Elegance? Smarts? Athleticism? Yes. She Has It All. Meet Florence Cathiard...

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In my selections, I try to cover a quite broad

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price range because I truly believe that

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wine is for everybody. It's not something that only

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people who are eager to pay 80 bucks a bottle,

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they should get a good wine. I think there are many good wines.

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15, 20, 25, €30 or 30

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bucks. My mission is really to try to find good

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wines also for a good price because I truly believe

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that wine is for everybody.

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Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine

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Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio today in

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Southern California. Beautiful day, actually, it's kind of cold today. About to have a

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conversation with Claudia Caligari at the Tuscan coast as she's looking at

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the ocean deep in the night.

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Have a listen to a show I just released on Zach Arman.

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He had brought to America the Armenian wine trade. He's opened up in

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28 states. It's a crazy good conversation about how to get started in

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distribution in America, though a very difficult industry.

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But now while we're here, we're here to have a conversation with Claudia Caligari.

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Welcome to the show. Thank you, Paul. Great pronunciation, by

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the way. Thank you. Well, we, well, I,

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I, I do speak French, but my Italian is probably

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completely worthless. And I appre. But I appreciate the compliment

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you are with. You call yourself the Tuscana. And this is what brought me to

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you on LinkedIn was the Tuscana Wine Club. But as well, you have a personal

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brand called Caligati Wine Room. Is that what it's called? That

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is correct, yes. And this is where you talk about all things wine. But the

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Tuscan Wine Club is what intrigued me because

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I think I sent you a message early on about like, oh, you know, and

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you said, well, I don't really, we're just. How old is the club? Well,

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it's about two years now. Yeah. Two years. Well,

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okay. So not very long. Yeah, it takes a little while.

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Yeah. Because I came from this industry of direct

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to consumer marketing and it really, what it is, it's kind of an

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interesting irony that we're faced with as a wine

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club subscription model because

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really probably you set out, or let me, you can answer the question. Did you

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set out to expose the drinking public, whether it's American

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or Italian, to what, the boutique side of Tuscan

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wines? What's the, what's the objective? That, that's correct. Really,

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the, the reason why I actually started this, this

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club and this whole idea of, of the discount of wine club

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is because I have a Long experience in the

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wine industry. I've been working in wineries for over 16 years.

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And therefore I had many people, many contacts,

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many customers, friends at the end of the day

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who always reached out to me asking about suggestions

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for, you know, niche wineries, boutique labels.

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And I would suggest so many nice wines. And

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they always told me, oh, nice, but we cannot find it in the States.

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So it was a little bit frustrating to see that only

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the predominantly the big brands reach

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international shelves. And so I thought,

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since in my experience I've met so many wineries, so many

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nice, authentic producers, I thought, why do I not come up

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with a model that connects small

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wineries with wine lovers just by shipping direct

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to consumer, from Italy to whenever, wherever in the

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world, nearly worldwide, really. This

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seems like, well, and correct me if I'm wrong,

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that the idea was good, but

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the execution was probably not so simple.

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Meaning, did you have. I mean, we already know the headwinds.

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Go ahead. It's actually growing. I'm, I'm pretty, pretty happy

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about it. Let me say that I come

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from the marketing world, so I've been in marketing

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all of my life in wines.

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And for me it was very easy or it was natural to come up

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with strategies and promotion. But one

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thing is to create a strategy and to plan

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an idea or a creative event. The other thing is to

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convert that into actual sales. And so that's the

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challenge that I'm facing myself, mostly due to the fact

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that I've never done it before. So I've always been just a

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marketeer. However, it's working,

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it's picking up, but it's not easy, as you

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correctly say, because there are so much digital

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competitions. I do have the feeling

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that my in person relationship, when I meet

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people, either in the US when I come for

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events, or when I come here touring the

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region, sales is really easy because they get to meet me, they

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see me, they can feel or know

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firsthand my choices, and therefore they trust

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immediately. I once said that in person activities have

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a 90% conversion rate because it's nearly

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impossible that anybody I know and I meet in person

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do not buy something at the end of the experience. But

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digital, it's a different thing. The competition is

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extremely high. The trust of people, it's something that you need

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to build over time. And therefore that's something a

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little bit challenging. Let's delve into that because it's kind of an interesting

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situation in that you're in Italy and you find these interesting

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wines from these boutique wineries, which I think would play out in any

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wine region of the world. But if it wasn't for the

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digital world, this would be almost an impossibility to market

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in America and get traction with any kind of

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expediency. Because you did it, you got traction in two years.

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But at the same time, yes. The barrage of messages

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for the consumer on their phone and in their computer

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and the wine itself. Once you click on a wine ad, you're going to get

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all kinds of wine ads that you are competing. What, what's your pitch? What are

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you trying to sell them? I'm not competing with any E

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commerce because I don't have the power for that. What I'm trying to really

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do is to build my personal brand. So I'm trying to make sure

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that people really trust my choices and they're

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happy and really happy to subscribe because

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once every four months or six months, they receive a shipment

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from me and it's always new, new wines that

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I personally select for for them. So

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taking into consideration their personal profile. So something a little

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bit more customized than an E Commerce, you know, that's something that

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I really don't, I don't consider as a competition because it's a completely

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different service. What I do, what I, that I

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have a CRM where I keep track of all the

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preferences of my customers. And

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before any new shipment, I send out a survey to see

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what they prefer from the previous shipments so that I can fine tune the

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next. And over time, I mean it's just two years, I already have

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quite a good history of

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my consumer profile, tasting profile or

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preferences. Yeah, it's a great work. I mean

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that's hard work and you are being successful at it. But you

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know, I, I did it for so long, like I said. And even though you

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are, I'll put another context. When I started

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doing it myself in 1988, I never

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thought the wineries, for instance, were my competition. The winery

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experience for somebody who visits Napa Valley and joins

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a club is because they did that. And so I would, I never

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considered them competition. But, but that was

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before the digital age. And now no matter what you do, if you're trying

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to attract somebody to your club, they're

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gonna be barraged with other E

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commerce clubs, wineries, because the algorithms are gonna

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suggest to their advertising platform

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to deliver a message. And so you're, are you

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differentiating yourself from those by saying, look,

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I'm on the ground here in Tuscany, I am creating these

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brands, you're never going to see them in America.

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And taking that the Next step. How do you do

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that? Well, I have a number of,

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of activities in my personal

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strategic plan. As I said earlier, in person activities

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are the one that works the most. So I'm really trying to push my in

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person events either in, in Italy, but mostly in the

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US Last year I did a tour in December

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where I organized five events

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and in ten days presented

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four labels which I selected to nearly 600

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people in person. Right. So

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those was really successful because again,

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conversion rate in that case was really high.

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And of course all those people that I meet in person then become

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at some point either repeated customers or they come to

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Italy sooner or later and then they reached out to me because, because

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they had a very good time at the event or they refer

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me to a friend who is coming to Italy. So it's a good,

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you know, a good, it's a good promotional tool which I would like

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to increase in the future.

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So as a matter of fact, I'm talking right now with an

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event agencies or with

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an agency in the US to help me find

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events opportunities in the US because that really what

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I think it's the most successful thing. And then the

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hospitality and touring of the region. Winery trees here in Italy,

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in Tuscany. It's also working very well because even

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if people just hear about it and see the

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videos and the posts about it, they

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might become customers because what they see what somebody else did and

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so they, you know, it's engaging even if, you know. I

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organized last year a wine retreat at Toscana Wine Retreat,

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which was an immersive experience of five days,

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four nights, all around wine education. We

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had like 12 people, not, not a lot, but the

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echo around it was really high. So people saw the

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videos, were getting excited as me signed up for the

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next dates. And so I'm trying to

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organize. I mean, as I said, I come from marketing, so I'm not

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a typical salesperson just trying to, you know, put the price and

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try to sell it. I'm not like that. I'm trying to create,

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yeah. Creative activities that help me promoting myself and

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my wines. That's really, it's funny you said that because

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generationally I have been watching on Facebook and

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Instagram and LinkedIn and all the different platforms a

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younger generation who probably has no sales

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skills in the sense of I spent my life selling stuff

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and it is a unique, you know, outlook on life

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and the, the number one premise of any sales

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organization. There's a guy in America who, who, who has more. I

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mean, the number of times I've heard His radio added,

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you know, nauseating. But he's talking about the

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most basic principles of salesmanship, which is understanding

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the customer's needs, where they're coming from, and, and

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satisfying those needs from what you have in your quiver and what

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you have in your arsenal of things to give. And if, if they don't

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align, then possibly the need of the consumer

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needs to be shifted in order to align with you. And that's, that's all it

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is. It's not a complicated thing. And I'm reading that they think this

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is such an enormous idea that we have to meet the consumer where they live

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and blah, blah. That's been done for the, you know,

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history of salesmanship. And they act like it's a new idea.

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But your thing, this is a fascinating to me

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because you're coming to America. This is a lot of, of work and,

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and logistics and planning, and then you end up

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with a 90 conversion rate. Meaning of the 600 people, probably

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540 of them signed up for your club.

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Or place an order, or place a. Single order, or place an

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order. Yeah. When my dad started this in the

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70s, in 1984, he learned about something similar to that, of

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course, in a different era, and that was showing up at a trade

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fair. And in, in America, we have these state fairs and county

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fairs and you go to them and there's always wine. And so he set up

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a booth and he went from 400 members in 1984 to 800

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members in 20 days. Wow. And this became our

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regular. I have a point to this, by the way. Our

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regular form of marketing from 1985 to

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2007. Interesting. Where we would just go to every

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weekend to some kind of show. In other words, what you're

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doing an experience for somebody to have a conversation, to shake their

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hand, to meet these people. Yeah. Because what does that do? That actually

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makes the customer loyal to you because they remember this

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handshake and this experience. And that changed when Groupon

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started and the Internet started and that became more difficult. And I. What I'm

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intrigued by is it sounds like based on

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what you're doing, what I've read, it's coming back to that. It's coming back to

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this experience. Yeah. I think there is just too much

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available and everything look very good

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online. Everything look gorgeous because, you know, with

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the AI, with the graphic design, everything looks

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nice. But people, or fewer and fewer people trust what they

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see. Really. So when they have the chance to meet someone

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in person and shake their hands, they really trust it. I mean, you

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Have a loyal customer forever if you are

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good at following up and getting back

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and so and so. But I truly believe

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about that personal touch. And that's where

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I base my business really. So that's why I would like

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to increase my events next year,

240
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in the next years. That's also why I'm

241
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doing my diploma with the WSDT school. I just want to build a little

242
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bit even more my authority. Even if I've been working in the business

243
00:14:52,038 --> 00:14:55,790
now for 18 years. But a

244
00:14:55,830 --> 00:14:59,422
name on a business card always helps. So I'm doing the diploma at

245
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wsct. Sure. That's great. Yeah. And

246
00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:07,558
you're becoming. And this is. There's another brand, it's

247
00:15:07,574 --> 00:15:11,238
called Perath. That was around when I was starting this industry and this guy

248
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was doing home wine tastings and they became very successful. He became a

249
00:15:14,910 --> 00:15:18,662
very large organization, a different era of life. So you can't really

250
00:15:18,686 --> 00:15:22,502
compare them. But it sounds like you're becoming the direct to consumer

251
00:15:22,566 --> 00:15:26,166
arm of smaller wineries. Yes,

252
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because you mentioned earlier that you realize that

253
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wineries were your competitors. But I

254
00:15:33,336 --> 00:15:36,800
don't feel that way because the wineries I normally work

255
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,192
with do not have their own wine club. They don't have the

256
00:15:40,216 --> 00:15:43,968
organization to promote themselves to direct to consumer. Not much,

257
00:15:44,024 --> 00:15:47,792
at least. And therefore they see me really

258
00:15:47,816 --> 00:15:51,488
as a partner when I bring a label to an event,

259
00:15:51,624 --> 00:15:55,394
to a tasting. They are very supportive there because I

260
00:15:55,402 --> 00:15:59,154
act as an ambassador, you know, I just don't list a wine

261
00:15:59,282 --> 00:16:03,090
on, on. On a website. I talk about it, I show the pictures.

262
00:16:03,170 --> 00:16:06,658
I try to share the passion behind it. I really

263
00:16:06,714 --> 00:16:10,350
make a lot of storytelling, which is what I have.

264
00:16:10,650 --> 00:16:14,434
I'm lucky enough to see every time I visit those people. So

265
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it's really true, you know, it's really something that

266
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I, I live firsthand and therefore they

267
00:16:21,434 --> 00:16:25,074
are very supportive with my venture. I don't work with many wineries

268
00:16:25,122 --> 00:16:28,389
right now, probably around 20,

269
00:16:28,538 --> 00:16:32,382
25 in Tuscany, that I work on with on a regular

270
00:16:32,446 --> 00:16:35,678
basis. But we have already built a quite strong

271
00:16:35,734 --> 00:16:39,022
relationship. It's actually the opposite. I didn't, I

272
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didn't think wineries were my competitors

273
00:16:42,718 --> 00:16:46,142
because of basically what you're doing now, which

274
00:16:46,166 --> 00:16:49,966
is creating an experience. Wineries are not competitors

275
00:16:49,998 --> 00:16:53,838
because I didn't have the. The value of show of a wine, of a person

276
00:16:53,894 --> 00:16:57,462
coming into my store. Well, we did have a store. But coming into my

277
00:16:57,486 --> 00:17:00,822
tasting room, for instance, and tasting a wine and then remembering that the rest of

278
00:17:00,846 --> 00:17:04,406
their life, in fact. I have an anecdotal story

279
00:17:04,478 --> 00:17:08,278
of a friend of mine. This is years ago. Who went to Italy, who was

280
00:17:08,334 --> 00:17:11,638
in Tuscany, who shared a glass of Chianti

281
00:17:11,654 --> 00:17:15,382
Classico with somebody and fell in love with it as

282
00:17:15,406 --> 00:17:19,190
they're sitting. Maybe they're in Rome, maybe they're in Florence. I don't know where they're

283
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:22,965
exactly. And they asked me to get them the wine, and

284
00:17:23,037 --> 00:17:26,709
I did. And they. With, oddly, this particular brand that

285
00:17:26,749 --> 00:17:30,209
tasted was available in America. Okay, so,

286
00:17:31,069 --> 00:17:34,917
no, you know what? This is actually funnier. They had it there, they

287
00:17:34,973 --> 00:17:37,489
took a picture, asked me if I could get it,

288
00:17:38,669 --> 00:17:41,781
and then I got it for them. They said it doesn't taste the same. Oh,

289
00:17:41,845 --> 00:17:45,381
wow. That happens quite often. I go, because you're not on

290
00:17:45,405 --> 00:17:49,186
vacation. Yeah, but. So it's funny

291
00:17:49,218 --> 00:17:52,882
that you tell me this, because I've heard a couple of

292
00:17:52,906 --> 00:17:56,754
times this theory, and last time when I

293
00:17:56,762 --> 00:18:00,466
was in the US In December, someone told.

294
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Specifically told me, well, I really like this wine. I

295
00:18:04,186 --> 00:18:07,442
taste it in America. So if you ship it from Italy, it will taste the

296
00:18:07,466 --> 00:18:11,310
same. Okay, that's an interesting point of view.

297
00:18:11,770 --> 00:18:15,250
That's a total. Yeah, that's totally right. And the other one, which is even

298
00:18:15,290 --> 00:18:19,122
funnier, he. This other couple had a wine at

299
00:18:19,146 --> 00:18:22,962
a restaurant, and they ordered it from Italy, and

300
00:18:22,986 --> 00:18:26,770
it came to America, and it got sent back because the. The licensing wasn't in

301
00:18:26,810 --> 00:18:30,034
place. And then they asked if they could use my import license to bring it

302
00:18:30,042 --> 00:18:33,890
here, which I did for them. And so they. They picked it up.

303
00:18:34,010 --> 00:18:36,962
And I said, by the way, where did you have this? He said, in New

304
00:18:36,986 --> 00:18:39,554
York. I go, what do you mean? He goes, yeah, we had a restaurant in

305
00:18:39,562 --> 00:18:42,362
New York. I said, are you trying to tell me you had a restaurant, a

306
00:18:42,386 --> 00:18:46,010
wine in New York, but you ordered from Italy, and then you went through months

307
00:18:46,050 --> 00:18:49,770
of. Of turmoil to. To land it here when it was

308
00:18:49,810 --> 00:18:53,082
already here in America? And I could have gotten it the next day, probably or

309
00:18:53,106 --> 00:18:56,714
two days later. They're like, no, we didn't know that, you know, but

310
00:18:56,882 --> 00:19:00,070
that's why Tuscany. You grew up there?

311
00:19:00,530 --> 00:19:03,430
No, I actually moved to Tuscany in 2008.

312
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,720
It was my second working experience in wineries, and

313
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,464
I've been hired by a large winery

314
00:19:13,512 --> 00:19:17,208
in Montalcino called Bamfi, you probably know. Oh, I know

315
00:19:17,344 --> 00:19:20,696
May. What's her name? May. Christina May. Cristina. May Cristina

316
00:19:20,728 --> 00:19:24,408
Mariani. May. Yes. Lovely, Lovely woman. Yes. I've

317
00:19:24,424 --> 00:19:28,200
been working. So I moved to Tuscany for. For wine. Really? For. For

318
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,448
my job, for work. And I will be working there for 12

319
00:19:31,504 --> 00:19:35,332
years before I moved to the coast to work in the

320
00:19:35,356 --> 00:19:38,724
Bulgari region. And work for Marilisa Allegrini,

321
00:19:38,772 --> 00:19:42,420
another wonderful Italian woman of

322
00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:46,240
wine. And, and yeah, after that experience

323
00:19:46,540 --> 00:19:50,308
and after, you know, what I learned along the way, I decided to start

324
00:19:50,364 --> 00:19:54,212
up my own business. You know, it's interesting you said women and

325
00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:57,444
wine because I interviewed Emilia

326
00:19:57,492 --> 00:20:01,156
Nardi from Sylvia

327
00:20:01,188 --> 00:20:04,964
Nardi and, and Montecino. I had Christina May on the

328
00:20:04,972 --> 00:20:08,820
show when she was here in la. And you know, the woman

329
00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:12,500
and wine conversation is, it's important that this month

330
00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:16,340
it's a, an awareness issue this month, but for a long

331
00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:20,180
time it was highlighted

332
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:23,908
and that not only because there was a small amount of women making

333
00:20:23,964 --> 00:20:27,434
wine, but they're even less percentage wise in executive roles,

334
00:20:27,532 --> 00:20:31,182
entrepreneurial roles and you know, CEO type roles. And

335
00:20:31,206 --> 00:20:34,958
that's changed some. I sent off a young

336
00:20:35,014 --> 00:20:38,862
intern here at the Wine of the Month club to Cornell. She went to, she

337
00:20:38,886 --> 00:20:42,210
got accepted to Cornell Enology School. And, and she's.

338
00:20:42,550 --> 00:20:46,222
Her job was to write all the talking points for the podcast I did

339
00:20:46,246 --> 00:20:49,982
with women at the time couple years ago. And is there, is there

340
00:20:50,006 --> 00:20:53,688
an awareness in Italy for women

341
00:20:53,744 --> 00:20:57,512
in wine and has it been a tougher road for women in

342
00:20:57,536 --> 00:21:01,080
wine in Italy? Well, in a production

343
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,000
side it is traditionally male, I have to say there

344
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,140
is now a shift. There are new winemakers,

345
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,860
female winemakers. It's changing, but

346
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,816
I would say that it's still a pretty much male

347
00:21:15,928 --> 00:21:19,448
area. If we talk about marketing,

348
00:21:19,544 --> 00:21:23,090
promotion, sales even, I think

349
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:27,318
the women's share has been growing dramatically

350
00:21:27,414 --> 00:21:31,010
over the last 20 years

351
00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:34,982
and now probably it's not even. But there is a

352
00:21:35,006 --> 00:21:38,678
very large part of it. And I've

353
00:21:38,694 --> 00:21:42,486
been asked many times this question about my point of view on

354
00:21:42,558 --> 00:21:46,150
women and wine. And personally I always found

355
00:21:46,190 --> 00:21:49,894
it as a plus for myself working as a marketeer. So marketing

356
00:21:49,942 --> 00:21:53,670
promotion, events, I've always, I mean, I never had

357
00:21:53,710 --> 00:21:57,302
a problem. I always find that being a

358
00:21:57,326 --> 00:22:00,710
woman was just a plus in this

359
00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:04,198
part. And it's nice to see that there are so many

360
00:22:04,254 --> 00:22:08,006
new female venture. Actually, a couple

361
00:22:08,038 --> 00:22:11,254
of months ago I helped out an American

362
00:22:11,342 --> 00:22:15,174
importer build up her wine

363
00:22:15,222 --> 00:22:19,046
portfolio from Tuscany and, and she specifically asked

364
00:22:19,118 --> 00:22:22,966
for wineries run by women,

365
00:22:23,118 --> 00:22:26,262
which was a very interesting project to work on.

366
00:22:26,446 --> 00:22:30,086
So there are, there are many, there are many around and

367
00:22:30,238 --> 00:22:33,926
there is, I think that the future is bright.

368
00:22:34,038 --> 00:22:37,798
There's so much, there's not much distinction really

369
00:22:37,854 --> 00:22:41,702
anymore. I think, I think, I think that the lines have been

370
00:22:41,726 --> 00:22:45,382
blurred. Actually the best comment was from a woman winemaker in

371
00:22:45,406 --> 00:22:48,342
Napa who I spoke with and she said, I don't even know why we have

372
00:22:48,366 --> 00:22:52,086
to even Bring it up like. Yeah. Why? Is it part of the discussion?

373
00:22:52,198 --> 00:22:55,910
Yeah, but at the same time, it is Women in Wine Month

374
00:22:55,950 --> 00:22:59,414
or something right now here in America. And. Yeah,

375
00:22:59,462 --> 00:23:02,406
and there are a lot of like, association

376
00:23:02,598 --> 00:23:06,310
groups, events. I don't belong to any

377
00:23:06,350 --> 00:23:10,144
of them really, because it's, it's just normal to be

378
00:23:10,152 --> 00:23:13,968
a woman in the business, you know. And so, I mean, I, I don't

379
00:23:13,984 --> 00:23:17,696
dislike creating networks, of course, but it's

380
00:23:17,728 --> 00:23:20,500
not my. Yeah, it's not my goal. It's.

381
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,200
I had a wonderful young girl on the show. She was a young black

382
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,288
girl and she was in Oakland and she was making wine from

383
00:23:28,344 --> 00:23:32,192
flowers. Oh, it was a fascinating conversation. And I said,

384
00:23:32,216 --> 00:23:35,862
have you, have you run into any, you know, sexism?

385
00:23:35,926 --> 00:23:39,414
She says, not only sexism, racism and

386
00:23:39,502 --> 00:23:43,318
grape supremacy. Okay. Like, well, I've never heard that before.

387
00:23:43,374 --> 00:23:46,390
And what she meant was when she would go into a wine shop with her

388
00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:49,718
flower, wine based on flowers, and then the,

389
00:23:49,854 --> 00:23:53,526
the proprietor would say, well, we only buy wine

390
00:23:53,558 --> 00:23:54,970
that's made from grapes.

391
00:23:57,310 --> 00:24:00,790
I go, that's pretty funny. So when you, when you bring your wines to, to

392
00:24:00,830 --> 00:24:04,530
America. Now I'm gonna come clean on something. We

393
00:24:04,570 --> 00:24:08,310
were in Tuscany. We were actually near Cortona.

394
00:24:08,890 --> 00:24:12,674
And we, I had a great time in Cortona. I went with

395
00:24:12,682 --> 00:24:16,482
the wine shop owner and we, we had a lot of fun. But we went

396
00:24:16,506 --> 00:24:20,210
on this little wine tour and I was compelled to buy

397
00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:22,866
wine. And my wife was like, why are you buying wine? You have a warehouse

398
00:24:22,898 --> 00:24:26,274
full of wine. I said, well, we're out, you know, and

399
00:24:26,442 --> 00:24:29,806
it had a little bit of character. It's

400
00:24:29,998 --> 00:24:33,806
satisfactory. But by the time I brought it here

401
00:24:33,878 --> 00:24:37,390
and it cost me a lot of money for what would have been just

402
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:40,958
regular old generic California based wine,

403
00:24:41,134 --> 00:24:44,574
it was undrinkable. I mean, I couldn't drink it. I threw it all away. I

404
00:24:44,582 --> 00:24:48,142
wouldn't even give it away. It was, it was just not good, which just

405
00:24:48,166 --> 00:24:51,070
wasn't made well. It wasn't like it was a bad bottle. It was all just

406
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:54,842
not drinkable. And so the point I'm making is, you know, this

407
00:24:54,866 --> 00:24:58,490
is a complicated logistical issue. Here you are in Italy, you get

408
00:24:58,530 --> 00:25:01,354
small makers, you got to get the stuff on the boat and you got to

409
00:25:01,362 --> 00:25:04,922
get it to land in America. You must use a clearinghouse or distributor in

410
00:25:04,946 --> 00:25:07,882
America to, to get it in the thing and then you have to ship it

411
00:25:07,906 --> 00:25:11,530
to somebody or are you packaging it there and shipping it direct? Yes.

412
00:25:11,610 --> 00:25:15,226
Really direct? Yes. So direct

413
00:25:15,298 --> 00:25:19,130
to consumer in Italy has become such a big thing. Directly from

414
00:25:19,170 --> 00:25:22,670
wineries. To, to the final consumer that now there

415
00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:26,090
are logistic companies in Italy that

416
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:30,270
take care of the whole journey of the wine. So they pack it

417
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:33,838
here in a very safe

418
00:25:33,934 --> 00:25:37,470
container with plastic insert inside so that

419
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:41,262
you make sure that the bottle will not break first of all. And

420
00:25:41,286 --> 00:25:43,130
also the temperature will be

421
00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:49,118
better over time. And what this

422
00:25:49,174 --> 00:25:52,970
logistic do is to all the free tiers of the

423
00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:56,730
system so they have a federal license, they have a distribution

424
00:25:56,810 --> 00:26:00,506
license and a connection with the local retailers

425
00:26:00,618 --> 00:26:03,962
just to dispatch the wines. So everything is

426
00:26:04,066 --> 00:26:07,722
completely legal but it's shipped direct from Italy

427
00:26:07,786 --> 00:26:11,418
and is shipped on a plane. So

428
00:26:11,474 --> 00:26:15,242
is. I'll tell you, I did this for, like I said, a long

429
00:26:15,266 --> 00:26:18,764
time and I was not legal. I mean it was mostly legal. I mean, I

430
00:26:18,772 --> 00:26:22,572
don't know if that's even a legitimate term, mostly legal. Okay. But

431
00:26:22,676 --> 00:26:25,820
my licensing allowed me to do all that I was able to ship into those

432
00:26:25,860 --> 00:26:29,676
states. I did legitimately. I paid the taxes on the wine, etc.

433
00:26:29,788 --> 00:26:33,052
But I sort of fudged the rules on what I could ship and what I

434
00:26:33,076 --> 00:26:36,604
couldn't ship. So Sounds like it's easier to ship from Italy than it

435
00:26:36,612 --> 00:26:40,300
is. Well, I don't go

436
00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:44,140
into the retail system so my, my

437
00:26:44,180 --> 00:26:47,480
shipment is a direct to consumer so it will not touch the

438
00:26:47,780 --> 00:26:51,512
retail system. And, and ye they have developed

439
00:26:51,576 --> 00:26:55,368
or they have made agreements with local

440
00:26:55,424 --> 00:26:58,888
retailers to make sure that all the paperwork is done

441
00:26:58,944 --> 00:27:02,380
accordingly. How do, how do you find your customers?

442
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,144
Well, I started with my personal connections

443
00:27:07,192 --> 00:27:10,580
as I said. Giving up any trade secrets now? Well,

444
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,064
I started with my personal connection. First of all

445
00:27:15,152 --> 00:27:18,300
I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn

446
00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:22,018
because I decided that it's my number one

447
00:27:22,154 --> 00:27:25,650
platform. I'm a sole entrepreneur so I don't have the

448
00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:29,426
time to work on every social media

449
00:27:29,498 --> 00:27:33,058
ever right now. Maybe in the future I will if I will have some

450
00:27:33,114 --> 00:27:36,914
help. But right now I'm Quite active on LinkedIn and I do a lot

451
00:27:36,922 --> 00:27:40,386
of networking as I said. So I'm trying to really

452
00:27:40,458 --> 00:27:43,782
find any opportunities I can get

453
00:27:43,946 --> 00:27:47,470
to be in front of the people either with

454
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:51,326
tours or these speaking gigs

455
00:27:51,358 --> 00:27:54,830
they call you call it, which has proven very

456
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:58,210
successful. Last year I did, as I said, five events.

457
00:28:01,110 --> 00:28:04,862
That was my second time actually the first time it was a

458
00:28:04,886 --> 00:28:08,286
good try but not perfect. So last year I did some

459
00:28:08,358 --> 00:28:11,950
speaking coaching, speaking session

460
00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:15,130
and it was really successful, really

461
00:28:15,890 --> 00:28:19,578
standing ovation at the end of the show. So it was very.

462
00:28:19,714 --> 00:28:23,242
Yeah. What was the subject of that? What was the subject of that

463
00:28:23,266 --> 00:28:26,810
presentation? Well, what I do in these

464
00:28:26,850 --> 00:28:30,458
events, for example, just, just to Create the context.

465
00:28:30,554 --> 00:28:33,594
There was this location who was trying to raise

466
00:28:33,642 --> 00:28:37,130
funds for a specific cause. And I

467
00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:40,922
offered the format of a wine tasting. So what I did was to ship the

468
00:28:40,946 --> 00:28:44,762
wines for before the events. And I came with my four wines which

469
00:28:44,786 --> 00:28:48,286
I specifically selected for that event. And I

470
00:28:48,358 --> 00:28:52,050
organize an educational tasting,

471
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:56,894
storytelling, because my style is not too technical. What I try to

472
00:28:56,902 --> 00:29:00,590
do when I do wine tasting events is really to engage with the people and

473
00:29:00,630 --> 00:29:04,414
try to, yes, give some educational tips, but

474
00:29:04,502 --> 00:29:08,014
a lot of stories, some humor around it,

475
00:29:08,102 --> 00:29:11,742
good wines, of course. And so it ended up being a

476
00:29:11,766 --> 00:29:15,396
very enjoyable night for everybody. Those

477
00:29:15,518 --> 00:29:19,176
very wine geek was coming to me with specific questions

478
00:29:19,288 --> 00:29:23,032
afterwards, but all the other ones were just enjoying the stories

479
00:29:23,096 --> 00:29:26,792
behind. And I chosen four wines from

480
00:29:26,896 --> 00:29:30,616
Tuscany, but from four different regions of Tuscany

481
00:29:30,648 --> 00:29:34,344
or areas. And therefore, that night was

482
00:29:34,432 --> 00:29:37,816
kind of a virtual journey through Tuscany, was showing pictures of

483
00:29:37,888 --> 00:29:41,672
places, giving a sense of the area, of the culture of

484
00:29:41,696 --> 00:29:45,358
the region. And people were really,

485
00:29:45,414 --> 00:29:49,050
really engaged. And at the end of the show,

486
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:53,102
when they tasted the wine that I've been talking about and paired

487
00:29:53,166 --> 00:29:56,330
with some food, if they were interested, they could

488
00:29:58,310 --> 00:30:01,970
place some orders, ship direct. That's.

489
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:06,286
And where was this? What city? Well, that's

490
00:30:06,318 --> 00:30:09,610
another good point because I decided to focus

491
00:30:10,150 --> 00:30:13,998
on places which are a little bit off the beaten

492
00:30:14,014 --> 00:30:17,598
path. So I'm not going to New York or to California,

493
00:30:17,694 --> 00:30:21,230
where all the wines of the world are there, but I go

494
00:30:21,270 --> 00:30:24,782
to, you know, I went to Iowa, for

495
00:30:24,806 --> 00:30:28,622
example, I went to Illinois in Chicago, and I went

496
00:30:28,646 --> 00:30:32,142
to Nebraska. And my most successful events were in

497
00:30:32,166 --> 00:30:35,832
Nebraska. Really? I had the Andrew Lincoln. Yeah,

498
00:30:35,896 --> 00:30:39,320
yeah. I did an event in Lincoln and I did the two events in

499
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,728
Omaha. And the event in omaha could

500
00:30:42,784 --> 00:30:45,740
host 130 people seated.

501
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,912
And it was fully booked in

502
00:30:49,936 --> 00:30:53,512
about a week. So we did a double date, like a Friday and a

503
00:30:53,536 --> 00:30:56,952
Saturday. And also the Saturday was fully booked.

504
00:30:57,096 --> 00:31:00,360
So I had in that location 260 people

505
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,088
listening to my stories. And it was very nice. And

506
00:31:04,144 --> 00:31:07,352
those were the most successful events. You know, that is

507
00:31:07,376 --> 00:31:11,000
amazing. I. I think I knew about this because my

508
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,232
brother lives in Lincoln. Oh, wow. And my brother

509
00:31:14,296 --> 00:31:17,896
was also the president of a touring company

510
00:31:17,968 --> 00:31:21,608
for a long time. He retired now, but I think they sent

511
00:31:21,664 --> 00:31:25,512
me somehow or my nephew who's got

512
00:31:25,536 --> 00:31:28,888
an interest in wine. And I just

513
00:31:29,024 --> 00:31:32,594
struck a memory that there was somebody coming to town and they were going to

514
00:31:32,602 --> 00:31:36,002
talk about Italian wines. I may have known about your

515
00:31:36,026 --> 00:31:39,858
event, unknowingly know about it. That's

516
00:31:39,874 --> 00:31:43,650
fascinating. I think that's a brilliant thing to do. And.

517
00:31:43,770 --> 00:31:47,234
And the reason I Brought up this gentleman in Cortona who was a jeweler

518
00:31:47,362 --> 00:31:50,110
who had a wine shop in Kansas City

519
00:31:51,050 --> 00:31:54,818
as well as in Cortona. Figure that out, right? I mean, are you talking about

520
00:31:54,874 --> 00:31:58,412
Mollusini? Right. Yes. You know, I know him very well.

521
00:31:58,516 --> 00:32:02,332
Yes. So he wanted me to. To help him, which I'm happy to

522
00:32:02,356 --> 00:32:06,092
do, but we have nothing yet. And that was the exact

523
00:32:06,156 --> 00:32:09,244
comment was we got to find places. And my wife was like, why are you

524
00:32:09,252 --> 00:32:12,732
gonna go to Napa? I mean, the Napa, they're not going to come to your

525
00:32:12,756 --> 00:32:16,460
show. But if you go to Temecula in California, which is a wine

526
00:32:16,540 --> 00:32:20,284
area, but not, you know, snooty wine area

527
00:32:20,372 --> 00:32:23,752
or some other small village or small city in

528
00:32:23,776 --> 00:32:26,980
America that they don't see these things.

529
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,128
Yeah, it's a brilliant idea and I think

530
00:32:31,184 --> 00:32:34,952
really good for the industry. Yes. Because they are very excited to

531
00:32:34,976 --> 00:32:38,696
come. I mean, it's not just another event. For example, the Chicago

532
00:32:38,728 --> 00:32:42,088
event I did was probably the least successful because

533
00:32:42,144 --> 00:32:45,512
Chicago, busy town, it was the coldest time of the

534
00:32:45,536 --> 00:32:49,272
year. Many events in place, so I had like 60 or

535
00:32:49,296 --> 00:32:53,084
70 people, not many. So. So yeah,

536
00:32:53,132 --> 00:32:56,828
all the other ones were really successful. No, that's great. And so have you

537
00:32:56,884 --> 00:33:00,652
planned then this next tour and where you

538
00:33:00,676 --> 00:33:04,284
think you're going to go? Yeah, well, I'm probably coming. Well, I would like to

539
00:33:04,292 --> 00:33:07,868
go back to Nebraska, I have to say, because I have now, I've been. I've

540
00:33:07,884 --> 00:33:11,692
been there already twice, which means that the first year was a guest from

541
00:33:11,716 --> 00:33:15,452
them, and the second year they called me back, which is. It's very

542
00:33:15,476 --> 00:33:19,312
nice. It's always nice when they call you back. So I hope I will

543
00:33:19,336 --> 00:33:23,168
be back either in December once again, or

544
00:33:23,224 --> 00:33:26,672
let's see. And then I'm planning

545
00:33:26,816 --> 00:33:30,192
from June this year on after I'm done with my

546
00:33:30,216 --> 00:33:33,952
diploma course, because I have my exam in May and now

547
00:33:33,976 --> 00:33:37,792
I'm just studying all the time. After my

548
00:33:37,816 --> 00:33:41,540
exam in May, I'm planning to hire an agency

549
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,088
who is going to help me create new opportunities.

550
00:33:46,264 --> 00:33:49,784
And what's the response then? I mean, Italian wine,

551
00:33:49,832 --> 00:33:53,592
Sangiovese, you know, super Tuscans. Is

552
00:33:53,616 --> 00:33:56,600
it, is it a new to them? Do they, do they go, wow, I've never

553
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,928
even heard of this? Or are they like, these are the best I've ever had?

554
00:33:59,984 --> 00:34:03,800
Or what's their general level of knowledge and

555
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,592
education when it comes to the wines you bring? Well, so

556
00:34:07,616 --> 00:34:10,900
far the general knowledge was medium to low.

557
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:15,182
So again, before the event, I send out a survey just

558
00:34:15,206 --> 00:34:18,766
to make a few questions and get the Feeling, you know, if those

559
00:34:18,838 --> 00:34:22,542
people have been to wine tasting before, if they can name a name of

560
00:34:22,566 --> 00:34:26,302
a variety from Tuscany. Simple, simple questions. And

561
00:34:26,326 --> 00:34:29,662
therefore my events were really a mix of

562
00:34:29,766 --> 00:34:33,358
educational, but really how to taste a wine. So not

563
00:34:33,414 --> 00:34:37,006
specifically Tuscan, very general

564
00:34:37,158 --> 00:34:40,801
wine tasting education. Bits, bits here and there and

565
00:34:40,825 --> 00:34:43,909
then a deep dive into the Tuscan varieties.

566
00:34:44,569 --> 00:34:48,385
The funniest thing, once I did an event and we had

567
00:34:48,457 --> 00:34:52,193
three Sangiovese and one Vernaccia was a gentleman came to

568
00:34:52,201 --> 00:34:54,629
me and said, don't you have a Cabernet Sauvignon?

569
00:34:55,929 --> 00:34:59,457
So I was trying to explain, I mean, I

570
00:34:59,513 --> 00:35:03,041
brought on purpose three different Sangiovese from three different

571
00:35:03,145 --> 00:35:06,664
areas really to talk about the differences within

572
00:35:06,752 --> 00:35:10,232
one region and how they can express differently. And at the

573
00:35:10,256 --> 00:35:13,848
end, well, it was a little bit surprised that there were no other

574
00:35:13,984 --> 00:35:17,496
international variety. But overall, everybody is quite

575
00:35:17,528 --> 00:35:20,984
pleased by the quality of the wines. Let me say that

576
00:35:21,152 --> 00:35:24,420
the wines, I'm independent, so I don't have any

577
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,384
particular relationship or commitment to any winery.

578
00:35:29,512 --> 00:35:33,192
And therefore the wine that I bring, I really. Wines that I

579
00:35:33,216 --> 00:35:36,264
truly trust that I think that they can meet the

580
00:35:36,432 --> 00:35:40,232
appreciation of my customers. So I never bring

581
00:35:40,336 --> 00:35:44,120
extreme wines or too much oxidize. I try

582
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,540
to really pick a style that I think can

583
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,140
be appreciated by, by most of the people.

584
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,296
Obviously I pick wines that I like myself, which

585
00:35:56,368 --> 00:36:00,152
is my number one criteria when I list a

586
00:36:00,176 --> 00:36:03,942
wine in my wine club. And yeah, overall, I

587
00:36:03,966 --> 00:36:07,638
think that people are really mostly happy about the experience

588
00:36:07,774 --> 00:36:11,590
because of the wine tasting and the educational and learning something

589
00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:15,334
new, because that's something that probably they did not have the chance to do

590
00:36:15,422 --> 00:36:19,222
that often. You triggered a memory of mine. And

591
00:36:19,246 --> 00:36:22,918
that was, that was exactly our pitch at the Wine of the Month Club,

592
00:36:22,974 --> 00:36:26,726
which was an earlier time when wines that

593
00:36:26,878 --> 00:36:30,206
we sourced were true

594
00:36:30,318 --> 00:36:34,158
finds. It, it got toward the end of the 35 years. And I'm talking

595
00:36:34,174 --> 00:36:37,822
about up to a few years ago where, you know, to find wines in that

596
00:36:37,846 --> 00:36:41,662
price range, you weren't finding rare, interesting, fun wines. You

597
00:36:41,686 --> 00:36:45,230
were finding bulk items that were coming in from

598
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:48,254
Spain that, you know, you had to figure out which ones were better than the

599
00:36:48,262 --> 00:36:52,062
others. And that that was not what my, my ambition was. And

600
00:36:52,086 --> 00:36:55,896
that's one of the, one of the justifications for selling it was it

601
00:36:55,968 --> 00:36:59,400
no longer became that interesting find, it no longer became an

602
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,192
interesting overstock. We did wines, you know, there was a, I remember one

603
00:37:03,216 --> 00:37:07,032
wine from Sebastiani, which is a very famous family owned winery at the time,

604
00:37:07,136 --> 00:37:10,984
and they found, you know, 10 pallets of this wine in their warehouse

605
00:37:11,032 --> 00:37:14,360
that had just not forgotten about, but it just wasn't doing anything. It was

606
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,120
great. But the reason they had it was they had the three

607
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,872
year old daughter scribble on a piece of paper and that was the label. And

608
00:37:21,896 --> 00:37:24,880
they decided not to take the label to the street because it just was not,

609
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,352
you know, it wasn't Sebastiani. And that's what we lived on. These

610
00:37:28,376 --> 00:37:32,128
interesting wines that had a fun story and that

611
00:37:32,184 --> 00:37:35,952
changed. But it's kind of ironic to me we

612
00:37:35,976 --> 00:37:39,728
would say the same thing. You, you're just saying I'm not aligned with a particular

613
00:37:39,784 --> 00:37:43,552
one. So you get the best value, you get the interesting things. I

614
00:37:43,576 --> 00:37:45,952
find I go out on the street and I look for you. And that's a

615
00:37:45,976 --> 00:37:49,722
really important feature to a proper wine club. One thing one

616
00:37:49,746 --> 00:37:53,242
of my customer told me that showed me, but just because I don't

617
00:37:53,306 --> 00:37:57,050
really know very much or very well how

618
00:37:57,090 --> 00:38:00,762
the American wine club work. Once he

619
00:38:00,786 --> 00:38:04,586
told me, I really like your wine club because unlike

620
00:38:04,698 --> 00:38:07,594
some wineries wine club that send out

621
00:38:07,762 --> 00:38:11,562
leftovers wines to the memberships, my wines

622
00:38:11,626 --> 00:38:15,054
in the shipments are just selected on purpose for the wine

623
00:38:15,102 --> 00:38:18,750
clubs. So I don't have any leftovers or it's not like an old

624
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:22,494
vintage that I need to, you know, get out of the warehouse

625
00:38:22,542 --> 00:38:26,382
or whatever. So this, this gentleman actually

626
00:38:26,566 --> 00:38:28,890
I'm sorry about those wineries but he

627
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:33,518
canceled the two subscription and enter into

628
00:38:33,574 --> 00:38:37,262
mine because he really liked the fact that he was always getting

629
00:38:37,446 --> 00:38:40,666
new wines with a thought, you know, a thoughtful

630
00:38:40,858 --> 00:38:44,682
selection behind. And don't feel bad for the other wineries.

631
00:38:44,746 --> 00:38:48,586
Yeah, well, and there's

632
00:38:48,618 --> 00:38:52,250
something that you said that, that makes me think about the fact

633
00:38:52,290 --> 00:38:55,722
that in my selections I try to

634
00:38:55,746 --> 00:38:59,370
cover a quite broad price range because

635
00:38:59,410 --> 00:39:03,002
I truly believe that wine is for everybody. I

636
00:39:03,026 --> 00:39:06,600
mean it's not something that only people who are

637
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,280
eager to pay 80 bucks a bottle, they should get

638
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,136
good wine. I think there are loads many good wines,

639
00:39:14,328 --> 00:39:17,768
15, 20, 25, €30 or 30

640
00:39:17,824 --> 00:39:21,100
bucks. And my mission

641
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,224
is really to try to find good wines also for a

642
00:39:25,232 --> 00:39:28,500
good price. Obviously in my wine club you will find also

643
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,808
single vineyard Brunello's over

644
00:39:32,864 --> 00:39:36,460
$100. But you will also find very good

645
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:40,044
wines for a good price. Because I truly believe that

646
00:39:40,212 --> 00:39:43,884
wine is for everybody. You know, it's an interesting

647
00:39:43,932 --> 00:39:47,560
thought because I had this conversation this morning.

648
00:39:48,660 --> 00:39:52,444
Then we were talking about entry level Burgonne. Like when you go to

649
00:39:52,452 --> 00:39:56,284
the supermarket in America, you see Lu Jadot and a

650
00:39:56,292 --> 00:39:59,980
couple other major brands and their entry level versions of

651
00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:03,896
Burgundy and they're not good. You Know,

652
00:40:04,048 --> 00:40:07,576
I'm not disparaging the brand, but the large,

653
00:40:07,728 --> 00:40:11,432
some of the large houses that bring in Von Rouge, you know,

654
00:40:11,456 --> 00:40:14,520
they're just, they're okay. But there's some

655
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,280
wonderful entry level burgundies from these small

656
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,832
makers that if you go to the right place to buy them or the right

657
00:40:21,856 --> 00:40:25,032
wine shop, you can get about the same price and you can get something that

658
00:40:25,056 --> 00:40:28,830
actually is quite revealing to the region.

659
00:40:29,130 --> 00:40:32,722
And Chianti clearly is like that.

660
00:40:32,826 --> 00:40:36,402
You know, I've had, I've had Chiantis and fiascos that

661
00:40:36,426 --> 00:40:39,970
were excellent, but most of them are, you

662
00:40:40,010 --> 00:40:43,634
know, the traditional idea behind a

663
00:40:43,642 --> 00:40:47,410
fiasco, which is like the country wine. But the. There are some really

664
00:40:47,450 --> 00:40:51,282
good entry level Chiantis that if you

665
00:40:51,306 --> 00:40:54,734
know where to go to get them, Keani Classicos too. There are some very

666
00:40:54,902 --> 00:40:58,410
well priced Keani Classicos. But again,

667
00:40:59,030 --> 00:41:02,366
you know, the, the way marketing and Wine in America

668
00:41:02,398 --> 00:41:05,742
works is very hard to get shelf space and

669
00:41:05,766 --> 00:41:09,502
exposure for those brands because of many, many factors.

670
00:41:09,646 --> 00:41:12,810
And here you are finding those exact things

671
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:16,862
and sending them direct to the consumer. Truly, you

672
00:41:16,886 --> 00:41:20,728
know, but the point I was going to bring up earlier was your club

673
00:41:20,784 --> 00:41:23,912
has that premise. I'm going to find you the best I can find and for

674
00:41:23,936 --> 00:41:27,624
the price. And this customer of yours was like, yeah, I get

675
00:41:27,712 --> 00:41:31,304
leftover things from winers. I think that's changing. Okay.

676
00:41:31,432 --> 00:41:35,032
Because particularly post Covid, the direct to

677
00:41:35,056 --> 00:41:38,408
consumer model was critical in most

678
00:41:38,464 --> 00:41:42,232
wineries revenue stream because they couldn't. There was no

679
00:41:42,256 --> 00:41:45,666
tasting room. Right. Yeah. And so many now

680
00:41:45,848 --> 00:41:49,566
create brands or create blends just

681
00:41:49,638 --> 00:41:53,054
for the direct to consumer club. And so they make it a benefit

682
00:41:53,182 --> 00:41:55,870
to join the club because you're going to get access to stuff that we make

683
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:59,726
that nobody else can get. And I think that's an important piece.

684
00:41:59,918 --> 00:42:03,726
You're doing that anyway. Right. They can't get them.

685
00:42:03,798 --> 00:42:07,582
But you're combining that with the idea you're not aligned with. Because

686
00:42:07,606 --> 00:42:11,102
I also look at this and maybe this is one of the pitches that you

687
00:42:11,126 --> 00:42:14,840
could use or do use, and that is if you decorate your

688
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,664
home with the same artist's paintings, eventually it becomes mundane

689
00:42:18,712 --> 00:42:22,552
because you get used to the style. Because the style doesn't waver too

690
00:42:22,576 --> 00:42:25,768
much unless you're somebody like Dali or somebody.

691
00:42:25,944 --> 00:42:29,560
But wine is kind of the same. You know, if you have the same

692
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,432
winemaker and they're making wines from just various plots of vineyards or various

693
00:42:33,496 --> 00:42:37,192
grapes, you end up with a theme. There's a thematic feeling

694
00:42:37,256 --> 00:42:40,978
to a group of wines made by the same winemaker.

695
00:42:41,104 --> 00:42:44,862
And you're Avoiding that, yeah, I'm trying to do that. And I

696
00:42:44,886 --> 00:42:48,270
see that there. I thought I knew many

697
00:42:48,310 --> 00:42:52,126
wineries, but since I started this business, obviously I

698
00:42:52,198 --> 00:42:56,030
get exposure also to wineries. So people reach

699
00:42:56,070 --> 00:42:59,422
out to me to look for opportunities to

700
00:42:59,526 --> 00:43:03,358
partner with me. And there are so many nice realities

701
00:43:03,454 --> 00:43:06,830
around there, out there that struggle, really, to get

702
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:10,480
exposure because the competition is so high. And now,

703
00:43:10,590 --> 00:43:13,932
I don't know if you feel that, but in Italy, in Europe over the

704
00:43:13,956 --> 00:43:17,276
last 15 years, there has been this shift

705
00:43:17,388 --> 00:43:20,428
from land owners who

706
00:43:20,484 --> 00:43:24,028
previously sold grapes or bulk wine to

707
00:43:24,084 --> 00:43:27,820
bigger wineries now that the new generation is

708
00:43:27,860 --> 00:43:31,196
involved. And then maybe they studied winemaking

709
00:43:31,308 --> 00:43:35,020
studies or marketing or whatever. Now the new

710
00:43:35,060 --> 00:43:38,852
generation say, okay, I don't want to sell bulk wine. I

711
00:43:38,876 --> 00:43:42,708
want to bottle my own wine with my own label. So there's this

712
00:43:42,764 --> 00:43:46,340
new generation of young producers that are

713
00:43:46,380 --> 00:43:49,908
really. I'm happy to. To help out, really. And

714
00:43:50,044 --> 00:43:53,668
yes, I've seen that. I've read that, talked to people like that,

715
00:43:53,724 --> 00:43:57,444
and it's happening here. But at the same time, I want to slap

716
00:43:57,492 --> 00:44:01,284
them in the face and expose them the reality of, again, the difference

717
00:44:01,332 --> 00:44:05,016
between making wine and having a winery and actually needing

718
00:44:05,048 --> 00:44:08,216
to sell it, what is now a complicated,

719
00:44:08,328 --> 00:44:12,024
convoluted market. Well, both you and I live in a

720
00:44:12,032 --> 00:44:15,640
very lucky place because California and Tuscany, I think, are

721
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,660
not so difficult, right, to sell.

722
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,696
Imagine if you are a small

723
00:44:22,768 --> 00:44:26,536
producer from, I don't know, Le Marche

724
00:44:26,568 --> 00:44:29,848
or Umbria or another region not so well known

725
00:44:29,904 --> 00:44:33,472
internationally. In that case, it's really, really challenging.

726
00:44:33,656 --> 00:44:37,248
But I think in Tuscany, if you have a vision,

727
00:44:37,344 --> 00:44:41,168
if you have some entrepreneurial

728
00:44:41,344 --> 00:44:44,900
skills, so not just farming skills,

729
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,300
I think there is a. There is a way to succeed.

730
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,620
We were in. When we were in Cortona, I drove down to Montefalco

731
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,616
to see my good friend Valentino. Valentini. Yeah.

732
00:44:57,728 --> 00:45:01,184
Who in worst case, should just have. Should be a movie star with that name.

733
00:45:01,272 --> 00:45:04,912
That's white wine in Italy. And we had a

734
00:45:04,936 --> 00:45:08,480
wonderful time with him. He couldn't believe we drove all the way from Cortona down

735
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,016
there to see him. But he's been in my shop here a few times. But,

736
00:45:12,088 --> 00:45:15,760
you know, his brand is in America, and in Saga Latino is

737
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,232
a, you know, a unknown grape

738
00:45:19,296 --> 00:45:23,056
here. And we were talking. We were talking

739
00:45:23,088 --> 00:45:26,880
a little bit about expression, words, the wine business and

740
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,686
what people do sometimes. And so I had a customer asked once, I was

741
00:45:30,758 --> 00:45:34,382
actually, I was on a TV show, and the host of the show said,

742
00:45:34,486 --> 00:45:38,094
have you ever had Sargento? And I'm thinking to myself,

743
00:45:38,142 --> 00:45:41,598
sargento. And then I realized they were talking about Saglantino.

744
00:45:41,774 --> 00:45:45,582
And what do you do? Correct. The guy on his own show can't do that.

745
00:45:45,606 --> 00:45:49,246
Right. You know, we're

746
00:45:49,278 --> 00:45:52,814
already at, at 45 minutes here, which is amazing. It's such a wonderful

747
00:45:52,862 --> 00:45:56,398
conversation. Yeah. So what's next? What's your. When's your first trip back

748
00:45:56,454 --> 00:46:00,192
here and what's. And after your diploma pass? Well,

749
00:46:00,216 --> 00:46:03,856
my next is the diploma really. Now I want to focus 100%

750
00:46:03,928 --> 00:46:07,376
on that. And then I have the high season,

751
00:46:07,448 --> 00:46:11,280
touristic season starting in, in May, actually. I have a few

752
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,512
groups coming from the US to, to

753
00:46:14,536 --> 00:46:17,392
Tuscany to spend a week with me or

754
00:46:17,496 --> 00:46:21,152
experiences. So I'm going to be

755
00:46:21,176 --> 00:46:24,816
busy till late September and then, yeah,

756
00:46:24,848 --> 00:46:28,000
I'm planning to organize trips. Now

757
00:46:28,700 --> 00:46:32,532
what I'm trying to do is to combine larger events, like

758
00:46:32,556 --> 00:46:35,908
the ones I told you before, with smaller events because

759
00:46:35,964 --> 00:46:39,172
now all my membership

760
00:46:39,316 --> 00:46:43,124
subscribers become friends in a way because we have such a

761
00:46:43,132 --> 00:46:46,564
close relationship. It's not like an E commerce. You know, I

762
00:46:46,652 --> 00:46:50,452
sometimes I even meet them and so they always invite me.

763
00:46:50,476 --> 00:46:53,842
So I'm planning to sometimes do like smaller wine

764
00:46:53,906 --> 00:46:57,522
tasting either at their places or with their friends and try to

765
00:46:57,546 --> 00:47:01,390
maximize my trip when I'm in the States,

766
00:47:01,770 --> 00:47:04,990
also meeting my current customers and

767
00:47:05,370 --> 00:47:08,706
organizing. Organizing something with them and with their

768
00:47:08,858 --> 00:47:12,562
network. You know, that's an interesting thought. We'll wrap up with this. And

769
00:47:12,586 --> 00:47:15,922
that is people always ask, you know, what do you do about score

770
00:47:15,986 --> 00:47:19,596
suckling and wine enthusiasts and all that? And

771
00:47:19,748 --> 00:47:23,468
they seem to be losing a little traction. They're not as. Not that they're

772
00:47:23,484 --> 00:47:27,280
not reliable, but the concept is, you know, if I taste

773
00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:31,372
that 90 point wine from the Canary Islands and I taste a 90 point

774
00:47:31,396 --> 00:47:35,052
wine from Napa Valley, they're different wines completely. And so the, you

775
00:47:35,076 --> 00:47:38,492
land on this idea that while you, you find one of these

776
00:47:38,596 --> 00:47:42,300
services like suckling or whatever that most aligns with your

777
00:47:42,340 --> 00:47:45,418
palate so you can trust their 90 is going to be in your.

778
00:47:45,564 --> 00:47:49,406
Your a 90 on a cabernet, for instance, is going to be in your

779
00:47:49,478 --> 00:47:52,750
wheelhouse. And that's really what you're doing

780
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:56,542
because you have to trust the wine shop owner and

781
00:47:56,566 --> 00:47:59,870
that our shop, I had a little shop here and I had a very good

782
00:47:59,910 --> 00:48:03,650
buyer who when a person walked in, understood

783
00:48:04,070 --> 00:48:07,822
based on what they drank in the past, what where to take them

784
00:48:07,846 --> 00:48:11,196
in the store and what wines to show them. And that's a talent.

785
00:48:11,318 --> 00:48:14,704
And that's what you're doing basically is you're, you're embedding

786
00:48:14,752 --> 00:48:18,256
your skill set in their home.

787
00:48:18,408 --> 00:48:22,224
To find them the things that they feel like is a good representation

788
00:48:22,272 --> 00:48:26,000
of what is supposed to be, which is really your primary function, and that

789
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,808
they're going to like it. And so I'm impressed. It's. It's gonna

790
00:48:29,824 --> 00:48:33,568
be fun to see where this goes. And of course, if we're

791
00:48:33,584 --> 00:48:37,352
anywhere near Tuscany, we're going to Sicily next month. But

792
00:48:37,416 --> 00:48:40,820
that I'm not going to pass through Tuscany to get there.

793
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,416
We would love to come out and taste some wine with you. Sicily. It's

794
00:48:45,528 --> 00:48:49,272
on my bucket list. I'm thinking that this model of the

795
00:48:49,296 --> 00:48:53,144
Toscana Wine Club might evolve in a different way in the

796
00:48:53,152 --> 00:48:56,856
future. And Sicily is on top of my list.

797
00:48:56,928 --> 00:49:00,616
Yeah. Their wines are, you know, replicating this

798
00:49:00,768 --> 00:49:04,020
model with the Sicilia Wine Club.

799
00:49:06,670 --> 00:49:10,262
People would like that, I think. Yeah. Also, I know

800
00:49:10,366 --> 00:49:13,494
so many people in the US with some kind of Sicilian

801
00:49:13,542 --> 00:49:17,238
origin. And so they were really

802
00:49:17,374 --> 00:49:21,222
enthusiastic about the idea of me picking for wines for

803
00:49:21,246 --> 00:49:24,710
them from boutique wineries in Sicily. So that's one of

804
00:49:24,750 --> 00:49:28,470
my projects for the future. Not

805
00:49:28,510 --> 00:49:31,990
this year, but maybe next year. Well, good luck with

806
00:49:32,030 --> 00:49:35,862
it now. And such a pleasure to meet you and speak with you about this.

807
00:49:35,886 --> 00:49:38,050
And I'm sure we'll do it again one day.

808
00:49:39,310 --> 00:49:42,886
Let's just make sure we do it when we. When we start the Sicilian version.

809
00:49:42,918 --> 00:49:46,246
We'll have a yes masculaze together or something.

810
00:49:46,398 --> 00:49:49,890
Yes. Cheers. And I will invite you next time I'm going to be

811
00:49:50,190 --> 00:49:53,910
in the US for events. Well, I. I do owe my

812
00:49:53,950 --> 00:49:57,456
brother a visit in Lincoln. I haven't been there for years,

813
00:49:57,608 --> 00:50:01,216
and he has a wonderful family. Both his daughter and son live there and married

814
00:50:01,248 --> 00:50:04,720
with children and all that. And I would encourage them and

815
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,160
even treat them to your seminar if you make it there,

816
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,680
so. Deal. Cheers. Thank you, Paul.