He Was Told To Get His Affairs In Order. Not So Fast Says Jean-Noel of Chateau Potelle

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We had a visitor and he asked me, how did you rate

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wine? Well, I think rating is an American disease. You

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rate a Super bowl, there's a winner and a loser. But

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in my world, you don't rate emotions. And wine is something that

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gives you emotions. You don't rate pleasure. When you make

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love to your wife, you don't say, honey, it was 87. I hope tomorrow we

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can make 95. Okay, sit back and grab a

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glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are at an away game

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today way up in the Napa Valley, about to have a conversation with Jean

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Noel Fourmeaux, an old friend in the business.

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Hey, have a listen to a couple of shows that just released. One was Zach

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Armand and he is a importer of Armenian wines into America. It's an

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incredible story of a young man who wants to get into this business. Have a

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listen to that and give us a good review. If you don't have a good

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review, don't bother doing it. Please subscribe. That's how us

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podcasters keep our egos in check. We need the listeners, but not

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why we're here. Here to talk to Jean Noel again

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because it's been so long and it's so great to be here. Welcome to the

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show. Well, thank you very much. It has been a long time. It's been a

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long time. And this is Chateau Potelle and I was

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looking at our newsletter and we had engaged each other

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in 1998. That's

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a long time ago. Oh, no, I'm still very young. Oh,

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yeah. I appreciate that because I

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agree with you. And we were, you know,

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this particularly, the wine industry is so

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confused right now. And I love the story. I just love the

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fact that here you were, you came to America. Well, let's go over that.

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For your family's Bordelaise. Yes.

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And you were born in the wine trade. Yes. That's unusual,

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isn't it, for being America to

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pick up roots and leave to come to Napa? Yeah, I

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think it's unusual, but my friends in France,

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even before I came to America, told me all the time that I was

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not completely French. You know, I

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think France is fantastic. It's an absolutely great country, many

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traditions, but the

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French were and probably are a little more, but

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less than before, a little narrow minded.

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And I created my first business by accident

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when I was 21 and it was a success.

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And in France

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when I sold it, because I decided to come here

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because I had been sent by the French government To spy.

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And I decided to come here. I told

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my dad when he said, why do you sell your business and you go

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away? I said, because in France, you need to be 60 years

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old to have a right to talk at the table. That's early.

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And I have something to say. So I am lazy and I go to

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where I can do something at 30 and not being, you

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know, check every two seconds.

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So it's a beautiful country, but it has so much tradition

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that sometimes it's difficult to go out

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of it. At least at my time, it was difficult to go out of

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this tradition. And I needed fresh air. Has it

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changed at all, you think? I would say. My friends now say that it's

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not 60 years old to have a right to talk, but it's 50. It's 50.

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So. So, yes, we made from progress. Yeah, for him, he

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gets to speak. But,

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you know, it has been fantastic because

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when I came here in 72, first for the wine, then in

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1980, I love that pioneer

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spirit that exists in America. I love the fact

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that you can if you want.

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It's not the rules, our rules, you know,

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remember, I've been here now 44 years. So it's a long

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time. And America has changed as well as French had changed in 44 years.

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But at that time in France, you know, it was. If you are not part

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of a system, you cannot really go. And

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I was born in the vineyard. But there

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were so many things that you had to do, because

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your grandfather does it that way, did it that way,

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and I respect my grandfather, but, you know, you have to go. Go by

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the. The rule of the time. Yes. So

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here it was good for me because nobody gave

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a. About my grandfather. They never heard of your

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grandfather. Yeah, so. So, yeah, I

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moved. Were you in the wine business before you left? What you sold, was

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it wine or was it something else? No, I was official wine taste,

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but I was not. The business I created had nothing to do with wine, really.

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I have some customer in wine, but it was just an idea and it

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worked. So. But that's why also I wanted to sell it and

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come back into my roots, which was the wine, because I have never

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left the wine. It just that that business was

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just a crazy idea. It worked and.

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And you never looked back, huh?

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No. Do you go back very often? Yes, I love it. I.

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I love France. I think it's a beautiful country. People are

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absolutely delightful. You know,

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it's interesting because when I arrived

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here in the United States in 1980, people were telling me, oh, France you must

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be arrogant. And I say, have you been to Boston lately?

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But, you know, all these are pictures of things.

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But I take customers because, as you know,

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we sell our wines only to private people. We are not in stores or

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restaurants. So every year I take customers traveling with me

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in France, in South Africa, in Argentina.

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And when I take them to Bordeaux,

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they say, wow, we did not expect that. It's not the

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image, the idea we have of France. We have France a little more

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contrarian, a little more rigid.

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And no, it's not true at all. The people are

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generous, they're hospitable, they want to share.

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Because our culture of wine is very different. You know, it is

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culture. It is a culture for us. And it's not a rating or it's not

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to try to have poems to please this or that writer.

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It is because you open a bottle because you have a friend who just

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arrived, and what the best way to share a good bottle than

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with a friend. So it's a very different culture,

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and I love that culture to a culture we don't have here. It's an

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interesting cultural divide.

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I'm jealous of the French culture. I would live in Paris if I could.

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And I'm jealous of the structure, the protection of the

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wine, the protection of the butter, protection of the. Of the

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cheese, the appellation control type

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idea. And it's. It's always been that

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America, Napa is the new World. And you can do,

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as you said, anything you want. You come and try, and you can grow Zinfandel

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if you want, in the Napa Valley and see if it works. And that's.

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It's. It's. I guess it's always. The grass is always greener,

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you know, on the other side, when you look at it. Yeah. So in

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France, definitely, there are some contraints. It's

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interesting because just a few minutes ago, I was talking with some

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customers, club members who are visiting, but they

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were in Burgundy in October. They made a bike trip,

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and they told me, gee, I did not realize that in France you cannot buy

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grapes. I said, no. Do you know why?

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They understood that it was to protect the

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terroir. I said, yes, it's to protect where the wine comes

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from. So that when you buy a bottle of

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Pollini, Montrachet, Le Pucelle, you

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know that it's coming from there. When you buy a bottle of

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Leoville Poiferet from Saint Julien in Bordeaux, they don't

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buy grapes. They cannot buy grapes. Therefore, if they have a bad

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year, they will make less Wine, but they cannot buy grape

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to compensate. Here you buy grapes,

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you melt that. And finally, that's

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misleading to the consumer because it's still the same label. Let's say X

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Caber, called Cabernet Sauvignon, but

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it can be 25% of cabernet from

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the Central coast or any other appellation. Or it can be

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just because you have more business and you want to increase, you

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blend something that is no longer your identity. That's why

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all the wines of Chateau Botel are vineyard designated.

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We don't blend anything else than that vineyard. And if a year is

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bad, too bad. But we are not buying grapes. We are not

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blending. Because I want

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people to trust what. The product that we deliver

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year after year, and some years, they are not as great than the

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year before. That's the beauty of nature and the beauty of wine.

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Do you think that's a. I'm glad you brought that up. It's an important part

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of the difference of the industry between countries, mostly Old

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World versus New World. But that for the

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consumer, that's. It is a little

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misleading because, like, I just learned that the class. The.

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The Madoc classification, 1855, is classified

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the chateau, not the vineyard. And then the

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classification of Santa Milon is the. The ground as well. And

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so it seemed a little misleading that. That a chateau like Lagrange

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or something could go by grapes from anywhere down the street and put

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it in their blend and still cannot. They cannot. They can't. No,

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no, because that's the classification. The classification of

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1985. Excuse me. 1885

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was made on reputation of the wine at the time. Right.

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And price, thinking that price was following reputation.

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But you cannot buy grapes in Bordeaux. Non, navigate my family

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chateau, we cannot buy grapes. It's still legal. Oh, yeah, you're right. Okay, so

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what I'm thinking is that the, The. It could be a vineyard you

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own, but down. Absolutely. Yeah,

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absolutely. So it's. So it's still,

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you know, if you produce Leoville Poifere or Chateau

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Margaux, you produce that

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from what you own, right? Not what you buy. Yes. Okay,

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that's interesting, but I, So I wondered because, you know,

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America, we're not culturally.

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Culturally attuned to wine. Have you seen a shift in

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that since you've been here for 44 years and you're right on

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Highway 29 and you see the traffic, you see the

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consumer traffic and the tourism is it. Has there been a shift

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to appreciate finer wines? So is

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this too slow? I think in America, but you Know, evolution of

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taste is always slower. Yeah. And because many

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of my customers, or customers your age, what

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do they drink in. In college? Landfills? Rose.

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The younger generation drink more. The white Zin fondant.

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Yes. And this is great because the more you drink, the

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more you know what you are going to like. I believe

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that in order to understand wine and your

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taste, you need to drink and you drink

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diversity. Because if you are mono vintage or

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mono sepiage, mono varietal,

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you don't know. It's like staying in California and not traveling to

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Tennessee. Other people are still American, but they are goddamn different.

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That's true. Because the story, the tradition, the food, the hospitality,

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all these things are different, yet they are still American.

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But you need to travel to understand the differences. Or you

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need to taste more different wines in order to understand the

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beauty, the panache of a wine.

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That you have so many differences. And that a cabernet is not a

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Cabernet, it's a Cabernet from Chateaubratet, it's a Cabernet from

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Faumu, it's a Cabernet from that. Because technically,

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what we have to do is respect the birthplace. Where is it coming

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from? You know, I truly believe that

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what makes us individual, richer is that

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we have a birthplace. And again, the people of Tennessee are

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so damn different. As a matter of fact, you can say in America, you say

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in America, a girl, you can take a girl out

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of the south, but you cannot take the south out of a girl. Which

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is a good thing, I think. Okay. I think it's a good thing. But

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that's what terroir is about. And. And that's why me, I've

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been 43 years now, because last year,

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1920, 23, we celebrated our

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40th vintage. Four. Zero. Wow, that's a

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long whatever.

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So I am a Mount Video guy. All our wines are coming from

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Mount Vidor. They are estate designation from Mount Vidor. Each

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parcel. And I'm not buying grapes to blend to that

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because I'm producing not a Napa Valley, I'm producing a Mount Video in

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Napa Valley. Was that your philosophy when you came here? Now, you came from

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Bordeaux, so you understood that that was very important part of our wine trade.

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But you, you go to the supermarket today, and there's none of that, Right? None

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of the thing in the supermarket is. Is designated the way you're talking

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about. You know, some things are, but they're very mono. The palate is

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very monolithic. It just kind of up and down. Oops, up and

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down. Of a supermarket. It's the same. It doesn't

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matter what the brand is, it's got the same. And have you

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felt that impact in Chateau Patel or your

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customers are driven by your brands. You don't sell to restaurants,

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which is very interesting. You don't sell retail. It's all club.

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That's the fascinating thing. So you probably haven't felt this

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00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,260
turn. So culturally, wine is not American,

233
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,192
it's a choice. Then wine

234
00:14:27,256 --> 00:14:30,648
became fashionable in America, which

235
00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:34,552
means. I can tell you a funny story that I

236
00:14:34,576 --> 00:14:37,528
am invited by one of our customers who is an

237
00:14:37,584 --> 00:14:40,580
extremely successful person,

238
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,568
billionaire because for the

239
00:14:44,704 --> 00:14:48,312
warming house. And when I

240
00:14:48,336 --> 00:14:52,152
arrive, this is a person that buys around $10,000 of

241
00:14:52,176 --> 00:14:55,702
wine from us here. And when I arrived in the new house, he

242
00:14:55,726 --> 00:14:59,254
had a wall 15 meters long for the wine

243
00:14:59,302 --> 00:15:02,982
cellar. And I can see cases, wooden cases

244
00:15:03,086 --> 00:15:06,678
of ex wine here. You know, big

245
00:15:06,734 --> 00:15:08,970
name, 1500 dollars bottle

246
00:15:10,510 --> 00:15:14,182
brand and you know, vintage after vintage. And I look at

247
00:15:14,206 --> 00:15:17,862
him, I say, where is your VGs? And he said, oh no, your

248
00:15:17,886 --> 00:15:21,612
stuff is good. I drink it. And I said, but have

249
00:15:21,636 --> 00:15:25,356
you tasted these wines? No. I said let's open it.

250
00:15:25,428 --> 00:15:28,668
I know you are going to break my case. Oh,

251
00:15:28,764 --> 00:15:32,220
and finally my biggest pride at

252
00:15:32,260 --> 00:15:36,028
Potel is after 43 years here, I have no wine

253
00:15:36,044 --> 00:15:39,692
on ebay. But you can find all these wines on

254
00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:43,004
ebay because they are glamorous wine that people

255
00:15:43,092 --> 00:15:46,532
buy fifteen hundred dollars and things like that. What

256
00:15:46,556 --> 00:15:50,324
interesting thought. And this is the wine that you can buy on auction. Yeah, you

257
00:15:50,332 --> 00:15:53,828
can go to next this weekend auction on Art

258
00:15:53,884 --> 00:15:57,396
Davis and Art. And you are going to find Screaming Eagle,

259
00:15:57,508 --> 00:16:01,300
Arlong Bon, all these wines that are prestigious wines

260
00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:05,044
but nobody buy to drink. That's an interesting

261
00:16:05,092 --> 00:16:08,484
thought. And me, I don't do that. I tell my customer,

262
00:16:08,532 --> 00:16:12,324
me, I open a bottle of wine. A bottle of wine is for drinking

263
00:16:12,372 --> 00:16:16,104
whatever. It's an Aubrey on at $600 or Margot at

264
00:16:16,112 --> 00:16:19,700
$1,500. It's for drinking? Yes. It's not for

265
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,392
ego. And that's a problem is that a lot of wine has

266
00:16:24,416 --> 00:16:28,264
been purchased for status and ego. Do you think the French

267
00:16:28,312 --> 00:16:31,896
did that? No, we drink too much. I mean the, the

268
00:16:31,968 --> 00:16:35,752
like. Well, the other night I. I'll admit. Well, first of all, when I

269
00:16:35,776 --> 00:16:39,416
sold the company and because of coid, we were doing incredibly

270
00:16:39,448 --> 00:16:42,812
well, I was buying all kinds of stuff because they would buy whatever I told

271
00:16:42,836 --> 00:16:46,124
them to buy. And so I snuck in some Cheval Blanc and some

272
00:16:46,212 --> 00:16:50,012
Angelou and stuff like that. And so the buyer didn't want

273
00:16:50,036 --> 00:16:53,596
any of it. He just wanted my stuff that I sold for $12 to $15.

274
00:16:53,748 --> 00:16:56,892
And I end up with 2,500 bottles of

275
00:16:57,076 --> 00:17:00,876
classified growth Bordeaux and some Grand Cru Burgundy, et cetera.

276
00:17:01,068 --> 00:17:04,700
And I almost bit, I almost succumbed to

277
00:17:04,740 --> 00:17:08,420
that mentality because it's in my. I built the cellar in the house.

278
00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:12,052
You can walk in, you can see this, and I have it all displayed.

279
00:17:12,196 --> 00:17:15,812
And I tell myself, boy, if I open that I won't have it

280
00:17:15,836 --> 00:17:19,652
anymore. And that's not a good mentality. No, no,

281
00:17:19,676 --> 00:17:23,284
it's a terrible mentality. No. Because you need to enjoy

282
00:17:23,332 --> 00:17:26,724
that bottle. That's right. What's the point of looking at it? Absolutely. May have a

283
00:17:26,732 --> 00:17:30,532
different attitude. When my friends arrive at home, I tell them,

284
00:17:30,556 --> 00:17:34,036
go to the seller, take what you want. Oh, wow.

285
00:17:34,228 --> 00:17:38,052
Knowing the fact that at my house, I only bring the

286
00:17:38,076 --> 00:17:41,240
wine that I consider ready to be drank.

287
00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:45,108
Yes. So so far we are drinking 1990s

288
00:17:45,204 --> 00:17:48,932
Bordeaux. Wow. Beautiful. You cannot stick it

289
00:17:48,956 --> 00:17:51,960
to any 10 because it's still in the warehouse edging.

290
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:55,572
So. But I think, you

291
00:17:55,596 --> 00:17:59,354
know that the freedom, it's open a bottle

292
00:17:59,402 --> 00:18:03,194
that you know you are going to discover and, and you enjoy.

293
00:18:03,242 --> 00:18:06,906
And that's the thing that I, I think why Chateau

294
00:18:06,938 --> 00:18:10,570
hotel customers are so loyal to our brand is because

295
00:18:10,610 --> 00:18:14,154
first, our wines are good. My motto is

296
00:18:14,322 --> 00:18:18,106
perfection without pretension. It's not, you know,

297
00:18:18,178 --> 00:18:21,946
okay, making, making your job good. It's, it's normal

298
00:18:21,978 --> 00:18:25,614
that you make your job good. My job is to make wine. Okay. I'm a

299
00:18:25,622 --> 00:18:28,798
perfectionist. I make every bottle of wine here

300
00:18:28,934 --> 00:18:32,606
because we've, we know with me blending it

301
00:18:32,758 --> 00:18:36,590
and that's it. I mean, now let's enjoy where did

302
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:40,446
all this. I mean, yes, the classification of 1855

303
00:18:40,518 --> 00:18:44,158
created the five growth and blah, blah, blah. But even

304
00:18:44,214 --> 00:18:47,934
today when I tasted at Ingle Nook, I tasted a $265

305
00:18:48,022 --> 00:18:51,230
bottle of Rubicon, I tasted a 395

306
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:55,020
bottle of $ bottle of Cathiard. And

307
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,704
you know, and then when I opened the Cheval Blanc the other night for my

308
00:18:58,712 --> 00:19:02,384
wife's birthday, you know, a thousand dollars worth retail, and my

309
00:19:02,392 --> 00:19:06,128
son in law says, do you really think that it's, you know, 50

310
00:19:06,184 --> 00:19:09,904
times better than a, you know, if 20 times better than a $50 wine or

311
00:19:09,912 --> 00:19:13,664
whatever. And I said, no, I think that'd be hard to justify that, you

312
00:19:13,672 --> 00:19:17,520
know, a good quality $50 wine. But you can tell your friends

313
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,550
you drank Cheval Blanc. So in between,

314
00:19:21,170 --> 00:19:24,890
you know, that idea, how is that developed in France

315
00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:28,682
that, you know, we're going to. Because you can't cost that much more to

316
00:19:28,706 --> 00:19:32,490
make Cheval Blanc or Lafitte or anybody else

317
00:19:32,650 --> 00:19:35,914
than its neighbor, which is using barrels and

318
00:19:36,082 --> 00:19:39,866
pruning the vineyards the same way. Where does that pretension

319
00:19:39,898 --> 00:19:43,670
come from? So I think, Paul, in our business,

320
00:19:44,540 --> 00:19:48,360
there is a huge aspect that is the cost of quality.

321
00:19:49,260 --> 00:19:52,980
You can go to Chanel in Paris or in New York

322
00:19:53,020 --> 00:19:56,820
or San Francisco and buy a suit. It costs you

323
00:19:56,940 --> 00:20:00,756
10,000 bucks or something, whatever it is. You go to Hong

324
00:20:00,788 --> 00:20:04,212
Kong and you buy a

325
00:20:04,236 --> 00:20:08,036
Chanel suit on the window, which is an imitation, but it looks

326
00:20:08,068 --> 00:20:11,694
exactly the same. But yet when you take your

327
00:20:11,782 --> 00:20:15,374
sleeve upside down, you know, and you look at the inside of a

328
00:20:15,382 --> 00:20:18,730
sleeve, it's not the same. No,

329
00:20:19,030 --> 00:20:22,170
luxury is in the detail. And the detail

330
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:26,350
are expensive. That's why a bottle of wine is

331
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:30,190
expensive. Take an example we do

332
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:33,790
here at Chateaubratel. Free Cabernets. The

333
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:36,924
VGS Cabernet Mount

334
00:20:36,972 --> 00:20:40,172
Vida cost $215 a

335
00:20:40,196 --> 00:20:43,404
bottle. The FOMO

336
00:20:43,532 --> 00:20:47,276
Red cost 3.75. The same.

337
00:20:47,348 --> 00:20:50,892
Or, excuse me, it's the same bottle. Okay. Except it's not the

338
00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:54,716
same grape served there. It's not the same inside, same winemaker.

339
00:20:54,828 --> 00:20:58,492
For example, in a ton of

340
00:20:58,516 --> 00:21:02,006
grapes, Cabernet, you could extract

341
00:21:02,148 --> 00:21:05,858
160 gallons. The

342
00:21:05,914 --> 00:21:09,026
fo I extract 118

343
00:21:09,178 --> 00:21:12,418
gallons. Wow. 40% less. Which means

344
00:21:12,474 --> 00:21:16,258
basically my ton of grapes is a third of the price

345
00:21:16,314 --> 00:21:19,346
already. Yeah. In the Cabernet

346
00:21:19,378 --> 00:21:21,938
VGS, we extract around

347
00:21:22,074 --> 00:21:24,150
142 gallons.

348
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:28,914
Still 22% less. Yes. So a

349
00:21:28,922 --> 00:21:32,254
lot. What we do in Potel 2, we extract around

350
00:21:32,342 --> 00:21:36,046
152 gallons. So

351
00:21:36,198 --> 00:21:39,690
that's a cost of quality. Yes. Why is that?

352
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:42,930
If you look at a berry of grapes,

353
00:21:43,670 --> 00:21:46,170
I want berry to be round,

354
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:50,222
small and uniform in terms of

355
00:21:50,246 --> 00:21:53,966
color, sometimes because of the weather, you arrive

356
00:21:53,998 --> 00:21:57,782
at harvest and you have half a berry that has a

357
00:21:57,806 --> 00:22:01,574
brown. The skin is no longer red is brown because

358
00:22:01,662 --> 00:22:04,970
it got like you. When you go to the beach and you have a sunburn,

359
00:22:06,030 --> 00:22:09,126
that part of a sunburn of a grape

360
00:22:09,238 --> 00:22:12,902
berry is no longer going to contribute of

361
00:22:12,926 --> 00:22:16,730
tannins and color, but it's going to contribute in juice.

362
00:22:17,710 --> 00:22:21,350
But I'm not interested in juice. I am interested in the

363
00:22:21,390 --> 00:22:25,022
whole thing. The juice, if it has the tannin and the

364
00:22:25,046 --> 00:22:28,734
color that goes with it. Okay. That's why we have to

365
00:22:28,742 --> 00:22:32,238
make that drastic selection. That takes time,

366
00:22:32,294 --> 00:22:35,726
energy, money. It takes time. It's money. It's grapes

367
00:22:35,758 --> 00:22:39,422
that are delicious, by the way, because we put them in our

368
00:22:39,446 --> 00:22:43,150
bottle too. They are delicious. But when you want to go to the

369
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:46,670
Highest luxury product. There is no excuse.

370
00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:50,572
You have to be consistent in your parameters of

371
00:22:50,596 --> 00:22:53,868
quality. And therefore, for FOMO Red, I'm using

372
00:22:53,924 --> 00:22:57,660
118 ton. 18 gallons per ton. Wow. Big

373
00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:01,516
difference. So it start there, it goes in the vineyard.

374
00:23:01,708 --> 00:23:05,468
Because you want your grapes to be completely balanced

375
00:23:05,644 --> 00:23:09,340
at some years, it means that you need to do what we call

376
00:23:09,380 --> 00:23:13,100
green harvest, which means harvesting some

377
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:16,822
fruit, letting down some fruit before the

378
00:23:16,846 --> 00:23:20,070
total verisin. Because you want the balance of the

379
00:23:20,110 --> 00:23:23,926
vine to be beautiful. Because it's

380
00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:27,430
like you. Sometimes you work too hard, you are

381
00:23:27,470 --> 00:23:31,158
tired. You have no longer the same

382
00:23:31,294 --> 00:23:34,530
energy and concentration and peace of mind.

383
00:23:34,910 --> 00:23:38,758
You want to give your vine that peace of mind, that

384
00:23:38,814 --> 00:23:42,316
energy to satisfy every berries

385
00:23:42,428 --> 00:23:46,120
on that, on that vines. And

386
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:50,140
that is not necessarily the case every year. No.

387
00:23:50,260 --> 00:23:54,108
Therefore, the job starts in the vineyard because

388
00:23:54,164 --> 00:23:58,012
I want everybody of the cluster to

389
00:23:58,036 --> 00:24:01,564
be there as good as the other guys, so that it doesn't diminish the quality

390
00:24:01,612 --> 00:24:05,290
of the neighbor. So it's a lot of work.

391
00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:09,182
Was this your founding philosophy? I mean, it would. Look, I'm going

392
00:24:09,206 --> 00:24:13,050
to shock you because I don't think it's. I don't think it was

393
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:17,550
unusual for the price, but in 1998, we

394
00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:21,278
sold that Zinn for 9.99 and you could

395
00:24:21,334 --> 00:24:24,798
get extra at 899. Now that's a huge

396
00:24:24,894 --> 00:24:28,494
difference. I'm going to suggest that this is. I don't know what the

397
00:24:28,502 --> 00:24:31,912
current Zin sells for. What does it sell for? Okay, so

398
00:24:32,046 --> 00:24:35,444
I'm just guessing that's just a sign of the times and the cost of manufacturing

399
00:24:35,492 --> 00:24:38,660
and all the other things that go along with it. That was the retail. But

400
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:42,548
also at that time it was a Chateau

401
00:24:42,564 --> 00:24:46,360
Botel Zinfandel. It was not the VGS Chateau bottle.

402
00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:51,460
Now all our wines are vgs. Okay, tell me that story again

403
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:54,868
because I think it's important for the listeners to hear the difference. Because when I

404
00:24:54,924 --> 00:24:58,622
met you in 1995 or 1998 and we did that transaction,

405
00:24:58,686 --> 00:25:02,350
we wrote the story about you coming from Bordeaux and

406
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:06,190
starting the vineyard doing 275 acres, whatever it was. Yeah. So, but this is not

407
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:09,694
the same place. No. And it's not the same

408
00:25:09,782 --> 00:25:13,470
philosophy. VGS for me. So first of all,

409
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:17,326
the story of VGs, how did it arrive? The name Chateau

410
00:25:17,358 --> 00:25:20,958
Botel, the name of the. Historically, the name of the winery is

411
00:25:21,014 --> 00:25:24,130
my 900 years old family chateau in France.

412
00:25:24,980 --> 00:25:28,524
The reason I selected my name is because, honestly,

413
00:25:28,652 --> 00:25:32,120
I did not want my name on the label and

414
00:25:32,580 --> 00:25:36,332
because I thought it was representing my values and my French

415
00:25:36,396 --> 00:25:40,108
traditions. And I was arriving in a country that had no

416
00:25:40,164 --> 00:25:43,708
mentor. I was not an expat. I had absolutely no

417
00:25:43,764 --> 00:25:47,532
clue, except that I knew I was in a Pavari making wine. But

418
00:25:47,556 --> 00:25:50,974
I was not expected by anybody. Nobody was there to

419
00:25:51,132 --> 00:25:54,650
greet you at the train station. At the train station and tell me, this is

420
00:25:54,690 --> 00:25:58,074
our country. This is how it works, you know? Yes. I had no credit card.

421
00:25:58,122 --> 00:26:01,562
I had no permit. I had no id. I had nothing. When I rented a

422
00:26:01,586 --> 00:26:05,290
house, I had to pay 18 months cash upfront.

423
00:26:05,450 --> 00:26:09,050
When I bought a car, I had to pay the car full in cash because

424
00:26:09,090 --> 00:26:12,746
I had no credit card and checkbook. And they did not believe me, you know,

425
00:26:12,818 --> 00:26:16,592
So I needed wow. And I had no credit reference, so.

426
00:26:16,746 --> 00:26:20,500
So I started on the tough way. So I think I took that

427
00:26:20,540 --> 00:26:23,892
name because it was my values, my tradition. Then one

428
00:26:23,916 --> 00:26:27,652
day at the winery, we had

429
00:26:27,676 --> 00:26:31,316
a visitor. And he asked me, he said, when you are official

430
00:26:31,388 --> 00:26:35,124
wine tester for French government, how did you rate

431
00:26:35,212 --> 00:26:38,440
wine? Well, I think rating is an American disease.

432
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:42,888
You rate a Super bowl with a winner and a loser.

433
00:26:42,964 --> 00:26:46,208
It's easy, right? But in my world, you don't rate

434
00:26:46,264 --> 00:26:49,840
emotions. And wine is something that gives you

435
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,712
emotions. You don't rate pleasure. Great. As

436
00:26:53,736 --> 00:26:57,392
I told one day to. That's a great point, wine writer. When you

437
00:26:57,416 --> 00:27:01,056
make love to your wife, you don't say, honey, it was 87. I hope tomorrow

438
00:27:01,088 --> 00:27:04,816
we can make 95. Okay, it's not like that. That it works.

439
00:27:04,848 --> 00:27:08,192
Okay. We have some days we are better and do

440
00:27:08,216 --> 00:27:12,050
better. So. So I

441
00:27:12,090 --> 00:27:14,930
look at the guy, I did not want to say. And finally I say, good

442
00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:18,802
shit, bad sheet. I said, but this is very good shit.

443
00:27:18,946 --> 00:27:22,466
I say, oh, no problem. Whatever. I go to sleep.

444
00:27:22,658 --> 00:27:26,130
And the day after, we had three times more

445
00:27:26,170 --> 00:27:29,790
visitors at the testing room. So I go to see

446
00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:33,390
and I ask the people, I say, what are you doing here?

447
00:27:34,010 --> 00:27:37,662
Why so many people? And one guy look at me say, we heard it was

448
00:27:37,686 --> 00:27:41,294
very good shit. We want some. So then I decided,

449
00:27:41,422 --> 00:27:45,214
that's hilarious. I decided to change the

450
00:27:45,222 --> 00:27:49,022
name of the winery to Good Shit to Chateau Potelle

451
00:27:49,086 --> 00:27:52,126
My French Values and tradition. And add

452
00:27:52,278 --> 00:27:55,530
VGA's very good sheet mimic and education. Oh, come on.

453
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:59,410
So that's the way it went. Now that is hilarious.

454
00:28:00,150 --> 00:28:03,550
And that became basically a switch

455
00:28:04,130 --> 00:28:07,962
in our production. Yes. And in our wines. So

456
00:28:07,986 --> 00:28:11,674
that the wines that were wearing the very good sheet label.

457
00:28:11,722 --> 00:28:15,194
Yes. Had to be the top,

458
00:28:15,282 --> 00:28:19,050
top, top quality. Yes. When we made the first time, we are

459
00:28:19,090 --> 00:28:22,778
still. We are. We're doing some VGs for Chardonnay and Cabernet.

460
00:28:22,874 --> 00:28:26,270
We're still doing some of the other wines

461
00:28:26,610 --> 00:28:30,296
that were not on VGS label. Now

462
00:28:30,368 --> 00:28:33,960
everything is on VGS label. So the Chata Potelle label is no

463
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,736
longer exists. The VGS Chata, which was a great label,

464
00:28:37,768 --> 00:28:41,304
I remember, great, beautiful label. But now the label is

465
00:28:41,392 --> 00:28:44,792
VGA Chateau. That is a fascinating story.

466
00:28:44,976 --> 00:28:48,232
And so you mentioned before we started that

467
00:28:48,336 --> 00:28:52,024
you. I said, is this the same 275 acres,

468
00:28:52,072 --> 00:28:55,812
276 acres that you started with? And you said no, because you, you

469
00:28:55,836 --> 00:28:59,524
were, you fell ill at some point and you needed to liquidate everything. And what,

470
00:28:59,612 --> 00:29:03,236
how, how stressful was that to you to.

471
00:29:03,308 --> 00:29:07,012
To take all of this effort, starting with landing here

472
00:29:07,036 --> 00:29:10,644
and no one to pick you up at the train station, to selling

473
00:29:10,692 --> 00:29:14,484
off everything. You had to hopefully survive at

474
00:29:14,492 --> 00:29:18,212
that point. But, you know, I was dying. Yes, we were

475
00:29:18,236 --> 00:29:21,972
dying. I was not even hopefully dying, leaving because the

476
00:29:21,996 --> 00:29:25,676
doctors say, put your things in order. So

477
00:29:25,828 --> 00:29:28,280
I just did not want my children to

478
00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:32,732
face. Because they were still, you know, in their

479
00:29:32,836 --> 00:29:35,480
20s. So I did not want them to

480
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:41,004
confront that difficult world. At that time, we

481
00:29:41,092 --> 00:29:44,812
were 50% partner in a winery in Argentina. We

482
00:29:44,836 --> 00:29:48,348
had a winery in Paso Robles. We had Chateau Botel. So I

483
00:29:48,404 --> 00:29:52,112
decided to sell everything but the name, because the

484
00:29:52,136 --> 00:29:55,712
name Chateau hat is my 900 year old familiar chateau. And I did not want

485
00:29:55,736 --> 00:29:59,392
anybody to take that. So I

486
00:29:59,416 --> 00:30:03,232
sold everything, went through my. That was at my

487
00:30:03,256 --> 00:30:06,800
second cancer. It was in 2007. And then in

488
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,560
2009 I had my third cancer. And

489
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,580
then I was proposed to follow

490
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,952
an experiment. And that experiment, for

491
00:30:18,976 --> 00:30:22,792
me, saved my life. Amazing. So I

492
00:30:22,816 --> 00:30:26,296
am now exhausted physically,

493
00:30:26,408 --> 00:30:29,912
psychologically, emotionally, because six years of. Seven years of

494
00:30:29,936 --> 00:30:33,500
treatment is exhausting. But I was alive.

495
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,992
And when I went back on track and I

496
00:30:38,016 --> 00:30:41,800
was happy and good again, I said, what do I do with my life?

497
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,102
The only thing I know is wine. Yeah. So I restarted

498
00:30:45,296 --> 00:30:48,898
again, basically in 2000. I bought this building

499
00:30:48,954 --> 00:30:52,674
in 2012 to recreate completely

500
00:30:52,722 --> 00:30:56,530
the experience of Chateaubortain back to the

501
00:30:56,570 --> 00:31:00,290
vineyards so that I'm still on Mount Video. And

502
00:31:00,330 --> 00:31:04,018
basically now we are here and there. Did you go back to the.

503
00:31:04,074 --> 00:31:07,282
To who you sold to and say, hey, I want to buy it back maybe?

504
00:31:07,346 --> 00:31:10,834
No, because it's a big company. Oh, big company. Now I see them on a

505
00:31:10,842 --> 00:31:14,440
regular basis and I say, you know, I. I buy you for

506
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,940
half the price. You bought me? Yeah, we did not work.

507
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,712
That's not very French. Well, that's very French what you did, but it's not

508
00:31:22,736 --> 00:31:26,584
very American, you know, that is, that's an

509
00:31:26,592 --> 00:31:30,312
amazing story because you, it's, it's almost impossible to

510
00:31:30,336 --> 00:31:34,060
express the stress you must have been going through, the anxiety,

511
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,960
the unknown. And here you are with an experimental drug, not

512
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,634
understanding what the ramifications are going to be. Your. Your life's in

513
00:31:41,642 --> 00:31:45,218
disarray and, and to come back and

514
00:31:45,274 --> 00:31:49,042
produce a brand like vgs, which I just can't. I can't wait to tell

515
00:31:49,066 --> 00:31:52,658
the story. And as successful as it now

516
00:31:52,794 --> 00:31:56,402
basically regen the whole thing all over again, that is,

517
00:31:56,506 --> 00:32:00,110
I don't care what industry you're in. That is not easy to do.

518
00:32:00,410 --> 00:32:04,118
No, no, but it's, it's good. It's good first of all

519
00:32:04,164 --> 00:32:07,362
because it shows that as long as you have life, you can do a lot

520
00:32:07,386 --> 00:32:10,746
of things. It's also good

521
00:32:10,818 --> 00:32:14,090
because it allowed me to change the

522
00:32:14,130 --> 00:32:17,962
standards of a winery. Interesting. Shift it

523
00:32:17,986 --> 00:32:21,514
without having to shift it. Yes. And that's where I

524
00:32:21,602 --> 00:32:25,150
decide to come 100% direct to consumer.

525
00:32:25,570 --> 00:32:29,402
Because I love Americans and I hate the

526
00:32:29,426 --> 00:32:33,210
point system. Not because I don't like

527
00:32:33,250 --> 00:32:36,946
points. I don't give a shit, whatever. Yeah. But because every

528
00:32:37,018 --> 00:32:40,786
American has a taste and the pound system kills

529
00:32:40,818 --> 00:32:44,430
the taste. And I tell my customer all the time,

530
00:32:45,530 --> 00:32:49,298
you are celebrating your 30th anniversary. You open

531
00:32:49,354 --> 00:32:52,610
a great bottle of wine. The wine is fantastic because it's a moment of

532
00:32:52,650 --> 00:32:56,450
joy. Three months later, your

533
00:32:56,490 --> 00:32:59,554
wife tell you she divorced, and you have the same bottle of wine. Do you

534
00:32:59,562 --> 00:33:03,226
think it tastes the same? So, you know, I use a.

535
00:33:03,298 --> 00:33:06,906
I use an example like that, but that's much more dramatic. I like it. So

536
00:33:07,058 --> 00:33:10,730
is it really the wine that should be 98, or is it your mood?

537
00:33:10,810 --> 00:33:14,522
Yes. Because you cannot have a good bottle of wine if you are in

538
00:33:14,546 --> 00:33:18,298
a 62 mood. 62 point mood. That's right.

539
00:33:18,354 --> 00:33:21,434
You can only have. Enjoy a good bottle if you are in a good mood.

540
00:33:21,562 --> 00:33:25,370
Because no wine tastes good when you are where you are in bad

541
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:29,050
mood. I can't tell you how many times in the

542
00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:32,772
35 years that somebody came from Europe, they were

543
00:33:32,796 --> 00:33:36,132
sitting at the Parthenon or the Coliseum having a glass of wine. They get the

544
00:33:36,156 --> 00:33:39,588
wine from the waiter, they call me, they can. Can you get this?

545
00:33:39,724 --> 00:33:43,572
I get it for them. Same vintage, same brand. And they call me back and

546
00:33:43,596 --> 00:33:47,236
say, you know, it didn't taste the same. I said, that's because you're home

547
00:33:47,388 --> 00:33:50,260
and your kids are pulling on your shirt tails and you're having this, the fight

548
00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:53,924
with your husband. And, and it. You're not on vacation

549
00:33:53,972 --> 00:33:56,820
in Italy, you know, that's just the way it is. And that's a really good

550
00:33:56,860 --> 00:33:59,556
point. I like your example better. I'm going to use that one. No, but it's.

551
00:33:59,588 --> 00:34:02,240
It's so true. Yeah. And we are species of

552
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,380
the basic, different culture between French and American

553
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,752
is that in America, people are raised

554
00:34:10,896 --> 00:34:14,656
to be successful and make money. We are not raised

555
00:34:14,768 --> 00:34:17,968
to have fun and enjoy. That's true. Okay.

556
00:34:18,144 --> 00:34:21,456
Therefore, that's interesting. They are

557
00:34:21,528 --> 00:34:25,312
tense towards making money. Instead of

558
00:34:25,336 --> 00:34:29,060
being tense enjoying a nice bottle of wine.

559
00:34:30,420 --> 00:34:34,108
Me, I tell my customer, you

560
00:34:34,164 --> 00:34:37,560
work to make money. Me, I work to spend it.

561
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:41,980
And in that, you have a difference of culture. That's true. My

562
00:34:42,020 --> 00:34:45,804
culture is about enjoying life. Yes, you need

563
00:34:45,812 --> 00:34:49,644
to make money, but enjoying it, because every day is a

564
00:34:49,652 --> 00:34:53,308
new day. Every day can bring shit of beauty.

565
00:34:53,484 --> 00:34:57,212
Every bottle of wine deserve to be open and to be cherished and

566
00:34:57,236 --> 00:35:01,032
to be shared. And that word, to

567
00:35:01,056 --> 00:35:04,680
me, the point system killed the pleasure also because it

568
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,024
was too much American. So it comforted the American

569
00:35:08,112 --> 00:35:11,460
into that system of success.

570
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,592
You buy a Bottle because it's $400.50, and you can show that

571
00:35:15,616 --> 00:35:19,432
to your friends. That's it. And naturally, when you have a dinner with friends and

572
00:35:19,456 --> 00:35:22,520
you start by saying it's 100 points from Robert Parker and

573
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,150
$600, nobody has a brain anymore.

574
00:35:26,650 --> 00:35:29,890
You're right, because the taste buds have been killed. You

575
00:35:29,930 --> 00:35:33,682
know, and that's not what one is about.

576
00:35:33,786 --> 00:35:37,490
Wine is about saying, this is wine. It

577
00:35:37,530 --> 00:35:41,234
doesn't need to be talked about. The largest transaction

578
00:35:41,282 --> 00:35:44,546
of my career was a piece of real estate in Southern

579
00:35:44,578 --> 00:35:48,162
California. I won't bore you with the details, but it got to the

580
00:35:48,186 --> 00:35:51,762
point where I told the developer, if you close on

581
00:35:51,786 --> 00:35:55,182
this like you promised, I will give you two bottles of

582
00:35:55,206 --> 00:35:59,006
DRC Latash. And he closed. It wasn't even his money.

583
00:35:59,078 --> 00:36:02,446
It was your. It was Asian money. The next

584
00:36:02,518 --> 00:36:06,270
day, he was at my office. He took those two

585
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:09,534
DRCs, he put them in a cellar. He's got one of those biometric sellers. You

586
00:36:09,542 --> 00:36:13,342
put your thumb on the door and the door opens. And the next day he

587
00:36:13,366 --> 00:36:16,462
had dinner at his house. He took people to the cellar to show them the

588
00:36:16,486 --> 00:36:20,062
cellar. And he was offered like 17 or $18,000 for the two

589
00:36:20,086 --> 00:36:23,868
bottles. And that made him very proud. He goes, I couldn't, you know, I couldn't

590
00:36:23,884 --> 00:36:27,132
sell them. They were a gift. But that's exactly what you're talking about. It was

591
00:36:27,156 --> 00:36:30,920
more about the prestige of the wine than,

592
00:36:31,220 --> 00:36:34,812
you know, the. The pleasure of the wine. Right. And that's an

593
00:36:34,836 --> 00:36:38,172
amazing. You know what, what Counts is I have. You know, when you are a

594
00:36:38,196 --> 00:36:41,788
winery owner, you entertain a lot. And I have people

595
00:36:41,844 --> 00:36:45,612
coming to my house and I say, okay, what. What do we

596
00:36:45,636 --> 00:36:49,162
drink now? And I opened a 1999

597
00:36:49,266 --> 00:36:52,682
Shiraz from Australia. Or I

598
00:36:52,706 --> 00:36:55,670
opened 1948

599
00:36:56,050 --> 00:36:59,530
port. Wow. Yes. And these are

600
00:36:59,570 --> 00:37:03,274
memories for everybody. That's right. Including for me, as a matter of fact. Okay. Because

601
00:37:03,362 --> 00:37:06,630
I have that bottle of wine and

602
00:37:07,570 --> 00:37:11,322
you enjoy it with friends, you share it, and you created

603
00:37:11,386 --> 00:37:15,102
memories for all the friends around the table. And to me,

604
00:37:15,126 --> 00:37:18,606
that's what wine is about. There's nothing else like that though, is there?

605
00:37:18,758 --> 00:37:21,822
No, you don't. Because a piece of art is made to be

606
00:37:21,846 --> 00:37:25,374
admired. Wine is a piece of art, which means to be shared.

607
00:37:25,422 --> 00:37:29,198
Yes. So it's a very different thing. You can drink the damn thing

608
00:37:29,334 --> 00:37:32,702
and you are going to pee the damn thing too. A piece of

609
00:37:32,726 --> 00:37:36,334
art. A piece of art. You are going to keep it and. Look at

610
00:37:36,342 --> 00:37:40,014
it and sell it, but. The wine will be a memory. I still have friends

611
00:37:40,102 --> 00:37:42,940
coming to a house or I go to her place and they talk about this

612
00:37:42,980 --> 00:37:46,700
1947 port. Of course, 1948 port. And. But

613
00:37:46,740 --> 00:37:49,644
that's the beauty of wine. That's the beautiful. And I've never been able to

614
00:37:49,652 --> 00:37:53,292
articulate, you know, it's a grape.

615
00:37:53,356 --> 00:37:57,084
And they. And I was having this conversation today at Inglenook.

616
00:37:57,212 --> 00:38:00,604
You know, we can discuss the tap roots and the micronutrient

617
00:38:00,652 --> 00:38:04,316
exchange and all that, but it doesn't. That explains how it happens. It doesn't

618
00:38:04,348 --> 00:38:07,814
explain why wine does what you're just saying.

619
00:38:07,932 --> 00:38:11,538
Why does it create these memories? Why is it a conversation 20

620
00:38:11,594 --> 00:38:15,266
years later? I opened this 48 port with Jean

621
00:38:15,298 --> 00:38:18,994
Noel and it was unbelievable. Why does that happen? Looking for an

622
00:38:19,002 --> 00:38:22,510
answer. It happens because you have people like me today

623
00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:26,578
who are making wine with

624
00:38:26,714 --> 00:38:30,274
passion. And we're not making wine for today.

625
00:38:30,362 --> 00:38:33,790
I'm making wine for the person who is going to.

626
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,140
To drink it in five, 10, 20 years.

627
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,272
And I tell you, my biggest pride is I can show you email that

628
00:38:42,296 --> 00:38:45,952
I receive every day from pictures I receive from customers saying,

629
00:38:46,056 --> 00:38:49,328
I am drinking the VGS Cabernet 1999.

630
00:38:49,464 --> 00:38:53,232
Best 99 I ever had. Is that rewarding or the other day?

631
00:38:53,256 --> 00:38:56,880
Oh, it's fantastic. The other day, the day after Christmas, I received that email

632
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,780
from a very good customer who lost his seller during the fire,

633
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:05,780
Palissa down there. And he said, you know, my

634
00:39:05,820 --> 00:39:09,140
wine group, 10 people, we have been drinking wine

635
00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:12,720
for 800 years. If we put the age together.

636
00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:17,380
And we love wine, we travel for wine at

637
00:39:17,420 --> 00:39:21,140
Christmas, everybody bought a bottle. All expensive, all very

638
00:39:21,180 --> 00:39:24,852
good. Yet he said, you would be interested to

639
00:39:24,876 --> 00:39:28,340
know that the wine that people have talked the most at

640
00:39:28,380 --> 00:39:32,122
night was the VGS Cabernet. Congratulations. That's beautiful.

641
00:39:32,186 --> 00:39:35,802
But that's why I make wine, is because I

642
00:39:35,826 --> 00:39:39,322
want my customer. And I think they know that my

643
00:39:39,346 --> 00:39:42,522
customer know that I will never make a bottle of wine that I will not

644
00:39:42,546 --> 00:39:46,234
drink myself. Okay? It has to be good. Otherwise it goes to

645
00:39:46,242 --> 00:39:49,802
the sink. So that's why you

646
00:39:49,826 --> 00:39:53,430
have these wines that are memorable. It's because

647
00:39:54,130 --> 00:39:57,914
they did something for you at the moment you drink it.

648
00:39:58,002 --> 00:40:01,222
I suppose it's tied to the memory. You can't forget it.

649
00:40:01,326 --> 00:40:04,582
But it also has to have memory

650
00:40:04,646 --> 00:40:08,070
triggering character about it, which means it has to be made

651
00:40:08,110 --> 00:40:11,894
honestly. It has to represent a sense of place and time.

652
00:40:11,982 --> 00:40:15,814
It can't be a mundane. You know, let's just be honest about some of

653
00:40:15,822 --> 00:40:19,542
the wines that come out of Napa these days. It's just a monolith, you

654
00:40:19,566 --> 00:40:23,318
know, fruit bomb with some acid on the end. And

655
00:40:23,374 --> 00:40:26,578
it doesn't express anything except red wine.

656
00:40:26,774 --> 00:40:30,074
And I think that has a lot to do with the difference between the VGS

657
00:40:30,122 --> 00:40:33,898
wine and what might come out of Napa. So we're,

658
00:40:33,914 --> 00:40:36,842
like, almost out of time. So I want to go through this because you've been

659
00:40:36,866 --> 00:40:40,426
kind enough to make this wonderful plate of paired hors

660
00:40:40,458 --> 00:40:44,154
d'oeuvres with some wines. But I have two Chardonnays in front of me. One of

661
00:40:44,162 --> 00:40:47,690
them is the VGS, and one of them is the 4mo. So what is the

662
00:40:47,730 --> 00:40:51,482
4mo brand? They are made very differently. It's because I

663
00:40:51,506 --> 00:40:55,094
wanted to make a very different Chardonnay than the vgs. I

664
00:40:55,102 --> 00:40:58,170
wanted to make a more French,

665
00:40:58,510 --> 00:41:02,278
leaner style. I had to change

666
00:41:02,334 --> 00:41:05,702
the vineyard because on Mount Vidor, I cannot produce that. The wines are

667
00:41:05,726 --> 00:41:09,010
richer. And then instead of being

668
00:41:09,390 --> 00:41:13,078
parclet barrel fermented, this wine is made

669
00:41:13,214 --> 00:41:16,566
40% in concrete egg.

670
00:41:16,758 --> 00:41:20,598
Really? Wow. So it's a concrete tank that has a shape of an egg. Yeah,

671
00:41:20,614 --> 00:41:24,374
that's right. But it produces a different style. 30% is in stainless

672
00:41:24,422 --> 00:41:28,060
steel barrels of 80, 60 gallons.

673
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,328
And 30% is in new French oak. Yeah, the oak

674
00:41:32,344 --> 00:41:36,040
is very subdued. So the egg, the characteristic of the

675
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,860
egg is that because of the shape of the egg,

676
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,560
the wine breathe because it's concrete, but the shape of the

677
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,840
egg makes that the leaves are staying in

678
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,712
suspension, and therefore it cleared that lushless

679
00:41:50,776 --> 00:41:54,610
sky there. That normally comes from oak, but it

680
00:41:54,650 --> 00:41:58,178
has no oak in it. No vanilla, then. No vanilla,

681
00:41:58,274 --> 00:42:01,826
then you have A stainless steel barrel that

682
00:42:01,898 --> 00:42:05,618
keep the wine very grapefruit. And then you have the

683
00:42:05,674 --> 00:42:08,990
French oak that gives the

684
00:42:09,290 --> 00:42:13,122
charm and the complexity. And this is the way I

685
00:42:13,146 --> 00:42:16,626
make the Fomo. So it's a wine that is only 30% barrel

686
00:42:16,658 --> 00:42:20,492
fermented. And, you know, you almost. The

687
00:42:20,516 --> 00:42:24,364
nose almost expresses every one of those methods. It's

688
00:42:24,412 --> 00:42:28,236
pretty interesting. Beautiful, yes. And it's. So it's a little

689
00:42:28,308 --> 00:42:32,108
leaner. It doesn't jump to you like that, but

690
00:42:32,164 --> 00:42:35,724
when you take it in your mouth, it's still a very full and rich wine.

691
00:42:35,772 --> 00:42:39,100
A little bit. It's still leaner, and it is more French. You know,

692
00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:42,988
Burgundy, like, that's what it's not. But it's not Burgundy. We know this, right?

693
00:42:43,044 --> 00:42:46,782
It's got more opulence to it, but it's gorgeous structure to

694
00:42:46,806 --> 00:42:50,302
it. And the opulence is coming because we are in California. You're in California. We

695
00:42:50,326 --> 00:42:53,022
are warmer. We cannot do any of that. So I'm not trying to do a

696
00:42:53,046 --> 00:42:56,286
French wine. I am trying to do the best

697
00:42:56,358 --> 00:42:59,182
expression I can of a leaner

698
00:42:59,246 --> 00:43:03,086
Chardonnay that goes with also a very different type of food. It's

699
00:43:03,118 --> 00:43:06,894
gorgeous as a VGS that you. Have now, this is

700
00:43:06,902 --> 00:43:10,558
your main brand. Main brand, it is coming

701
00:43:10,614 --> 00:43:14,376
from Mount Zeder. It is barrel fermented

702
00:43:14,408 --> 00:43:17,340
and fermented in stainless steel barrels.

703
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,256
So it's basically today 75%

704
00:43:21,408 --> 00:43:25,096
French barrel and 25% stainless steel

705
00:43:25,128 --> 00:43:28,616
barrel. That's interesting. I've never, never discussed a

706
00:43:28,688 --> 00:43:32,440
66 gallon or 60 gallon stainless steel barrel, so.

707
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,376
Because before, people would do that in tanks. Yeah, the 1500 gallon

708
00:43:36,408 --> 00:43:39,976
thing. Yeah. But it doesn't give you what. What a smaller

709
00:43:40,008 --> 00:43:43,590
container gives, because in a smaller container, you have a lees.

710
00:43:44,170 --> 00:43:47,710
So you have a smaller amount of lees for

711
00:43:48,170 --> 00:43:51,830
you have a smaller amount of wine. Therefore,

712
00:43:52,970 --> 00:43:56,642
it affects the richness, the lusciousness of a

713
00:43:56,666 --> 00:44:00,338
mouth. So you can see these two wines are completely different. Totally

714
00:44:00,354 --> 00:44:03,442
different. Were kind enough to do this for me, and I really appreciate it, but

715
00:44:03,466 --> 00:44:07,106
I want to taste this with this Jerusalem artichoke velote with

716
00:44:07,178 --> 00:44:11,002
poached Maine lobster in Sunchoke crisps. This

717
00:44:11,026 --> 00:44:14,618
is a Jean Noel special. No, the food

718
00:44:14,674 --> 00:44:18,218
here is coming from a restaurant in Napa, which is a friend of

719
00:44:18,274 --> 00:44:22,058
mine called Latok. And

720
00:44:22,114 --> 00:44:25,690
all our food is coming from Latok. And we

721
00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:29,498
change the food basically every month so people can come.

722
00:44:29,554 --> 00:44:32,830
Ken Frank. Ken Frank. He's been on the show. Oh, yeah.

723
00:44:34,930 --> 00:44:38,508
So we change the food and we every month. And we change

724
00:44:38,564 --> 00:44:42,060
also the food every time we change the Wine that we are tasting.

725
00:44:42,220 --> 00:44:45,980
When people come to taste here at Vigil Chateau Botel, they basically,

726
00:44:46,060 --> 00:44:49,772
we have four wines that are the regimen, and

727
00:44:49,796 --> 00:44:53,548
then we welcome them with a. And

728
00:44:53,604 --> 00:44:57,132
a little piece of salmon. And we finish

729
00:44:57,196 --> 00:45:00,780
always by a wine that might be a syrah, might be

730
00:45:00,820 --> 00:45:04,474
a ganacheiras, quinoise, might be the fomo. It

731
00:45:04,482 --> 00:45:07,498
depends of the what? During the

732
00:45:07,554 --> 00:45:10,350
conversation, we have seen the customer

733
00:45:10,930 --> 00:45:14,682
orientation. So it might not be the same wine for everybody around the table,

734
00:45:14,746 --> 00:45:18,442
but it's gorgeous. And how is latok doing? I know

735
00:45:18,466 --> 00:45:22,026
that during. I sat with them during COVID so it was a whole

736
00:45:22,058 --> 00:45:25,882
different experience. But has he rebounded from all this? Yeah,

737
00:45:25,946 --> 00:45:28,750
Latoque, you know, is one of the top restaurants,

738
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:32,120
is definitely French cuisine.

739
00:45:36,140 --> 00:45:39,348
Ken and I, we, I guess, will share the perfection without

740
00:45:39,404 --> 00:45:43,124
pretension film. So the food is beautiful

741
00:45:43,172 --> 00:45:46,452
and the. Attitude is, well, he's part of

742
00:45:46,476 --> 00:45:49,764
the, you know, the renaissance of American

743
00:45:49,852 --> 00:45:53,332
cuisine Los Angeles. And, you know, he has a very

744
00:45:53,516 --> 00:45:57,220
firm opinion and passion about it, which was really refreshing to hear

745
00:45:57,260 --> 00:46:00,352
when I spoke with him. So we have to go back there. So we have

746
00:46:00,376 --> 00:46:04,192
this, the VGS Zinn. So this is the, you know,

747
00:46:04,296 --> 00:46:08,032
the post Chateau Potel Zinn. And you

748
00:46:08,056 --> 00:46:11,456
paired it with the pork relay of it. I mean, with the apple

749
00:46:11,488 --> 00:46:15,280
compote and garlic aioli and on sourdough. So how is this

750
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,024
zin different than the original Chateau Patel? It's first of

751
00:46:19,032 --> 00:46:22,624
all, zinfandel. Zinfandel

752
00:46:22,672 --> 00:46:25,968
cruster weights around four

753
00:46:26,024 --> 00:46:29,860
pounds, really a cabernet cluster.

754
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,060
Weight maximum a pound,

755
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,160
really four times. Because of the number of berries or because the size. Because

756
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,840
it's a very big cluster with very big

757
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,712
berries that are tied together. And on the

758
00:46:45,736 --> 00:46:48,784
top of that is what we call a shoulder, which is another

759
00:46:48,872 --> 00:46:52,442
shoulder growing grapes. So because the

760
00:46:52,466 --> 00:46:56,122
cluster is so big, Zinfandel had a

761
00:46:56,146 --> 00:46:59,850
tendency to ripen unevenly. So one third

762
00:46:59,890 --> 00:47:03,070
is ripe, one third is underripe, one third is overripe.

763
00:47:04,450 --> 00:47:08,106
So basically, traditionally, winemakers

764
00:47:08,138 --> 00:47:11,402
that go versinfandel a little overripe to

765
00:47:11,426 --> 00:47:14,954
compensate for the underripe. I don't do

766
00:47:14,962 --> 00:47:18,752
that. We harvest our zinfandelin three different

767
00:47:18,856 --> 00:47:22,656
times. Basically between the first harvest

768
00:47:22,688 --> 00:47:26,144
of zin and the third, we have three weeks,

769
00:47:26,232 --> 00:47:29,872
sometimes four weeks. Wow, that's an interesting thought. The

770
00:47:29,896 --> 00:47:33,184
idea is that I want to harvest only what is

771
00:47:33,352 --> 00:47:36,560
ready to be harvested so that I do not have

772
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,176
underripe and I do not have reasoning, because

773
00:47:40,248 --> 00:47:43,890
reasoning creates a lot of alcohol. And then

774
00:47:43,930 --> 00:47:47,682
that sweeter character, jammy character, more like if

775
00:47:47,706 --> 00:47:51,458
you have Eaten jam, which is. I'm not making

776
00:47:51,514 --> 00:47:55,298
jam, I'm making wine. So very logical.

777
00:47:55,394 --> 00:47:59,110
And I love to serve my zine with fish

778
00:47:59,850 --> 00:48:03,602
because I want to show to people that a beautiful

779
00:48:03,666 --> 00:48:06,946
wine is a beautiful wine. It's not a heavy

780
00:48:06,978 --> 00:48:10,754
zine. People call that a Bordeaux, like type of zine,

781
00:48:10,802 --> 00:48:14,594
but it's a Zinfandel. So it's a Bordeaux, but it's a very elegant

782
00:48:14,642 --> 00:48:18,098
sign. I wanted to promote Zinfandel from a second class

783
00:48:18,154 --> 00:48:21,550
citizen to a first class citizen. Well, this

784
00:48:22,410 --> 00:48:25,762
structure is like no other. And so much of

785
00:48:25,786 --> 00:48:29,506
California Zinfandel, particularly from the Shenandoah Valley and other parts, the Sierra

786
00:48:29,538 --> 00:48:32,898
Nevadas are just. They're good

787
00:48:32,954 --> 00:48:36,502
and they express Zinfandel character. But

788
00:48:36,526 --> 00:48:39,814
they're huge. Yeah, this has very elegant

789
00:48:39,862 --> 00:48:43,590
structure for Zinfandel. I don't like huge in anything.

790
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:46,918
Yeah. I think when you are huge, you are

791
00:48:46,974 --> 00:48:50,598
missing the finesse. And

792
00:48:50,734 --> 00:48:54,486
for me, life is about finesse. It's about

793
00:48:54,638 --> 00:48:57,990
all the things that if it is huge would be

794
00:48:58,030 --> 00:49:01,570
hidden. Right. Because. Good point. But you

795
00:49:01,610 --> 00:49:05,282
have, you know, the volatile character that you need to

796
00:49:05,306 --> 00:49:08,790
want. You want to see and you don't see when the wine is huge.

797
00:49:09,370 --> 00:49:13,218
That's why I think Napa Valley Cabernet has really very little

798
00:49:13,274 --> 00:49:16,546
interest is because the wines are made in a big

799
00:49:16,618 --> 00:49:20,258
way. No, they should be made

800
00:49:20,314 --> 00:49:24,082
to respect the terroir and to enhance the

801
00:49:24,106 --> 00:49:27,346
grapes, not to kill them by over

802
00:49:27,418 --> 00:49:31,202
maturity or. And it's much made because people want to have

803
00:49:31,226 --> 00:49:34,866
a 98 points. Me, I don't give a about 98.

804
00:49:34,938 --> 00:49:38,642
My wine is very good. And that's the only rating we have. We don't have

805
00:49:38,666 --> 00:49:42,482
any other ratings and vgs. So that's fine. I think we've established that you

806
00:49:42,506 --> 00:49:46,002
have very good shit here. And you know, my customers are the.

807
00:49:46,106 --> 00:49:49,858
We sell only to private people. Yes. So if they come back

808
00:49:49,914 --> 00:49:53,672
every year, there's a reason it must be very good shit. I have people that

809
00:49:53,746 --> 00:49:57,596
have been customer. I was on the phone with this morning with one that is

810
00:49:57,748 --> 00:50:01,468
1987. Okay. We have club members

811
00:50:01,524 --> 00:50:05,164
here for 22 years. Wow, that's.

812
00:50:05,212 --> 00:50:08,716
That's extraordinary. So there must be something that's

813
00:50:08,748 --> 00:50:12,332
extraordinary quality of the wines, you know. So now we have the

814
00:50:12,356 --> 00:50:15,880
Chateau Patel 2. Yeah. Which is.

815
00:50:16,260 --> 00:50:20,076
You're serving with the herb crusted lamb loin on polenta and

816
00:50:20,148 --> 00:50:23,530
romesco sauce. Is this a blend?

817
00:50:24,190 --> 00:50:27,846
Potel II is a wine I

818
00:50:27,918 --> 00:50:31,750
love to make and our customer love it because it's also the cheapest or

819
00:50:31,790 --> 00:50:35,558
least expensive overall wine. So I think it's the same price as zine, but it's

820
00:50:35,574 --> 00:50:38,534
a Cabernet base and it's

821
00:50:38,582 --> 00:50:42,010
Cabernet. It's pretty extractive. It has Zinfandel.

822
00:50:42,350 --> 00:50:46,182
It has some Syrah. Whoa, you crazy? Some petit Syrah. And

823
00:50:46,206 --> 00:50:48,990
it has a little bit of Malbec. Vous a foul we.

824
00:50:51,130 --> 00:50:54,674
And what I'm shooting with in the Potel

825
00:50:54,722 --> 00:50:57,910
2 is an extremely beautiful,

826
00:50:58,730 --> 00:51:02,082
volatile, childish, joyful

827
00:51:02,146 --> 00:51:05,858
character coming out of a wine. It's seamless. Really? Yeah, it's

828
00:51:05,874 --> 00:51:09,554
seamless. I want a wine that you bring tonight to friends because.

829
00:51:09,642 --> 00:51:13,122
And it will go with whatever food they serve, barbecue, pizza, or

830
00:51:13,146 --> 00:51:16,840
fish. But I want to also whine that, you know,

831
00:51:17,620 --> 00:51:21,260
it's a little bit like you arrive from work to

832
00:51:21,300 --> 00:51:25,052
home and the puppy is running to you, waving

833
00:51:25,116 --> 00:51:28,796
his tail. And, you know, childish, joyful. That's the nose.

834
00:51:28,908 --> 00:51:32,172
But then you sit down with a glass of wine, and the puppy come to

835
00:51:32,196 --> 00:51:35,820
put his head on your lap, and he met his presence

836
00:51:35,900 --> 00:51:39,452
felt. Yes. And I want the wine, when it is in your mouth to make

837
00:51:39,476 --> 00:51:42,594
it present felt. It does do that. It's

838
00:51:42,642 --> 00:51:46,070
Cabernet. So the blend change every year. Naturally.

839
00:51:48,010 --> 00:51:51,602
It is very cuddly wine. It's very soft. It sits on the

840
00:51:51,626 --> 00:51:55,154
palate nicely. It doesn't. It's not rushing you through the

841
00:51:55,162 --> 00:51:58,962
wine. No, because the Syrah and the Zinfandel make

842
00:51:58,986 --> 00:52:01,970
the wine also lively and aromatic. And the

843
00:52:02,010 --> 00:52:05,842
Syrah. So it's better the color too. You know, it doesn't have

844
00:52:05,866 --> 00:52:09,450
a similar tannin structure than a 100% cabernet.

845
00:52:10,590 --> 00:52:14,230
So this is. This is one of our favorite of club

846
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:18,022
members, because, as I say, you can bring that to anywhere, and

847
00:52:18,046 --> 00:52:20,570
it's always welcome. Beautiful.

848
00:52:21,870 --> 00:52:25,718
I'm supposed to have dinner later, but that's okay.

849
00:52:25,814 --> 00:52:29,542
This has appetizers. Oh, my God. It just.

850
00:52:29,646 --> 00:52:32,854
The AM is good. We stay in France too, so I'm so happy. Reminded me

851
00:52:32,862 --> 00:52:35,408
of Ken Frank. Because we have to go back. We haven't been for a while.

852
00:52:35,494 --> 00:52:38,972
When he was on the show, we discussed mostly the 80s

853
00:52:39,036 --> 00:52:42,252
and the renaissance of food in LA

854
00:52:42,356 --> 00:52:46,204
particularly, and he really wanted to talk about wine. So I promised

855
00:52:46,252 --> 00:52:49,884
him I'd come back and we'd discuss wine. Because Ken is one of a

856
00:52:49,892 --> 00:52:53,404
chef. That knows wine, that knows wine. A lot of chef don't know wine.

857
00:52:53,452 --> 00:52:56,572
Yeah. That's why they hire what they call wine director. Yes.

858
00:52:56,716 --> 00:53:00,492
When Ken knows exactly his wine, he knows exactly. As

859
00:53:00,516 --> 00:53:03,080
a matter of fact, his wine and food pairing

860
00:53:04,060 --> 00:53:07,668
is one of the best that I know in the country. It's

861
00:53:07,684 --> 00:53:11,140
fantastic. And for that, La Talk is a great

862
00:53:11,180 --> 00:53:14,600
experience. So this is our Cabernet vgs.

863
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:18,596
And our Cabernet is always a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon,

864
00:53:18,708 --> 00:53:22,340
Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot, and Malbe.

865
00:53:22,420 --> 00:53:26,000
There is no Merlot in two or Cabernets. The reason being

866
00:53:26,620 --> 00:53:30,110
that I don't find Merlot

867
00:53:30,190 --> 00:53:33,918
growing particularly well on Mount Vidur because

868
00:53:33,974 --> 00:53:37,822
our vineyards are 2,400ft elevation. And

869
00:53:37,846 --> 00:53:41,278
I don't find Merlot growing perfectly well as I find

870
00:53:41,334 --> 00:53:43,330
Petit Verdot and Malbec.

871
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:47,726
Explosing of flavors. Petit Verdot,

872
00:53:47,758 --> 00:53:51,326
that can be a grape that is green and very tannic for us

873
00:53:51,398 --> 00:53:55,232
because of our exposure. And. And we are cooler, so there

874
00:53:55,256 --> 00:53:59,072
is a longer time of maturing on the vines, is a

875
00:53:59,096 --> 00:54:02,928
grape that turned more floral with tannins that are very

876
00:54:02,984 --> 00:54:06,672
melted. It would. It was seeing that Merlot on that side of the

877
00:54:06,696 --> 00:54:10,320
valley would be earlier ripening, probably

878
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,256
more juice than acid, even though it's not an acidic

879
00:54:14,288 --> 00:54:17,648
grape. That is not really an appropriate place for

880
00:54:17,704 --> 00:54:21,120
Merlot. Typically, we tried, and I was not happy, so

881
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,542
we. We did not continue with Merlot. So it's four of the

882
00:54:24,566 --> 00:54:28,174
five Bordeaux varietals. Yeah. It's Chateau Potel and

883
00:54:28,182 --> 00:54:31,614
Bordeaux. Is it? What. What varietals were they growing

884
00:54:31,662 --> 00:54:35,502
there? The five. The five, you know. Yeah. This is

885
00:54:35,526 --> 00:54:39,086
gorgeous. And his pairing is amazing. This mushroom salad

886
00:54:39,118 --> 00:54:42,622
is really something. Yes. So you are going to have a next one, which is

887
00:54:42,646 --> 00:54:46,366
a formal red, very different. It's

888
00:54:46,398 --> 00:54:49,806
made with three grapes, only with a lot of Petit

889
00:54:49,838 --> 00:54:53,006
Verdot. So this is the Cabernet

890
00:54:53,038 --> 00:54:56,606
Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, and

891
00:54:56,758 --> 00:54:59,410
up to 28% of petit verdot.

892
00:55:00,230 --> 00:55:03,970
Wow. And you are going to see it. Absolutely

893
00:55:04,310 --> 00:55:08,142
fabulous. Very different. Naturally, we have to make a different wine than

894
00:55:08,166 --> 00:55:11,662
the bgs Cabernet and

895
00:55:11,766 --> 00:55:15,524
gorgeous nose coming from. Oh, it's got the noses. It's not Petit

896
00:55:15,572 --> 00:55:19,348
Verdot, though, because that's not usually. No, but Petit Verdot plays there because

897
00:55:19,404 --> 00:55:22,948
Petit Verdot for us is very floral. Take an example,

898
00:55:23,044 --> 00:55:26,708
Paul, in 2023. I finished

899
00:55:26,724 --> 00:55:29,480
my harvest on Mont Vido on November 17th.

900
00:55:30,220 --> 00:55:34,052
November 17th. Four weeks after everybody in

901
00:55:34,076 --> 00:55:36,760
Napa Valley. Okay. I took a gamble

902
00:55:38,780 --> 00:55:42,366
and it paid. But that's where you.

903
00:55:42,518 --> 00:55:45,966
That's what an owner winemaker does. It takes gamble. A winemaker

904
00:55:45,998 --> 00:55:49,710
employee maybe cannot take the gamble. But, you know, this

905
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:53,342
wine is also extremely full dense, but

906
00:55:53,446 --> 00:55:57,118
never heavy. It's not heavy, but it's got layers.

907
00:55:57,214 --> 00:56:00,574
It has layers, which is the beauty of a Wine, it's like you and me

908
00:56:00,662 --> 00:56:04,238
and everybody. We have a personality and we may have one

909
00:56:04,294 --> 00:56:08,110
tray of character, but we have a lot of layers that make us more

910
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:11,614
complex individuals. And that's what you want to find in the wine.

911
00:56:11,742 --> 00:56:15,470
It's one thing, but a lot of different things. At the time

912
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:19,182
you smell and the time you put in your mouth, it's a

913
00:56:19,206 --> 00:56:22,638
symphony. And the symphony, when you go to the symphony,

914
00:56:22,814 --> 00:56:26,334
you need time to respect the flute and the cello before the

915
00:56:26,422 --> 00:56:28,250
big drums comes.

916
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:34,220
So that's what I want to have in the wine. And by the way, this

917
00:56:34,260 --> 00:56:37,900
wine, the FOMO red, was a wine that was the most

918
00:56:37,940 --> 00:56:41,772
expensive wine sold at the Napa Valley Barrel Auction three years in a

919
00:56:41,796 --> 00:56:45,452
row. Now I'm going to tell my wife that she needs to

920
00:56:45,476 --> 00:56:46,800
respect my layers.

921
00:56:49,460 --> 00:56:53,244
When she gets mad at me for something, though, she's a great girl, but

922
00:56:53,332 --> 00:56:56,172
this is quite stupendous. What vintage is this particular bottle?

923
00:56:56,236 --> 00:56:59,900
2019. Excuse me. Phenomenal.

924
00:56:59,980 --> 00:57:03,070
That's what we serve you for. It's still good.

925
00:57:03,450 --> 00:57:06,978
2018, the concentration. Now, you know, it's

926
00:57:06,994 --> 00:57:10,818
interesting because we talk about this Napa style

927
00:57:10,834 --> 00:57:14,530
that's evolved, that people pour. And I happily opened two

928
00:57:14,570 --> 00:57:18,290
bottles the other night because I had leftover inventory, and they

929
00:57:18,330 --> 00:57:22,050
express nothing. They're well made, good balance,

930
00:57:22,130 --> 00:57:25,618
good structure, but they express nothing. And these are

931
00:57:25,674 --> 00:57:28,922
major brands coming out of here. And here you have a wine like this that

932
00:57:28,946 --> 00:57:32,474
when you taste it, you realize you. You've left and gone

933
00:57:32,522 --> 00:57:36,150
somewhere else. Because to me,

934
00:57:37,090 --> 00:57:40,842
the beauty of the wine is not the attack in the

935
00:57:40,866 --> 00:57:44,602
mouth, it is the aftertaste. You know,

936
00:57:44,626 --> 00:57:48,202
it's like you have a dinner with friends or people that you. Some people that

937
00:57:48,226 --> 00:57:51,818
you don't know, and you have this person that you

938
00:57:51,874 --> 00:57:55,666
say, oh, he look fantastic. I want to see him again.

939
00:57:55,818 --> 00:57:59,602
And the second time you see him again. Oh, yeah. And the third time you

940
00:57:59,626 --> 00:58:03,250
say, no, not boring, boring.

941
00:58:03,330 --> 00:58:06,258
Okay, that's Moscow's California for Napa.

942
00:58:06,274 --> 00:58:09,810
Valencabarne. Me, I want to be the guy that you

943
00:58:09,850 --> 00:58:12,946
say, I need a little more time. I would like to see him a second

944
00:58:13,018 --> 00:58:16,482
time, but I know there is something there. And then you

945
00:58:16,506 --> 00:58:20,172
discover and you grow. And that to me,

946
00:58:20,196 --> 00:58:24,044
what wine is about is growing. Are we changing this? You know, we're going

947
00:58:24,052 --> 00:58:27,804
to wrap this up because we're already an hour, but is that changing? Do you

948
00:58:27,812 --> 00:58:31,596
think that there's a movement away from this Napa

949
00:58:31,628 --> 00:58:35,020
style into expressing Rutherford, into

950
00:58:35,060 --> 00:58:38,892
expressing Mount Veeder, into expressing Oakville, into expressing, you

951
00:58:38,916 --> 00:58:42,524
know, Calistoga? Is that movement happening?

952
00:58:42,652 --> 00:58:46,492
Hello. You have a writer here in Napa valley called Karin McNeil who made an

953
00:58:46,516 --> 00:58:50,342
article the other day saying that she tasted 18 wines

954
00:58:50,406 --> 00:58:54,134
from one of the top consultants in Napa Valley, and she couldn't make any difference

955
00:58:54,262 --> 00:58:57,670
of the 18 wines. Really? And I'm so glad she

956
00:58:57,710 --> 00:59:01,414
finally somebody said it, because me, I can study. Nobody give a shit.

957
00:59:01,542 --> 00:59:05,222
But so it's important that we have somebody official that says it. We

958
00:59:05,246 --> 00:59:09,014
need a lot of people to say the same thing. Because realistically,

959
00:59:09,062 --> 00:59:12,886
what is Napa Mali today? A lot of rich people who don't know anything

960
00:59:12,918 --> 00:59:16,734
about wine. They put $50 million in the ground, and they hire

961
00:59:16,782 --> 00:59:20,462
a top guy to say, give me a 98 so that I have the

962
00:59:20,486 --> 00:59:24,334
return of investment. So they make the wine to be a 98. Because most of

963
00:59:24,342 --> 00:59:27,774
the press doesn't know any way what they taste except something big. And they are

964
00:59:27,782 --> 00:59:31,502
not touch by layers. Right. Because they taste that in

965
00:59:31,526 --> 00:59:35,374
two seconds and then they move to something else. Yeah, they've got 100 wines

966
00:59:35,422 --> 00:59:39,086
in front of them. Absolutely. So we are not in the same business. Now,

967
00:59:39,158 --> 00:59:42,862
me, I sell to customers who love wine, who discover wine.

968
00:59:42,926 --> 00:59:46,622
Some are young, some are older, but they have a passion. They

969
00:59:46,646 --> 00:59:50,462
have a passion for wine, and they have a passion for food, and they

970
00:59:50,486 --> 00:59:54,142
travel. Their mind is open, and they discover new things. You

971
00:59:54,166 --> 00:59:58,014
know, think I make a Syrah, fantastic Syrah. But then I

972
00:59:58,022 --> 01:00:01,758
have customer would travel and say, you know, Chanel, we went to Chateauneuve du

973
01:00:01,774 --> 01:00:05,422
Pape. The wines, the Syrah are different. Okay? So I

974
01:00:05,446 --> 01:00:08,904
make now a gsc, a Grenache Syrah,

975
01:00:08,952 --> 01:00:12,536
Cunoise, so the same GS. That's interesting.

976
01:00:12,728 --> 01:00:15,720
And because, first of all, I love to make one. And also because my

977
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,400
customer, they make me grow, and I make them

978
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,144
grow. Okay? And that's why I decided to

979
01:00:23,152 --> 01:00:26,952
sell only to private people, because I got every word of

980
01:00:26,976 --> 01:00:30,792
their text message. That's brilliant. And

981
01:00:30,816 --> 01:00:34,632
we grow together. I mean, in today's world, the fact that you avoid

982
01:00:34,696 --> 01:00:38,136
distributors and Youngs and Southern and RNDC and Wine

983
01:00:38,168 --> 01:00:41,812
Warehouse, all the rest of them, and the consolidation and the

984
01:00:41,836 --> 01:00:45,684
book, you'll be in a book that thick, unless you take the kid to Hawaii,

985
01:00:45,732 --> 01:00:49,220
you don't get any presents. I mean, you've done the right thing.

986
01:00:49,340 --> 01:00:52,612
And it's really great and fascinating to

987
01:00:52,636 --> 01:00:56,372
hear the change from when

988
01:00:56,396 --> 01:00:59,780
we first met in 1998 and we did business together to

989
01:00:59,820 --> 01:01:03,540
today in your passion and your health, which

990
01:01:03,580 --> 01:01:07,246
is the most important. It's really great to be here. You know,

991
01:01:07,318 --> 01:01:10,810
I love my thing. We have a Fanta, I have A fantastic team.

992
01:01:11,110 --> 01:01:14,330
Matthew has been with me 23 years. Tony, 22,

993
01:01:14,710 --> 01:01:18,430
Eric that I hired as a winemaker to work with

994
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:22,190
me and Kale. When I restarted the business, I needed younger people

995
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:25,438
so that I can train because it takes a long time to train a winemaker.

996
01:01:25,534 --> 01:01:28,734
And we have fun. And we have fun because we make wine.

997
01:01:28,862 --> 01:01:32,674
Everybody here knows that they have to be perfection. But nobody

998
01:01:32,722 --> 01:01:36,274
takes pay is, you know, wave their nose

999
01:01:36,322 --> 01:01:39,922
up. Arrogance is not part of our team. You

1000
01:01:39,946 --> 01:01:42,590
know, my father passed away two years ago

1001
01:01:43,130 --> 01:01:46,962
and I didn't when I took over the

1002
01:01:46,986 --> 01:01:50,802
company. He'll tell you I bought it for a dollar. And it's funny. I'll just

1003
01:01:50,826 --> 01:01:54,482
tell you the quick story. We. When I started working with him, I worked with

1004
01:01:54,506 --> 01:01:58,152
him all my life because I was the youngest, the youngest child.

1005
01:01:58,256 --> 01:02:01,960
And I was more like him. I was spirited,

1006
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:05,784
entrepreneurial. And so he took me to his meetings, et cetera.

1007
01:02:05,912 --> 01:02:09,304
And one day, after I worked with him for about 90 days,

1008
01:02:09,472 --> 01:02:13,320
I packed the wine, I did the credit card charges, I tasted with him.

1009
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,208
We went to a Bordeaux tasting in la and we got separated in different

1010
01:02:17,264 --> 01:02:20,552
rooms and we tasted 25 Bordeaux. I don't, I don't remember the

1011
01:02:20,576 --> 01:02:23,938
supplier. And when we got done, we had a three point

1012
01:02:23,994 --> 01:02:27,842
scale. See, it was different than what, what we do today. Our three point

1013
01:02:27,866 --> 01:02:30,754
scale was if we gave it a one, we couldn't use it because it was

1014
01:02:30,762 --> 01:02:34,562
overpriced for what we've tasted. Two was good price,

1015
01:02:34,666 --> 01:02:38,322
good wine at representation. And three was if the price was a

1016
01:02:38,346 --> 01:02:41,842
little lower, you know, it would make more sense. And we

1017
01:02:41,866 --> 01:02:45,230
were exactly the same on everything but two of them.

1018
01:02:45,610 --> 01:02:48,430
Because I think you're ready to, to do this.

1019
01:02:48,980 --> 01:02:52,732
And for me, it was business, maybe the

1020
01:02:52,756 --> 01:02:56,364
first 10 or 15 years. How much wine can I sell? Let's make sure, of

1021
01:02:56,372 --> 01:02:59,356
course, good product wines like Chateau Potel,

1022
01:02:59,388 --> 01:03:03,068
Zinfandel. But then all of a sudden, the

1023
01:03:03,124 --> 01:03:06,828
passion and the fascination of what good

1024
01:03:06,884 --> 01:03:10,652
glass of wine, an honest glass of wine means. And so that's what I've been

1025
01:03:10,676 --> 01:03:14,492
chasing. And I thank him every day for pulling me

1026
01:03:14,516 --> 01:03:17,630
into this industry, as difficult as it is.

1027
01:03:18,010 --> 01:03:21,730
You said already we had fun. It's fun to

1028
01:03:21,770 --> 01:03:25,490
produce like this and to make people feel good. You don't work,

1029
01:03:25,610 --> 01:03:29,362
I don't work. It's hospitality. Yes, we do. And you know,

1030
01:03:29,386 --> 01:03:33,058
you have fantastic people who love to learn, who love to appreciate,

1031
01:03:33,154 --> 01:03:36,738
who want to have fun and discover. And wine

1032
01:03:36,834 --> 01:03:40,546
is about that. There is nothing else. And everybody

1033
01:03:40,658 --> 01:03:44,130
has his own path of understanding and growing with

1034
01:03:44,170 --> 01:03:47,970
wine. And you need to respect that. You know, if

1035
01:03:48,010 --> 01:03:51,810
there's nothing right and nothing wrong about wine. Everybody has their own

1036
01:03:51,850 --> 01:03:55,154
path. And me, I try to accompany the path

1037
01:03:55,202 --> 01:03:58,962
and. And to make them happy and make myself happy at the

1038
01:03:58,986 --> 01:04:02,690
same time. Well, congratulations to this date 40

1039
01:04:02,730 --> 01:04:05,618
years later. It is so fun to be back and have a chat with you.

1040
01:04:05,674 --> 01:04:09,410
Yeah, fantastic. You need to come back more than 27 over here. Cheers.