place and sometime. Is that the

521
00:33:01,890 --> 00:33:05,244
objective of domain art is to

522
00:33:05,824 --> 00:33:09,364
have people feel like a time and place

523
00:33:09,744 --> 00:33:13,336
for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think a part of the success of

524
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,696
domenot is also because it comes from Provence.

525
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,720
And, you know, I try to keep half

526
00:33:20,752 --> 00:33:24,124
of my production in on the French Riviera because

527
00:33:24,624 --> 00:33:28,400
it's a really good, you know, a window on

528
00:33:28,432 --> 00:33:32,130
the, on the, the market and foreign markets because people are

529
00:33:32,162 --> 00:33:35,894
coming in south France. They are not coming for

530
00:33:36,594 --> 00:33:40,010
most of the time. They are coming on holidays. It's always good

531
00:33:40,042 --> 00:33:43,634
memories and good memories, good holidays, good

532
00:33:43,674 --> 00:33:47,354
wine. When you come back to your

533
00:33:47,394 --> 00:33:50,778
country, I mean, feeling

534
00:33:50,826 --> 00:33:54,450
that you come with a part of your

535
00:33:54,482 --> 00:33:56,494
holidays, it's always a good point.

536
00:33:58,474 --> 00:34:01,658
We also, and we really try

537
00:34:01,746 --> 00:34:04,938
to adapt our

538
00:34:04,986 --> 00:34:08,474
viticulture to have the good grapes, the good

539
00:34:08,514 --> 00:34:11,614
sepage at the right place. And

540
00:34:12,154 --> 00:34:15,706
our vinification is trying to respect

541
00:34:15,850 --> 00:34:19,418
distaste. We want to have the same taste

542
00:34:19,546 --> 00:34:22,622
from the grapes to the bottle.

543
00:34:22,778 --> 00:34:26,534
And that's also very, I think that's

544
00:34:26,574 --> 00:34:29,994
also a good point on that. That means that,

545
00:34:30,654 --> 00:34:34,470
yeah, we want people to have a part of the

546
00:34:34,502 --> 00:34:38,286
terroir of the place by the taste

547
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:41,662
of our wine. You

548
00:34:41,678 --> 00:34:45,366
said volumes that you said a lot there. And I'm going to

549
00:34:45,390 --> 00:34:48,646
touch on one point, but we are to talk about Etoile. I want to get

550
00:34:48,670 --> 00:34:52,488
to that. Now when you said we

551
00:34:52,536 --> 00:34:55,364
want to have good times, we want people to

552
00:34:56,064 --> 00:34:59,880
equate or recognize that when they're on the French Riviera, Saint Tropez,

553
00:34:59,912 --> 00:35:03,536
Marseilles, nice, Cannes, all those places that when they open a bottle of

554
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,152
domain haute, they feel something and they're going to remember

555
00:35:07,208 --> 00:35:10,232
this feeling. And so when they come back to the states or they go back

556
00:35:10,248 --> 00:35:13,992
to Italy or they go back to Germany where they're coming from and they

557
00:35:14,008 --> 00:35:17,584
see that bottle shape, they have that memory of

558
00:35:17,964 --> 00:35:21,500
that moment. And that's what wine is. No other beverage does

559
00:35:21,532 --> 00:35:24,584
that. In fact, if you're drinking Jack Daniels, you forget.

560
00:35:26,524 --> 00:35:30,020
Right. But let's talk about domain atois because I think an important thing,

561
00:35:30,132 --> 00:35:33,788
and tasting that vertically essay, what was the first vintage of domain etoile.

562
00:35:33,836 --> 00:35:36,344
And what is the objective of domain Etoile?

563
00:35:37,284 --> 00:35:41,132
Etoile. Domain Etoile Etoile Etoile etoile is

564
00:35:41,148 --> 00:35:44,404
a special cuve that we use to

565
00:35:44,444 --> 00:35:48,096
make, you know, only for fun and not for

566
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,404
sale. I mean, it was always at the end of

567
00:35:51,704 --> 00:35:55,040
a blending session with the clumierais, Chateau de sel and Chateau

568
00:35:55,072 --> 00:35:58,872
Masson. Yeah, it was like a joke at the beginning

569
00:35:58,928 --> 00:36:02,724
because so no one ever says that. But

570
00:36:03,784 --> 00:36:07,520
we never wanted to market it to blend

571
00:36:07,712 --> 00:36:10,912
two or three terroirs. We wanted to have a really

572
00:36:10,968 --> 00:36:14,718
special wine on each terroir. But

573
00:36:14,806 --> 00:36:18,510
you know, at one point trying to blend two or three

574
00:36:18,542 --> 00:36:21,594
terroir at the same time would be. I mean, it was,

575
00:36:22,334 --> 00:36:25,878
it was fun for us and it was interesting.

576
00:36:26,006 --> 00:36:28,886
There is a difference. I mean, I'll stop here. I don't want to interrupt you,

577
00:36:28,910 --> 00:36:32,354
but for the listeners, there's a huge amount of

578
00:36:32,774 --> 00:36:36,558
distance between the three chateau all

579
00:36:36,566 --> 00:36:40,364
the way down to x. X, I always say wrong x. Yeah, I mean

580
00:36:40,404 --> 00:36:44,220
you've got quite. Yeah, it's almost 100 km between,

581
00:36:44,292 --> 00:36:48,064
uh, between the, the three of them. And um.

582
00:36:48,364 --> 00:36:51,996
Yeah, so the terroir are really different. Glomere is really by the

583
00:36:52,020 --> 00:36:55,812
sea. Chateau de sail is 300 meters high, totally

584
00:36:55,868 --> 00:36:59,428
different soil, and uh. Chateau massage Bandol. So

585
00:36:59,556 --> 00:37:02,904
yeah, they are really different. Boom. And uh,

586
00:37:03,684 --> 00:37:06,944
I really wanted to make a flagship for dome.

587
00:37:08,544 --> 00:37:12,352
And we've started. The first vintage was

588
00:37:12,448 --> 00:37:15,800
19. It's a really tiny

589
00:37:15,832 --> 00:37:19,544
production, but the

590
00:37:19,584 --> 00:37:22,604
ambition on this, Jose,

591
00:37:25,104 --> 00:37:28,044
is really to have in the same bottle

592
00:37:28,784 --> 00:37:32,484
the complexity of three different terroir.

593
00:37:32,844 --> 00:37:35,384
And also,

594
00:37:36,924 --> 00:37:40,144
I would say, the haute couture style. You know,

595
00:37:40,684 --> 00:37:44,332
when you put all your efforts in

596
00:37:44,428 --> 00:37:47,724
only a really tiny production to make

597
00:37:47,764 --> 00:37:51,068
it as

598
00:37:51,196 --> 00:37:54,876
perfect, I mean, as perfect as you can. I mean,

599
00:37:54,940 --> 00:37:58,548
as perfect as you think it can be, or it should

600
00:37:58,596 --> 00:38:02,030
be. And yeah, we go into

601
00:38:02,102 --> 00:38:05,694
details on everything to make this

602
00:38:05,774 --> 00:38:09,074
really tiny production. And at the end we have a rose.

603
00:38:10,134 --> 00:38:13,974
I mean, you should tell that, but my

604
00:38:14,014 --> 00:38:17,714
ambition is to have a rose that can age,

605
00:38:18,014 --> 00:38:21,834
that have the complexity, that have the texture, that

606
00:38:22,174 --> 00:38:25,730
everything that you can expect from

607
00:38:25,922 --> 00:38:29,714
a grand vin. Yeah, nice wine. And

608
00:38:29,874 --> 00:38:33,306
maybe a wine that you think of

609
00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:36,614
during your day because you are going to open it.

610
00:38:37,114 --> 00:38:40,898
That's right. I want to think about that as well. You know, that's. I just,

611
00:38:40,946 --> 00:38:44,146
it just hit me as you're explaining that if we're in

612
00:38:44,170 --> 00:38:47,874
Bordeaux and we were growing Merlot, Cabernet, Petite Verdot

613
00:38:47,914 --> 00:38:51,614
franc or whatever. Petite Verdot and Cabernet Franc, whatever, we're growing.

614
00:38:52,104 --> 00:38:55,688
The winemaker is blending the character of these grapes. They're from different

615
00:38:55,736 --> 00:38:59,504
terroir, probably. But more importantly, we're blending the character of

616
00:38:59,544 --> 00:39:02,664
that vinification of that grape.

617
00:39:02,784 --> 00:39:06,392
Okay. If we go to Burgundy and we're only growing Pinot noir,

618
00:39:06,448 --> 00:39:10,168
and we, I mean, you would be probably shot and

619
00:39:10,216 --> 00:39:13,044
hung if you took, you know,

620
00:39:13,584 --> 00:39:17,432
Romani Conti or a Bosny Romani district and blended it with a

621
00:39:17,448 --> 00:39:21,230
bone, you know, and you, you call it Burgon, you're going to be shot.

622
00:39:21,302 --> 00:39:24,834
You know, you couldn't do that. And it seems challenging to me

623
00:39:25,134 --> 00:39:28,950
that you are now not blending grapes. Cause of course, you're using different grapes,

624
00:39:28,982 --> 00:39:32,278
but you really are trying to structure three different

625
00:39:32,326 --> 00:39:36,174
terroir, not three different grapes from the same

626
00:39:36,214 --> 00:39:39,926
place or the same grape from two different places. You're

627
00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:43,646
talking about three distinctly different wines

628
00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:47,154
because of where they're grown. And balance that

629
00:39:47,194 --> 00:39:50,334
into etoile. What a challenge.

630
00:39:50,994 --> 00:39:54,426
Because you're picky. I mean, your palate is gonna be very refined to

631
00:39:54,490 --> 00:39:57,934
understand these three terroir. Yeah, but

632
00:39:58,714 --> 00:40:02,298
you've tasted yesterday, side by side, the three states,

633
00:40:02,426 --> 00:40:06,066
and we make them exactly the same way.

634
00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:09,882
Our Vichy culture is pretty much the same. But for me,

635
00:40:09,938 --> 00:40:13,074
the terroir and the type of grapes are really,

636
00:40:14,934 --> 00:40:18,714
as, they have to be really close. I mean, that means that

637
00:40:19,054 --> 00:40:22,766
there are places where we can grow easily,

638
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:26,406
and I think it's the right type of

639
00:40:26,430 --> 00:40:30,238
grape, maybe Grenache and some other

640
00:40:30,286 --> 00:40:33,910
places we cannot. So we need to

641
00:40:33,942 --> 00:40:37,262
adapt the type of grapes, the terroir. Oh, from the

642
00:40:37,278 --> 00:40:38,774
terroir. And

643
00:40:41,714 --> 00:40:44,938
I think it's. I mean, they are so

644
00:40:44,986 --> 00:40:48,786
different. The way we make them is exactly

645
00:40:48,810 --> 00:40:52,050
the same again. And the tasting at the end is so different

646
00:40:52,242 --> 00:40:55,802
that I really feel the characteristic of each

647
00:40:55,858 --> 00:40:59,094
state. So then when it's about

648
00:40:59,434 --> 00:41:03,186
making the blend for Etoile, I know exactly what we

649
00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:07,060
are going to tip. Yeah. Which character we are

650
00:41:07,092 --> 00:41:10,628
going to keep from. From one cuvette to the other, and

651
00:41:10,796 --> 00:41:14,036
to make the, at the end, the final blend of it. And so how has

652
00:41:14,060 --> 00:41:17,904
it toile been received in general by the rose public?

653
00:41:19,804 --> 00:41:23,628
I think it's, again, the world is

654
00:41:23,676 --> 00:41:26,984
large and the production is small also. How much are you making?

655
00:41:27,364 --> 00:41:30,864
5000 bottles. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it's 400

656
00:41:30,904 --> 00:41:34,664
cases. Yeah, yeah. So it's. That's very small.

657
00:41:34,744 --> 00:41:38,496
Yeah. I mean, for the whole world. Yeah. And if you want to leave

658
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,016
some of it in Saint Tropez instead of Marseille and some of Monaco, you've got.

659
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,792
Yeah, exactly. And, uh, no, but the. Yeah, the market,

660
00:41:45,848 --> 00:41:49,524
I mean, people who love our

661
00:41:50,144 --> 00:41:53,888
wines, they are really. I mean, they are really

662
00:41:53,936 --> 00:41:57,674
happy, and, I mean, no complaint at all about

663
00:41:57,794 --> 00:42:01,186
Etoile. Obviously, it's a tiny

664
00:42:01,210 --> 00:42:04,954
production, but I really feel that it's pretty good for

665
00:42:04,994 --> 00:42:08,214
the image of domeno, but the image of Jose in general.

666
00:42:08,514 --> 00:42:12,258
And that was also the goal, if you

667
00:42:12,266 --> 00:42:15,866
can imagine. We're almost out of time. I mean, it's already been

668
00:42:15,890 --> 00:42:19,722
45 minutes. It always ceases

669
00:42:19,778 --> 00:42:23,486
to amaze me or never ceases to amaze me. That's the case. But

670
00:42:23,630 --> 00:42:26,794
the future plans, you're testing grapes,

671
00:42:27,454 --> 00:42:30,806
they've got things like Turriga Nationale and syrah in

672
00:42:30,830 --> 00:42:34,302
Bordeaux. Now, the AOC of the

673
00:42:34,318 --> 00:42:37,834
provence provide for experimentation.

674
00:42:38,134 --> 00:42:41,514
And what are we trying to do? We trying to find

675
00:42:43,334 --> 00:42:46,854
grapes that are acclimated or create

676
00:42:46,894 --> 00:42:50,660
wines of completely different character. What's going on out there for that

677
00:42:50,692 --> 00:42:53,988
in the future? What have you planted, lisse?

678
00:42:54,076 --> 00:42:57,540
Nah, actually, the AOC is working on it because

679
00:42:57,652 --> 00:42:58,584
everybody

680
00:43:01,324 --> 00:43:02,984
is conscious that.

681
00:43:05,444 --> 00:43:08,956
We. Might have to adapt our viticulture and

682
00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:10,744
our sepage.

683
00:43:13,764 --> 00:43:16,944
I think we don't want to wait. I mean, I don't want to wait

684
00:43:17,724 --> 00:43:20,864
for people to make tries on everything.

685
00:43:23,554 --> 00:43:27,162
As I told you, in some places, you

686
00:43:27,178 --> 00:43:31,014
cannot grow Grenache or you cannot grow Cabernet Sauvignon.

687
00:43:31,514 --> 00:43:34,858
So we need to find the

688
00:43:34,946 --> 00:43:37,974
good type of grapes that fits

689
00:43:41,274 --> 00:43:44,294
with our terroir. And

690
00:43:44,954 --> 00:43:48,716
when I talk about terroir, I also talk about, obviously, the

691
00:43:48,740 --> 00:43:52,020
soil, but also the weather, the climate in general.

692
00:43:52,132 --> 00:43:55,184
And so, yeah, we.

693
00:43:55,964 --> 00:43:59,644
We need to know. And. But again, it's a long process.

694
00:43:59,724 --> 00:44:03,516
I mean, it's not for today. It's gonna be for 20 years from now or

695
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:05,584
30 years from now. And

696
00:44:08,684 --> 00:44:12,284
first, to tell you the truth, first, I have

697
00:44:12,324 --> 00:44:15,748
tasted a lot of wines from

698
00:44:15,836 --> 00:44:19,580
new type of grapes. I mean, not new, but the type of

699
00:44:19,612 --> 00:44:23,092
grape that they are using in hot and

700
00:44:23,148 --> 00:44:26,852
dry regions. And when I like

701
00:44:26,908 --> 00:44:29,464
one, I try to

702
00:44:31,644 --> 00:44:35,316
plant some in our terroir and see

703
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:39,132
the result if it does work. So

704
00:44:39,148 --> 00:44:42,566
here's an interesting thought I did. I had a

705
00:44:42,590 --> 00:44:45,934
podcast with a gentleman in the middle of

706
00:44:45,974 --> 00:44:49,526
America in St. Louis, Missouri, and he

707
00:44:49,550 --> 00:44:53,314
decided that he would repropagate, replant

708
00:44:54,054 --> 00:44:57,886
american indigenous wine grapes. Okay, we have

709
00:44:57,910 --> 00:45:01,594
no Vidis vinifera here. It's Vidis Lambrusco.

710
00:45:02,454 --> 00:45:05,956
So he planted, I'm gonna say, 20 different ancient

711
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:09,400
american varieties. And he's in the hills of the

712
00:45:09,432 --> 00:45:12,564
Missouri. And I told him, I said, you know,

713
00:45:13,024 --> 00:45:16,592
you have nothing to work from. You have no history.

714
00:45:16,768 --> 00:45:20,616
You don't even know what these wines are supposed to taste like. You don't

715
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,168
know what they tasted like back then, and you don't know what they'll do. You

716
00:45:24,176 --> 00:45:26,816
don't know what altitude they do better, and you don't know what soil they do

717
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,080
better, and you don't know anything. And I thought, wow, all the

718
00:45:30,112 --> 00:45:33,854
combinations of terroir that could go into this, this winemaking, this guy

719
00:45:33,894 --> 00:45:37,670
has to create. In your case, if you're planning

720
00:45:37,782 --> 00:45:41,422
to reganacinate, say you're sort of got some,

721
00:45:41,518 --> 00:45:45,286
you've got some footing because you understand the terroir, but you don't understand how that

722
00:45:45,310 --> 00:45:49,134
grape is going to do. So it's going to take 20 years to

723
00:45:49,174 --> 00:45:52,790
have some understanding of it. Yeah. You know, between planting

724
00:45:52,862 --> 00:45:56,670
and having the first harvest, it lasts at least four years.

725
00:45:56,702 --> 00:46:00,272
Four years. And then when they are

726
00:46:00,368 --> 00:46:04,184
only four years, they are young, so maybe they are going to be better in

727
00:46:04,224 --> 00:46:07,824
ten years. So, you know, it's all, it's. Everything

728
00:46:07,904 --> 00:46:11,096
is about time in the

729
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,632
wine industry, I would say. But

730
00:46:14,768 --> 00:46:16,244
there is also a thing,

731
00:46:18,224 --> 00:46:21,960
and that what I think what I learned in working

732
00:46:22,032 --> 00:46:25,044
in farming,

733
00:46:25,674 --> 00:46:29,034
you never know. I mean, there are so many things going

734
00:46:29,114 --> 00:46:32,706
up at the same time from

735
00:46:32,770 --> 00:46:36,490
one vintage to the other. You need to change everything.

736
00:46:36,642 --> 00:46:40,174
You need to adapt. Every day is different.

737
00:46:40,674 --> 00:46:44,282
Sometimes it rains in May, sometimes it's June.

738
00:46:44,378 --> 00:46:48,194
Sometimes it doesn't rain. Sometimes it's

739
00:46:48,234 --> 00:46:51,922
hot, sometimes it's cold. So everything

740
00:46:51,978 --> 00:46:55,682
is different. So, yeah, when you need to change

741
00:46:55,858 --> 00:46:59,442
something, like the type of grape, I mean, it's a big job.

742
00:46:59,498 --> 00:47:03,330
So it's a big job. We just need to start now

743
00:47:03,522 --> 00:47:07,130
to be able to adapt our vitriculture, adapt

744
00:47:07,162 --> 00:47:10,666
to our blending if we need, and if we

745
00:47:10,690 --> 00:47:14,226
don't, it's okay. I mean, we've. We would have learned a

746
00:47:14,250 --> 00:47:18,034
lot. Thank you for spending the time this morning. I know you

747
00:47:18,034 --> 00:47:21,164
have a full day ahead of you. You're going to be back in this facility

748
00:47:21,244 --> 00:47:25,020
tonight for another dinner. How long is this trip

749
00:47:25,052 --> 00:47:28,812
for you? Is it just LA? Are you going to be. No, actually, I

750
00:47:28,828 --> 00:47:32,596
was in New York. New York already? Yeah, last

751
00:47:32,660 --> 00:47:36,396
week. And I'm going to move to San Francisco and back to

752
00:47:36,420 --> 00:47:39,788
France. Wow. I mean, it's springtime. I think I need to.

753
00:47:39,836 --> 00:47:43,420
Yeah, that's right. The season started, right? I mean,

754
00:47:43,452 --> 00:47:47,140
yeah. The beaches of Saint Tropez are full. Yeah. And, you know, at

755
00:47:47,172 --> 00:47:50,498
this time of the year, I mean, in the vineyard, we

756
00:47:50,546 --> 00:47:54,374
have really a big job to do, and we are

757
00:47:54,674 --> 00:47:58,378
preparing, obviously, the harvest. But, you know,

758
00:47:58,426 --> 00:48:02,130
when we work well, between May and

759
00:48:02,282 --> 00:48:05,970
end of June, we are almost done for the harvest. I mean, we

760
00:48:06,002 --> 00:48:09,466
made. If the job is well done at this time, we

761
00:48:09,490 --> 00:48:12,930
made 85% of the job. It's Bud break right now.

762
00:48:13,002 --> 00:48:16,278
Exactly. Well, thank you for being here this morning. Thank you.

763
00:48:16,326 --> 00:48:18,234
Cheers. Thank you.

764
00:48:27,094 --> 00:48:30,470
Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum, Cary. And don't forget to

765
00:48:30,502 --> 00:48:33,654
subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way.

766
00:48:33,814 --> 00:48:37,134
Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.